lets talk thermoelectric cooling!!!

[greenhawk]

these have been made and still sold today

/second writing as the previous was lost in forum maintenance

I remember reading about that design back when they came out. Looking at the way it worked I basically came to the conclusion that it is "bling" for those that just want to say they have a TEC in there system.

The reason for this is the first stage cooling. If the TEC drives the bottom plate below ambient, the heat pipes will be delivering heat from the air to the CPU heat spreader (heat pipes do not care which end is the "hot" end), so you are cooling the cpu and the ambient air (before going through the second set of fins). I assume the electronics in the CPU cooler are designed to not go below ambient (so also offsetting issues with condensation build up when going too cold) so this is not a large issue, but then it means for low temperatures, 1/2 your cooler is doing nothing. Not a issue previously, but given the low idle temps on most current gen CPUs, just a little issue.

Given this design issue, it means people in hot areas or with poor ventilated cases, that type of cooler is properly worse than a standard cooler. As the ambient temp rises in the case, the higher the point the TEC comes on increases and so the hotter the cpu gets before the full cooler is activated. Given the extra heat a TEC generates, this could result in a system where little difference is seen between having the above cooler and having a standard air cooler of similar size.

Of course, if the fans where installed backwards for some reason (customer?), then the issue is made worse as the situation is setup to creating a heat path that will result in far less cpu cooling occurring.

 

[Ferzerp]

I remember having a interest in phase units back when i had my q6600,they cost arm and a leg back then i remember.

This Tec thing is new to me,is it basically a portable phase unit of sorts?

Would be sweet if they have one for the gpu,see how far we can take a 7970,maybe 1500 core?

No, it's like an extremely inefficient heat pump that only moves the heat about 1/8" (and doubles it in the process due to being so inefficient).

 

[Idontcare]

I remember having a interest in phase units back when i had my q6600,they cost arm and a leg back then i remember.

$1k for a vapophase LS. Worth it for the fun, not worth it for the relatively minor performance bump.

 

[Jacky60]

Lets Not! :\

 

[Zardnok]

/second writing as the previous was lost in forum maintenance

I remember reading about that design back when they came out. Looking at the way it worked I basically came to the conclusion that it is "bling" for those that just want to say they have a TEC in there system.

The reason for this is the first stage cooling. If the TEC drives the bottom plate below ambient, the heat pipes will be delivering heat from the air to the CPU heat spreader (heat pipes do not care which end is the "hot" end), so you are cooling the cpu and the ambient air (before going through the second set of fins). I assume the electronics in the CPU cooler are designed to not go below ambient (so also offsetting issues with condensation build up when going too cold) so this is not a large issue, but then it means for low temperatures, 1/2 your cooler is doing nothing. Not a issue previously, but given the low idle temps on most current gen CPUs, just a little issue.

Given this design issue, it means people in hot areas or with poor ventilated cases, that type of cooler is properly worse than a standard cooler. As the ambient temp rises in the case, the higher the point the TEC comes on increases and so the hotter the cpu gets before the full cooler is activated. Given the extra heat a TEC generates, this could result in a system where little difference is seen between having the above cooler and having a standard air cooler of similar size.

Of course, if the fans where installed backwards for some reason (customer?), then the issue is made worse as the situation is setup to creating a heat path that will result in far less cpu cooling occurring.

I like a certain amount of bling, so when I built my current system a few years back, I wanted to go Water Cooled because I thought it was "cool". Then I saw the TEC coolers that were posted above and decided the Amanda would give me temps almost as low as Water and be unique, since few people were running TEC coolers. Amanda was $100 vs a comparable water system being $250ish. Now after a few years of using the Titan Amanda, I feel qualified to comment. The system works. My CPU ran cooler with the Amanda than it did with a Tuniq Tower, which was the best Air HSF at the time. What you say about the first stage cooling may be true with a larger TEC, but with only a 50 watt TEC there is a heated up CPU beneath that bottom plate keeping the temps above ambient and a controller card that regulates the system.

Speaking of the controller card, after a few years, I noticed a decrease in performance on my Amanda. An investigation revealed that the TEC power connection output from the card was melted and not solid enough to supply the 50watt TEC. I pulled the card out and run the TEC full time now with the fans on a controller. If I switch the TEC off, my idle temps rise 10C degrees over about a minute and stabilize. Turning the TEC back on drops those temps by 10C in about 2 seconds. That tells me that the 2 heatpipes on the bottom do help remove some heat from the system, but the TEC is definitely doing the heavy lifting. Have I thought about replacing the 50 watt TEC in my Amanda cooler with a larger version, absolutely!!

Now, all of that said, do modern CPUs need a TEC cooler to achieve decent OCs? I am thinking they do not and any quality air-cooler should be enough. Would it be nice to have an upgraded version of the Amanda, perhaps with a larger TEC, more heat-pipes, and dual 120mm fans, you better believe it!! Would it be something I would buy and use, probably so, especially if it comes with a sexy chick wearing armor and swinging a big sword on it, because nothing says case bling like sexy chicks in armor! If that sexy chick happens to cool my CPU better than comparable Air Coolers and approaching Water cooling levels, even better!!

 

[Edrick]

http://www.digitalstormonline.com/cryo-tec.asp

Now that is a cooling system!!!!!

 

[cbn]

incase you guys are wondering i have done TEC's..

my final conclusion was:

"Cost too much power for the gains."
"not worth it for the gains in OC"
"another thing to add in the list of things which can go wrong in your system"

And the way i did it was with water... cooling the water, so you have more of a buffer..

Make sure u know what ur getting into when you play with TEC's.
Thats the important thing to note.
Because u see frost in video's doesnt mean it will frost when you apply a 100->200W heat source to the cold side.

Aigomorla,

Was there a thread at XS where you discussed this experiment in detail?

 

[grkM3]

http://www.digitalstormonline.com/cryo-tec.asp

Now that is a cooling system!!!!!

thats pretty much the way im doing my setup!

Just need to find a controller board now to regulate voltage with temps.

I just got home from work and the TEC has come in.I might start taking my water block apart and install it real quick to see how it does on the 5v rail.

The tec I have is rated at 168 watts

 

[Idontcare]

thats pretty much the way im doing my setup!

Just need to find a controller board now to regulate voltage with temps.

I just got home from work and the TEC has come in.I might start taking my water block apart and install it real quick to see how it does on the 5v rail.

The tec I have is rated at 168 watts

Only 168W? When they are so cheap, why did you get one that will surely be limit any OC advantage you were going to observe with the cooler operating temps?

 

[grkM3]

Only 168W? When they are so cheap, why did you get one that will surely be limit any OC advantage you were going to observe with the cooler operating temps?

I was looking at so many and thought I ordered the 198 watt version.

I just bought another and this one is really good for about 4.5-4.6ghz as it cant cool the cpu after that.

Im in windows now with 1.34 v and im getting 0c 4c 6c and 12c on the cores.

I need to remount it as my water block is not on really good and just wanted to see how it will run.

 

[Absolute0]

I was looking at so many and thought I ordered the 198 watt version.

I just bought another and this one is really good for about 4.5-4.6ghz as it cant cool the cpu after that.

Im in windows now with 1.34 v and im getting 0c 4c 6c and 12c on the cores.

I need to remount it as my water block is not on really good and just wanted to see how it will run.

That's cool, what are the load temps tho?

 

[Kalessian]

Wouldn't a lower wattage tec be ideal? Something to knock off 20 degrees from the CPU under load, but not enough to cause subzero temps and not enough heat to significantly raise case ambient temp? Seems like the best of both worlds to me. EDIT: Also interested in load temps.

 

[sm625]

Just need to find a controller board now to regulate voltage with temps.

How would such a controller work? Does it just increase the voltage to the TEC as the temperature rises? Do you know approximately what voltage range the TEC operates in? For example, 9V to dissipate 30W, 10V to move 50W, 11V to move 80W...

I might have to try one of these because I know I could make a controller pretty easily. Even one with a direct thermocouple input would be no problem. I could write firmware that would raise the TEC voltage until the temperature drops below 10C, and lower the TEC voltage until the temperature rises above 10C.

 

[Idontcare]

How would such a controller work? Does it just increase the voltage to the TEC as the temperature rises? Do you know approximately what voltage range the TEC operates in? For example, 9V to dissipate 30W, 10V to move 50W, 11V to move 80W...

I might have to try one of these because I know I could make a controller pretty easily. Even one with a direct thermocouple input would be no problem. I could write firmware that would raise the TEC voltage until the temperature drops below 10C, and lower the TEC voltage until the temperature rises above 10C.

Ideally you would have a thermocouple as well as a humidity gauge to be able to compute a target temperature which remains above the dew point at all times as the ambient humidity fluctuates. That would be boss.

 

[Edrick]

thats pretty much the way im doing my setup!

Just need to find a controller board now to regulate voltage with temps.

I just got home from work and the TEC has come in.I might start taking my water block apart and install it real quick to see how it does on the 5v rail.

The tec I have is rated at 168 watts

Pics please!

 

[grkM3]

We need to find a good TEC that can take the load off the cpu and not get to cold when the cpu is idle,like right now Im seeing from 0-7c across all cores but on full load the cpu will hit high 80s so the tec I have is not nearly engough to cool my 2600k

I ordered a 250 watt one but its 50mm so I need to fins or make a bigger waterblock to fit that tec better.

If you are thinking of trying this just remember its about having fun and not a deal breaker if your setup dosnt work well.

I will also add my other radiator in since this little 168watt sucker get the water pretty warm with just one fan and small radiator.

 

[sm625]

I can do thermocouples, but not humidity sensors lol. I would just ensure that the target temperature is somewhere close to ambient so condensation would never be an issue.

 

[grkM3]

here is my setup and i will be installing the radiator above the cpu and my case has 2 huge fans there to cool it.Something is up with my power suply powering this tho.Im only seeing 117watts on my watt meter for totall system watts at idle and I have a pump and 3 fans on.Going to see if I can find my 12v power suply and run it off that to see.

 

[Phynaz]

Wouldn't a lower wattage tec be ideal? Something to knock off 20 degrees from the CPU under load, but not enough to cause subzero temps and not enough heat to significantly raise case ambient temp? Seems like the best of both worlds to me. EDIT: Also interested in load temps.

If you are directly cooling a chip that's not how they work. Your tec has to be rated at the amount of heat you want to move. What happens when you exceed the capabilities of the tec is you go into thermal runaway. At that point your tec is going to fail very quickly. And then you have a CPU that's not only uncooled, but is actually insulated.