LF advice on upgrading my CPU for gaming

[depotman]

Right now I do a bit of gaming on my PC. Mostly playing WoW. Lately the comp bogs down on the fps from time to time. A good bit of the time I can run 50-60 fps, but sometimes it creeps down to 10-12fps, and occasionally down to 5.

I know what I'm doing in game or how many addons in game I am running can effect that, but I would like to build a comp that will have no problems no matter what is going on in game.

Current specs are:

Processor - Intel Core 2 CPU 4400 @ 2.0 GHZ. (over clocked to 2.4 GHZ)
Motherboard - Abit IB9
Memory - 2 GB Corsair DDR2-667 PC5300, 1 GB DDR2-533 PC4200
Power Supply - Enermax Infiniti 720W
Video Card - ATI Radeon HD3870 running at 500mhz core and 1200 mhz memory.

CPU, DRAM Clock, and PCI Express can all be overclocked with the Mobo Software.

Ultimately I am willing to dump some money into the PC, and buy a whole new mobo, cpu, memory, and hard drive. But I was wondering if I could keep the mobo and upgrade the processor (and a few other things) to something more stout and have it be effective for my needs. The mobo will support the following -

CPU - Designed for Intel® LGA 775 processors with 1066/800MHz FSB support 2006FMB & 05A. Support Intel Core™ 2 Extreme & Core™ 2 Duo & Pentium® D & Pentium®4 & Celeron® D Processors

Chipset - Intel® P965 / ICH8 Chipset


Memory - 4 X 240-pin DIMM sockets support max. memory capacity 8GB. Supports Dual channel DDR2 800/667/533 Un-buffered Non-ECC memory

Here is a link to the full mobo specs - http://www.abit.com.tw/page/en/mothe...&fMTYPE=LGA775

Right now I know my ram is a little weak at 3 GB's and having a slower speed at 533mhz isn't helping. I'll wait to see if I need a new Mobo/CPU to address that.

I guess my question is, is the mobo decent enough to keep it and upgrade the CPU, and memory and get pretty decent gaming out of it. I am thinking my Video card is decent enough at this point. Hard drive wise I'm not sure what the specs are. Currently running XP, with full version of 64 bit windows seven ready to install when I get a fresh hard drive.

If trying to keep some of my components isn't an option can anyone point me to a decent Mobo/CPU/Ram/HD setup. I apologize on all the questions, I know I could try and research a lot of the questions listed above, but I like the info given out by members on this site and wanted to see what other gamers opinions are. Especially if they currently play WoW.

 

[ZipSpeed]

You'll see some tangible gains by upgrading your video card to something like a 5770 or even 460 GTX but you'll be bottlenecked at the CPU for most modern games. I had a quick look at the latest BIOS update for your motherboard and it looks like it supports the older Kentsfield quad but not the Yorkfield quads. If you're adamant with not upgrading your entire platform, see if you can find a cheap Q6600 (preferably with a G0 stepping) and overclock it to 3 GHz.

My advice, retire your existing rig and start fresh. Hold out till next year when Intel and AMD release their new CPU platforms and get a fancy 6000 series Radeon or Nvidia equaivalent.

 

[depotman]

ZipSpeed, thanks for the reply/advice. Much appreciated. I am definitely willing to drop some money and upgrade. Possibly around $500-$750 or so maybe some more. Any suggestions on a gaming setup, not really wanting to wait on this. I Mostly play WoW.

 

[ZipSpeed]

I'd go with a i5 750, P55 motherboard and 4 GB DDR3 RAM. You can recycle the rest of your components. The Radeon 6000 series is literally right around the corner so I'd personally hold out for just a bit longer before you get a video card.

If you want to go AMD, go with something like a Phenom II X4 955, 965 or 970, 890GX/FX motherboard and 4 GB DDR3 RAM.

 

[Pantlegz]

I'd go with a i5 750, P55 motherboard and 4 GB DDR3 RAM. You can recycle the rest of your components. The Radeon 6000 series is literally right around the corner so I'd personally hold out for just a bit longer before you get a video card.

If you want to go AMD, go with something like a Phenom II X4 955, 965 or 970, 890GX/FX motherboard and 4 GB DDR3 RAM.

The only issue with that is you can get an i7 930 from microcenter(if you have one close) for less than the i5 750 from newegg. However that would bump up the price of the other components a little but I think he
could get it all in his price range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813188051
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231223
plus 200 from the cpu would be the bottom of his price range, could possibly get a new gtx460 and be at the high side of his range. Or he could keep his current video card, and possibly looking for used gtx 260 or 2 later on if needed.

 

[ZipSpeed]

The only issue with that is you can get an i7 930 from microcenter(if you have one close) for less than the i5 750 from newegg. However that would bump up the price of the other components a little but I think he
could get it all in his price range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813188051
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231223
plus 200 from the cpu would be the bottom of his price range, could possibly get a new gtx460 and be at the high side of his range. Or he could keep his current video card, and possibly looking for used gtx 260 or 2 later on if needed.

Definitely. Especially with the new platforms coming next year, I think we'll start to see some fire sales to clear out inventory. OP, our recommendations are just guidelines. Work with what you can find the cheapest and gives the best bang for the buck.

Personally, I'm going to take advantage of these lower prices. Myself, I'm looking at the i7 950 and the Asus Sabertooth X58 loaded with 12 GB of RAM.

 

[Soccerman06]

Id avoid AMD's processors for now since they arent very good with WoW, who knows maybe BD will be good.

 

[Medikit]

If you want to save money:

-Upgrade your video card first.
-If that doesn't help then pick up someone's Core2Duo for sale: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2112712

Throw out your 533 ram.



Here is your upgrade guide:
http://www.abit.com.tw/cpu-support-list/mb/intel_p965_ib9.htm

 

[fffblackmage]

The only issue with that is you can get an i7 930 from microcenter(if you have one close) for less than the i5 750 from newegg. However that would bump up the price of the other components a little but I think he
could get it all in his price range.

Why not just get the i5-760 from microcenter? The i7-930 isn't any better for gaming anyways.

 

[depotman]

If you want to save money:

-Upgrade your video card first.
-If that doesn't help then pick up someone's Core2Duo for sale: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2112712

Throw out your 533 ram.



Here is your upgrade guide:
http://www.abit.com.tw/cpu-support-list/mb/intel_p965_ib9.htm

Thanks for the links. I think what I am going to do initally (cuz I will keep this comp for my wife after these upgrades, and probably buy new components later) is upgrade my CPU to a Q6600 (65NM).

The above thread is for an Core2Duo E8400 (45NM) and is a decent buy and one I would consider. But another person on this site suggested -

45nm chips will *not* run on P965 boards reliably, most will not run at all. So no E8xxx.

The E8400 is a 45NM Chipset so I'm not sure what to think after the above comment.

I know for sure I am going to buy a newer video card. Looking at an HD4870, GTX460, or a HD5770. I will also upgrade to 4 gigs of DDR2 800 memory and change out the older stuff.

A side question would be that Windows 7 shouldn't have a problem running any of this hardware, right?

Thanks.

 

[Pantlegz]

Why not just get the i5-760 from microcenter? The i7-930 isn't any better for gaming anyways.

You're not saving all that much money and p55's SLI/x-fire options suck. There are few boards that will do 16/8 and they're no cheaper than x58. In the end you're looking at like 30 or so less and cutting out any mutli gpu option for the furture.

 

[fffblackmage]

You're not saving all that much money and p55's SLI/x-fire options suck. There are few boards that will do 16/8 and they're no cheaper than x58. In the end you're looking at like 30 or so less and cutting out any mutli gpu option for the furture.

8x PCIe doesn't limit graphics card performance and xfire/SLI isn't necessary anyways.
There are P55 mobos from $100-$150. Most X58 mobos hover around $200 or more. In total, you're saving roughly $100 with LGA1156 and ditching xfire/SLI.

OP is talking about playing WoW. You don't need xfire/SLI just for WoW. You'll also avoid power issues, heat issues, and any potential for xfire/SLI working improperly.

 

[Arkaign]

Thanks for the links. I think what I am going to do initally (cuz I will keep this comp for my wife after these upgrades, and probably buy new components later) is upgrade my CPU to a Q6600 (65NM).

The above thread is for an Core2Duo E8400 (45NM) and is a decent buy and one I would consider. But another person on this site suggested -



The E8400 is a 45NM Chipset so I'm not sure what to think after the above comment.

I know for sure I am going to buy a newer video card. Looking at an HD4870, GTX460, or a HD5770. I will also upgrade to 4 gigs of DDR2 800 memory and change out the older stuff.

A side question would be that Windows 7 shouldn't have a problem running any of this hardware, right?

Thanks.

Yes, look at the above link. Instead of 'OK' for the E8xxx series (and a couple of other high-wattage parts), it has --. Meaning E8x00 will definitively NOT work. P965 predates 45nm processors significantly (predates all but original 65nm E6x00 series actually), and I've never heard of a success story with P965 w/45nm cpu.

 

[Arkaign]

Q6600 will work though If you can find one cheap enough, it will be a solid proc for you. Hopefully 3.0ghz or so will be possible, the P965 wasn't as OC friendly as the later chipsets. An E6700 would be even better, and they seem to be about the same price. They are all the superior G0 stepping instead of B3 (run a bit cooler, easier to OC, higher default mutli = less stress on mobo/ram to high 3ghz+). I've seen them sell for $130-$150 on fleabay, just have to watch all the auctions roll by. Or perhaps a valiant AT:FS/FT participant might have one to score.

 

[depotman]

Sweet, thanks guys. Much appreciated for the help. So for upgrading this comp I will look for a Q6600 or an E6700. Upgrade all the ram to DDR2 800 PC6400 and grab a new video card.

Then for a new platform I'm thinking a I5 760 (can be found fairly cheap right now), just need to find a decent mobo for it.

 

[Sp12]

Don't spend more than ~100 on a used Q6600. Much past that and you can just switch out to an AMD DDR2 mobo+Athlon X4 from MC/Fry's.

 

[Arkaign]

I think Arkaign meant a Q6700, because an E6700 is a dual core CPU and not all that much faster than your E4400 (well, it is, sort of, but the Q6600/Q6700 will provide better gains in modern games that can use >2 cores)

Yep. Sorry about that. Yes, definitely :

Q6600/Q6700 are the only reasonably affordable and common 65nm processors compatible with OP's mobo that will provide adequate to good performance in gaming for a while yet. 8MB L2 and very high IPC = win at gaming. Even new PhII Quads perform about equal clock for clock compared to Kentsfield, although they're certainly easier to take to 3.5ghz+.

 

[Arkaign]

Don't spend more than ~100 on a used Q6600. Much past that and you can just switch out to an AMD DDR2 mobo+Athlon X4 from MC/Fry's.

Why go through all that hassle though, just to stick with DDR2? Athlon X4 is slower clock for clock than Q6x00 as well. You'd need to clock the X4 at about 3.8ghz to equal Q6600 @ 3.25ghz in most games. The small L2 cache and lack of L3 cache compared to PhII really penalizes the Athlon X2/X3/X4 series, although they are still a bargain for many people.

You can draw the conclusions pretty easily :

Kentsfield vs. Q9xx0 12MB Quads = Q9xx0 12MB clock for clock about ~5% faster. Pretty much dead heat.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=173287

Q9xx0 12MB Quads vs. Phenom II = Q9xx0 about ~5% faster clock for clock (eg; 2.66ghz Q9450 is = to 2.8Ghz PhII 920)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2702/18

And finally, Phenom II vs. Athlon X4 : The Athlon X4 loses soundly in gaming to Phenom II X3 clock for clock

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2836/8

Despite it's age, the Q6xxx series is no joke. It's better than the gimped Q8xxx series, and the cache-hobbled lower-tier Q9xxx series. The Phenom II X4s are approximately equal clock for clock, the Athlon X4s are much slower clock for clock, and of course the i5/i7 owns them all (for a big price).

It all comes down to the same bottom line though : OP best bet for a drop-in solid gaming CPU is Q6xxx series. Athlon X4 would be a downgrade from that, unless clocked VERY high. Phenom II would be slightly better imho due to the ease of hitting high 3ghz range, but again, big hassle with buying new mobo, probable OS reload, etc. Unless OP gets SLI/CF GTX480/5870 or better, he's going to be GPU limited with a very solid CPU like Q6700 for a good while yet.

 

[RussianSensation]

Just get a new videocard for now. Once SB ships, get the 1155 socket. There is almost no reason in getting AM3+ or 1156/1366 mobos at this point, less then 2 months away from a brand new socket and 20% faster architecture from Core i7.

Go for Nvidia, since it runs faster in WOW. GTX460 1GB is a good price/performance card.

 

[Arkaign]

^^ RS, I would normally agree in most cases, but the E4400 @ 2.4Ghz (2MB L2, 800Mhz FSB stock) is just too old. Those slowdowns he's getting in WoW are most likely the CPU, as it's not a terribly graphics intensive title.

The combo of

GTX460
Q6600 or Q6700
4GB DDR2-800

would be a solid setup that will be well balanced moving forward. He also mentions that although he mainly plays WoW, he plays other titles as well. If OP picks up SC2, he's sunk. Many other new titles will also be pretty wobbly on an E4400. General system performance in Windows as well will pick up nicely with the QC. Even though those chips are circa 2007, it's still competitive when OC'd with most stock new processors. As the Q6x00 are basically the end of the line for a lot of mobos, he could probably resell it for what he paid for it pretty easily if he decides SB rebuild is a good idea.

 

[depotman]

Thanks for the replies guys, excellent advice and much appreciated.

I should be picking up a GTX460 soon, but only a 768mb card. As most 768mb cards are a good bit cheaper then the 1 GB cards.

Next step is to find a reasonably priced (under $100) Q6600. Hard to find right now.

I have 6 gigs of DDR PC6400 800mhz Ram on the way. So setup will eventually be

• Q6600 with Abit IB9 MB
• 6 GB DDR2 PC 6400 800mhz Ram
• GTX460 768MB
• 2 250GB 7200 Sata HDD/Windows 7/650W Enermax PS

That should do for a while for gaming mostly playing WoW.

 

[jaydee]

Thanks for the replies guys, excellent advice and much appreciated.

I should be picking up a GTX460 soon, but only a 768mb card. As most 768mb cards are a good bit cheaper then the 1 GB cards.

Next step is to find a reasonably priced (under $100) Q6600. Hard to find right now.

I have 6 gigs of DDR PC6400 800mhz Ram on the way. So setup will eventually be

• Q6600 with Abit IB9 MB
• 6 GB DDR2 PC 6400 800mhz Ram
• GTX460 768MB
• 2 250GB 7200 Sata HDD/Windows 7/650W Enermax PS

That should do for a while for gaming mostly playing WoW.

Get your GTX460 and see how your games play. Although I recommend the 1GB, because there's a difference more than actual memory. I think the 1GB version has more SP's and maybe a faster clock. It's somewhat poor naming convention on nVidia's part to name them both "GTX460".

I'm almost certain you don't need 6GB of RAM, and older DDR2 at current prices... not a good investment IMO. And why would you buy another PSU? 2 250GB SATA drives, why? By the time you're into all these other upgrades, you might as well have bought a whole new PC.

I'd say don't buy anything else until you get your new video card and try that out with all your previous components. You might be happy with the performance right there. If not, go for a Q6600.

 

[darckhart]

personally, i would hunt for that q6600. you will see tangible difference in performance.

for the video card: as the new amd cards come out now, see how the market will react over the next 2-4 weeks before getting a new card. you may end up with the gtx460 anyway, but you could possibly get a better deal on the 1gb version.

 

[RussianSensation]

The combo of

GTX460
Q6600 or Q6700
4GB DDR2-800

would be a solid setup that will be well balanced moving forward. He also mentions that although he mainly plays WoW, he plays other titles as well. If OP picks up SC2, he's sunk.

Right but Q6600 would need to be overclocked to 3.4ghz or so (I had one and it was still much slower compared to i7). Plus its lack of cache will still hurt it in Starcraft 2 or Supreme Commander 2 (which ever one you meant hehe).

So think about this - Q6600 = $100, 4GB DDR2-800 = the same price as 4GB of DDR3 if not more. So you are looking to throw $180+ into aging components with just 2 months away from SB! Although in his case, I would just sell his CPU+Mobo+Ram and add $50-75 from those 3 components towards a new system.

So $180+$50 = $230 = new 1155 mobo + ram. Just need to get a new cpu and you'll have a system probably 50-70% faster than a stock Q6600.

By the time you're into all these other upgrades, you might as well have bought a whole new PC.

Exactly. I suppose in 2-3 years DDR2 ram may become very valuable in resale when it will be scarce.

 

[dehemke]

I have the system you are thinking about building

Q6600 @ 3ghz
460 GTX 768
4 GB Ram

So, if you want some comparison benchmarks with what you run today, let me know.