LGA 2066 - what comes after the x299 and when

[boed]

Hello,

The specs on the X299 were obsolete before the boards were on the market but it seems to be the only option for someone like me who needs LOTS of PCIe lanes. I'm not sure if it the chipset that makes it so obsolete or the processor or a combination of the two. I have a 16x video card, an 8x raid controller and an 8x network card.

I'm curious if there is any talk of a new Chipset or an updated 2066 processor in the near future. I can't find much on them but there seems to be plenty on the mainstream processors and chipset however I don't think they are going to put enough PCIe lanes on the next main stream processors. And unfortunately it seems like motherboards with the PLX chip haven't been released since the GA 170 motherboards a couple of years ago.

 

[Bouowmx]

Is there an issue? You can run the 3 expansion cards with a processor with 44 PCI Express lanes (Core i9), without reduction of bandwidth, or one with 28 lanes (Core i7), with graphics card reduced to x8.

LGA 2066 (R4) will be updated with Cascade Lake, 14 nm ++ revision of Skylake-X, coming next year. It will be a small improvement: a small frequency increase (especially needed for the mesh) or power reduction.

The successor will likely be Ice Lake-SP (new architecture, new socket, new motherboard), coming 2019.

 

[boed]

Just with the nature of the motherboards and the features. We'll just compare two processors I'd pick the i9-7900X ($960) vs the i7-7740X ($329) -

The i7740x draws less power and operates at a higher speed and costs far less
The i9-7900X has more cache good
The i9-7900X has more cores - probably of little help as most software has less marginal value as you increase the number of processors- perhaps 5 years from now programmers will be more inclined to take better advantage of more processors than they do currently.

Certainly a wider variety of z370 motherboards to choose from and the 390 may be out soon which has some minor updates over the 370. I definitely want an extended motherboard for space, cooling and card options - less of the x299 boards to choose from for those.

 

[Bouowmx]

4-core Kaby Lake-X Core i5-7640X and i7-7740X are nonsensical, given 6-core Coffee Lake-S (i5-8400 and i7-8700K) exists. In addition, Kaby Lake-X only has 16 PCI Express lanes: x8/8 for two expansion cards directly to CPU, and x4 for the remaining one to share with PCH.

I'm still failing to see the exact issue.

H370? That doesn't exist yet.

"Extended" motherboard as in EATX? This form factor is a niche, typically reserved for pinnacle motherboards.

Card options? Practically all Z370 motherboards, except those with slots for 4 2-slot GPUs, follow:

1|-    1 or 0 to PCH
2|---- 16 (or 8 if slot 5 is used) to CPU
3|     0
4|-    1 or 0 to PCH
5|---- 16 physical, 8 electrical to CPU
6|-    1 or 0 to PCH
7|---- 16 physical, 4 electical to PCH

X299 is a hodge-podge. For 44-lane processors: Some are 8/8/8/8 for 4 2-slot GPUs. Some ASRock are 8/8/16/8 (but only allowing 3 2-slot GPUs). Some ASUS are 16/8/8 (only 3 slots to CPU).
More options for expansion slot layout from X299 than Z370.

 

[boed]

My issue is my needs are not yours. I think you are looking at it from what you want on your motherboard. Your response will be - that is a very niche system you are building. I'm not sure what more to say other than - yes, it is. However these issues can apply to people with multiple video cards just as easily.

There are a number of z370 motherboards that fit all my needs other than having enough PCIe resources which go in hand with the processor.

To repeat a 4 core CPU runs cooler, demands less power and runs at a higher frequency, is cheaper and so is the motherboard that would go with it. I'd like those things. Just not enough PCIe lanes

The CPUs for the x299 motherboards only have one advantage for my needs other than the PCIe lanes - more cache.

All 3 of my cards generate a good deal of heat - so much so that I put a fan under my raid card. So an extended motherboard gives me more space for that sort of config.

I want two on board nics as I'm often configuring firewalls and switches of other networks and I connect my system to my firewall via one of the 1gb nics.

I prefer the creative on board sound for compatibility.

I need an absurd number of USB ports in the back for many devices.

All of these are available on boards like the Gigabyte gaming system - NOT available in the x299 variety.

So again why you may not need what I need, doesn't mean it isn't an issue for me.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Looked into ThreadRipper?

 

[Smoblikat]

Does it have to be a "modern" platform?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157343

Ive got one of those, I used to run 4XHD6970's in it, plus it has a built in LIS SAS controller, might even mean you could run without your RAID card.

 

[boed]

LOL - you are in the same boat as me. I have the Gigabyte z170 ga1 gaming motherboard with the PLX chipset. I'm building a second PC with nearly identical specs as far as the amount of equipment (RAID controller, 16 3.5" drives, 1 SSD, 10g nic (4port), gaming video card - all newer models) and was hoping not to use the 2 year old platform of my current system but can't find anything new with the PLX.

I would be fine with a new motherboard with the PLX chip as I'm usually not gaming when transferring vast amounts of data between my computers. I just can't find any new motherboards with the PLX chip - it is a shame.

 

[boed]

ThreadRipper

I have not but I will right now - thanks.

I just looked - an excellent number of PCIe lanes and the price is very good for the 1900X 8-Core! The biggest issue for me is the TDP. I'm trying to keep my case as cool as possible due to the insane number of internal components. I'll look into it further - thanks again - my fist PC was a 386-40 by amd

 

[LTC8K6]

Keep in mind that having your GPU at 8X pcie will have no noticeable effect on it's performance.

 

[boed]

I believe that is currently correct, I do however currently have a super fast RAID card 8x and a 8x 4 port 10gig nic in addition to the 16x video card and may eventually add a second video card.

 

[Topweasel]

I believe that is currently correct, I do however currently have a super fast RAID card 8x and a 8x 4 port 10gig nic in addition to the 16x video card and may eventually add a second video card.

Then the answer is going to be a 6+ 299 or 8+ Threadripper, or a Xeon workstation. Actually the workstation might be the real answer. It's much more expensive but you could get a 4c 5122 with competitively fast cores and 48 lanes and it's at ~100w.

But really keep in mind with TR while it due to using two cores idles a bit high the 180w is when you have all available cores running at all core turbo speeds. So assuming it's everything else. The 299 take it a step farther, that power usage is usually only reached when all cores are running at max load with AVX-512 code.

As for keeping the temps in the case in control. I would suggest an AIO water cooler, that is setup to vent instead of being an air inlet. It would raise the CPU temps a little. But it keeps the CPU from contributing much to the inside of the case so the only issue would be keeping up with temps in the room. This is how I had my 3930K and Ryzen 7 setup.

 

[boed]

Thanks - for some reason in all the TR specs I could find it said 180 idle and 180 max tdp. I appreciate the updated info.

I'll look at the 4C 5122 - not a CPU I believe I've looked at or even know what socket yet but it is definitely something for me to look at. I like learning new things!

I could not find any gaming motherboards that work with the 5122.

 

[Topweasel]

Thanks - for some reason in all the TR specs I could find it said 180 idle and 180 max tdp. I appreciate the updated info.

I'll look at the 4C 5122 - not a CPU I believe I've looked at or even know what socket yet but it is definitely something for me to look at. I like learning new things!

I could not find any gaming motherboards that work with the 5122.

What makes a gaming motherboard? It's just a marketing tactic. The X line of boards uses a chipset that just is a rebrand of server/workstation line of chipsets (or at least was up to and including X79). Epyc doesn't even have a chipset and TR just uses the X370 stuff for the extra USB/SATA options while the rest is managed for the CPU.

You are asking for out of market use cases. It means using out of market configurations. That doesn't mean it isn't just as good or maybe even better in some respects it just means that the target for the product doesn't mean it's sold advertising that specific task. So the real question is what do you need from your "gaming" motherboard? Then we can see if their is a workstation board that fills that roll.

The reality is that your desires. Limited CPU power (but still fast) with lower power usage, while supporting a large amount of CPU driven PCIe, is not a realistic goal as many of the things get bundled with others because it doesn't make as much sense on another CPU.

For example there is almost no reason for AMD and Intel to develop for mass market a 4 core CPU with 40+ PCIe lanes. Because these are high volume offerings. But whether it's the mobile market, the general consumer computers, or even simple business computers that count for 90 of these sales, adding those lanes make the CPU more complex, bigger, and more expensive either decreasing margin, or increasing sales price. As the use case shifts to HEDT or servers, you can start to include these niche services because you can pass on the extra expense to people who are willing to pay for it as the cost for the performance. In this case the extreme niche of getting a well clocked 4c CPU, that doesn't need 140-180w to run at full speed but has the full allotment of PCIe lanes are so niche that Intel feels that they can charge 400% more for it than a higher clocked CPU, with a third of the lanes. This is on a platform 2-3x the price to begin with.

The good news is that the resources are there you just have to look for it in different spots that isn't marketed for your specific use case.

 

[boed]

To me a gaming motherboard has a great integrated sound card and ideally 2 onboard nics and a number of 16x pci slots.

 

[Topweasel]

To me a gaming motherboard has a great integrated sound card and ideally 2 onboard nics and a number of 16x pci slots.

More likely to get 2 nics on a workstation board and basically anything not meant to be put on a rack has sound ports.

 

[StefanR5R]

I would be fine with a new motherboard with the PLX chip as I'm usually not gaming when transferring vast amounts of data between my computers. I just can't find any new motherboards with the PLX chip - it is a shame.

Supermicro X11SAT still has got a PLX switch, thereby supports 16+8+8 lanes of PCIe from a socket 1151 CPU. It also has 2 GbE NICs, but perhaps not as many USB ports as you would like to have. There is an informative block diagram of the board in the manual.

 

[rchunter]

A lot of the Asus WS boards have PLX chips on them, and multiple nics.
I haven't seen too many mainstream gaming motherboards with 2 ethernet ports.

 

[StefanR5R]

SuperO C7Z270-PG has got a PLX switch too, for up to 8+8+8+8 lane configs from socket 1151 (block diagram). Two GbE NICs too, and a bunch of USB ports (rear ports).