Lets the fiscal cliff happen! It'll be better for America!

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
After two years of endless debate and a national election, Democrats and Republicans on Thursday found themselves right where they started -- blaming each other for stagnant negotiations on taxes and government spending.

sheesh.. we're still stuck in 2010.

like peeling off a band aid, it's better to peel it qucikly then prolong the pain.

just do nothing and let the auto spending cuts + tax increases happen!
else we'll be fighting the same stupid fight till the 2014 elections.

PROGRESS! it's better than being bogged down w/the same stuff for FOUR years!
and w/letting the fiscal cliff hapen, there will be new stuff rising to the top to get the limelight.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Lets the fiscal cliff happen! It'll be better for America!

Agreed. I only wish the cuts were even larger, and we added the Republican plan to limit deductions on top of the tax rate increases.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Lets the fiscal cliff happen! It'll be better for America!

After two years of endless debate and a national election, Democrats and Republicans on Thursday found themselves right where they started -- blaming each other for stagnant negotiations on taxes and government spending.

sheesh.. we're still stuck in 2010.

like peeling off a band aid, it's better to peel it qucikly then prolong the pain.

just do nothing and let the auto spending cuts + tax increases happen!
else we'll be fighting the same stupid fight till the 2014 elections.

PROGRESS! it's better than being bogged down w/the same stuff for FOUR years!
and w/letting the fiscal cliff hapen, there will be new stuff rising to the top to get the limelight.

Yes, let it happen.

This way Real Americans can see the destruction being done by Republicans by having their pockets even more deeply affected.

Hopefully it will be the end of the Republican party.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,300
4,960
136
Yes, let it happen.

This way Real Americans can see the destruction being done by Democrats by having their pockets even more deeply affected.

Hopefully it will be the end of the Democratic party.

I fixed that for you ^^^

Over spending bastards.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
The fiscal cliff is so strange. You look at the last time we had a crisis like this, 2011, and the agreement that came out of it was overcomplicated and odd. A supercommittee to find a real solution? A combination of spending cuts and tax increases that nobody favors if said committee fails?

I don't see how a Republican looked at that and said 'You know what? This is way better than increasing taxes on the top 2%'

I don't see how a Democrat said 'You know what? Let's put a gun to our own heads if we can't get Republicans to agree with us.'

Weird.. just weird that it even passed.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I agree with this commentary.
Conservatives are worried that the negotiations that will begin this week to avoid the “fiscal cliff” will end in disaster. Tax increases that will weaken the economy could be combined with spending cuts that never materialize in an agreement that will leave many Republicans — especially those who have signed the “no net new taxes” pledge promoted by Americans for Tax Reform — vulnerable to public outrage, and indeed to primary challenges in the midterm elections.

The way to avoid that outcome may be for conservatives to insist on the transparency and openness that Barack Obama has spent much of his career promoting but has almost never delivered in practice. The White House has asserted false claims of executive privilege to avoid questions on the Justice Department’s Fast and Furious gun-running scandal. The Washington Post reported last year that a large number of requests for public records elicited no material at all from the administration. The same Barack Obama who as a 2008 candidate promised that health-care negotiations would be shown on C-SPAN instead cobbled together the abomination of Obamacare behind closed doors.

Many old Washington hands recall that Republicans agreed on tax-increase-for-spending-cuts deals in 1982 under Ronald Reagan and in 1990 under George H. W. Bush. These deals politically damaged the party in the short run, and they also proved to be bad policy. The 1982 budget deal, which promised seven dollars in spending cuts for every three dollars in tax increases, was never honored. Congress agreed to less than 27 cents in spending cuts for every dollar of tax increases, and President Reagan came to bitterly regret his decision to approve the deal. Ed Meese, Reagan’s senior counselor at the time and later his attorney general, recalls that the 1982 deal “was the worst domestic-policy mistake of the Reagan administration.Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, the top Republican on the Senate Budget Committee today, has argued that transparency will help conservatives avoid the worst possible budget outcomes. “Secrecy cements the status quo: more spending, more debt, more runaway government,” he said this month in a news release. “It is the enemy of accountability, change, and reform. We cannot simply rush through some secret deal that no one can amend, alter, review, scrutinize, or dispute.” He thinks that Congress needs to take at least a week to debate any deal and offer amendments, and that it needs to make the proposal available on the Internet for public review: “It is time to try the one thing that hasn’t been tried: open, public process on the Senate floor.”

Americans for Tax Reform’s founder, Grover Norquist, who originated the anti-tax-increase pledge, says that having an honest, open debate will promote political accountability. “The party that doesn’t want the budget debate to be transparent can be held to account,” he told me. “The American people should get to see the sausage being made and get to read the contract before it’s signed. They shouldn’t have to wait a year for Bob Woodward to write a book about what really happened behind closed doors.”

But calling for transparency isn’t enough. Democrats have every incentive not to agree to transparency, but conservatives should not let the issue fall by the wayside. They must insist on an open process as the fiscal cliff approaches.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/333990/transparency-walk-walk-mr-president-john-fund
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Yes, let it happen.

This way Real Americans can see the destruction being done by Democrats by having their pockets even more deeply affected.

Hopefully it will be the end of the Democratic party.



I fixed that for you ^^^

Over spending bastards.

Democrats didn't start two multi trillion dollar false wars.

Over spending Republican bastards.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Yes, let it happen.

This way Real Americans can see the destruction being done by Democrats by having their pockets even more deeply affected.

Hopefully it will be the end of the Democratic party.





Democrats didn't start two multi trillion dollar false wars.

Over spending Republican bastards.

Or the Bush tax cuts or Medicare part D which ALL added TRILLIONS to our deficit. I love how Rightists just kind of conviently forget this....

Oh I agree let's go over the Fiscal cliff and then the Republicants in Congress will take the hit. :D
 
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Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
0
76

Of course you do, God forbid you actually thought for yourself or did any research to the contrary of your God/party.

The simple truth here is that many Americans no longer give a shit about what the right or left is doing and are just waiting for a reason to make huge changes. You can see it all around the country with millions of educated workers making hourly wages working at typically uneducated jobs, with no insurance or pensions, no vacations, no sick days, basically working as glorified ditch diggers after spending years and thousands of dollars trying to avoid the very life they are living.

The sick thing is most Americans would be OK with it, but they see that all these companies are raking in record profits year after year whilst paying some prepubescent kid in Malaysia or somewhere pennies on the dollar to stitch the shoes together or whatever. I mean these companies have sold out this country in lieu of a bunch of "shareholders" without the least concern of what it is doing to our nation's infrastructure or the impact it might have on our government.

I feel bad for the people still on the right honestly, because it is clear they are not paying attention and are getting their information through what is basically a lying propaganda machine that would tell them we are defending our UN building in Lybia if World War 3 broke out. And the really sad conclusion to all of this is that if our President was a Caucasian none of this would be happening, but because he is half-black the right feels like they can be the small-minded racist pricks that so many of their supporters are. As much as electing Obama did to push race relations forward in this country, the Republicans have done 10 times more to push it right back to the 1940's.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
126
I expect we will go over the cliff and then Republicans and democrats will both declare vistory as they finally agree to a plan. They will each claim that the other party allowed taxes to increase and they each lowered taxes for their target group.

I don't believe the fiscal cliff will be so bad. It may reduce growth a bit, back down to < 1% GDP, but it will not be another 2008 crises. The fiscal cliff is probebly a good thing and the only way we can reduce our debt. The only problem is it doesn't cut entitlements enough.
 
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zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Equivocating Republicans with Democrats on this issue was valid in days gone by. However, Republicans today are the ones who are currently trying to cut spending.

The financial situation we are in is in part because of Republican actions from "days gone by", so what they're currently "trying" to do couldn't matter less in a discussion of why we're where we are.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,213
14
81
The financial situation we are in is in part because of Republican actions from "days gone by", so what they're currently "trying" to do couldn't matter less in a discussion of why we're where we are.

Don't forget the very same people in the Republican party who ran up the Credit Card but now all of a sudden became "Fiscally Conservative". What a joke!
 
Last edited:
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
The financial situation we are in is in part because of Republican actions from "days gone by", so what they're currently "trying" to do couldn't matter less in a discussion of why we're where we are.
Then I misunderstood your post...my apologies.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
0
76
Equivocating Republicans with Democrats on this issue was valid in days gone by. However, Republicans today are the ones who are currently trying to cut spending.

Since when? Since Obama took office? Get real. Stop being a fan and start using your brain.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Yes, let it happen.

This way Real Americans can see the destruction being done by Republicans by having their pockets even more deeply affected.

Hopefully it will be the end of the Republican party.

Cutting Gov spending and mild raise in taxes (Pres. Clinton levels), which by the way are still well within the Reagan/Conservative Trickle Down rates, is going to show the Destuction done by Republicans?

There is dumb, there is really dumb, and then there is you.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
The financial situation we are in is in part because of Republican actions from "days gone by", so what they're currently "trying" to do couldn't matter less in a discussion of why we're where we are.

That's the problem with Gov. Once they think they have successfully blamed whoever is responsible for the problem, they think their job is done. The problem still remains.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Yes because the last increase of taxes on upper income earners was sooooo devestating to the economy last time!

And to think we are dicking around about just going back to those rates.

You must have missed this part.
The way to avoid that outcome may be for conservatives to insist on the transparency and openness that Barack Obama has spent much of his career promoting but has almost never delivered in practice. The White House has asserted false claims of executive privilege to avoid questions on the Justice Department’s Fast and Furious gun-running scandal. The Washington Post reported last year that a large number of requests for public records elicited no material at all from the administration. The same Barack Obama who as a 2008 candidate promised that health-care negotiations would be shown on C-SPAN instead cobbled together the abomination of Obamacare behind closed doors.
It's open government and transparency that this administration and it's supporters (like you) really hate. You all want everything that may be negative for Obama covered up and hidden, every meeting behind closed doors with the lights off and every decision to be mandated by an Obama decree. Why you so scared of transparency and openness?