Lets? stretch our imaginations a bit?

[Healey]

Lets? stretch our imaginations a bit?

Despite our efforts it?s possible that we could lose the war on radical Islam. They don?t need to fire a shot, and we don?t need to run up a white flag, for this to happen. This could be a largely bloodless war.

As we saw with the recent Israeli/Hezbollah conflict, and as we see with our involvement in Iraq, today?s weapon of choice is not the gun, but the TV camera. While the west uses the camera for introspection and self criticism, the largely state run Arab news outlets are efficient propaganda machines.

So my question is ? What would America look like after we acquiesce?

We have a few clues when we look at Europe. In Germany they?ve decided to not produce a play because it might insult Muslims. In Paris they banned bikinis along the Left Bank because it might offend Muslims. Here in the USA most newspapers self-edited and didn?t print editorial cartoons depicting Mohammed because it would upset his followers.

In the Netherlands Muslims are slowly gaining control in local governments, by legal means, and slowly imposing their forms of rules and management.

Many Muslim leaders are very open and aggressive when they state their plans to impose their ideology on the west. They have demographics and passion on their side.

I?m not making a judgment call here and claiming that their lifestyle is inferior, but I am claiming that the reality is that cultures change all the time. We have no divine mandate to be the top dog in perpetuity; all things come to an end.

We are mow in a vastly faster moving world than even 15 years ago. Transportation, weak borders, the internet, 24 hour news, it all adds up. Just think back on how quickly the Iron Curtain fell. That was a history changing event, one that caught everyone off guard, but yet it happened in a flash.

So how will our world look when we wake up one morning and notice that we lost the big War?

 

[Termagant]

When it becomes apparant that strict Islamists are close to gaining power, Christian Westerners will radicalize, it will look like Germany 1939, millions of people will be slaughtered, and the Western world will be peaceful for another 100 years.

But I doubt your doomsday scenario will occur.

 

[Rainsford]

Seriously, you need to get a grip. This isn't "the big War", "radical Islam" isn't going to destroy our way of life, and people who think so need to remember what happened during the red scare, this is EXACTLY the same thing. And yet, for some reason, I notice a total lack of communists having destroy the US or taken over our way of life, despite the fact that people were falling all over themselves back in the day to preach doom and gloom and a never-ending communist rule...in terms suspiciously similar to those used to rant about "the threat of radical Islam".

The reason communists didn't take over the US, and the reason radical Muslims won't either, is that cultural conflicts simply don't work that way. The "warning signs" in Europe aren't midler versions of things to come at all, they are one-off events notable because of their novelty...it's news for a reason. People were seeing communist agents under every rock back in the day, yet their actual effect on the US was very minimal...most of the problems seemed to come from people overreacting out of fear. McCarthy did far more damage to America than the communists could have ever hoped to do.

That's not to say that our culture is set in stone and will never change, of course that's not true. As demographics change, culture shifts with it. But this idea that we're going to suddenly turn into an English speaking Iran is nonsense.

 

[alchemize]

The real reason communists didn't take over is because communists believed they could exist in any nation, regardless of culture. Islamic neofascism works through breeding and cultural/religious brainwashing, a damn powerful combination. Look how explosively the mormons have grown, let's hope they never start strapping on dynamite vests

My tinfoil prediction, in a generation or three the "really big war" will be between China, India, and Islam, with the US pretty much on the sidelines.

 

[Craig234]

You sound like the south in 1960 asking what will happen if you lose the war for segregation.

A couple things that would likely happen:

- The US would stop increasing the ranks of the terrorists so much
- The US would stop exploiting other nations' people as much for their resources at cheap prices
- The people of those other nations would stop supporting the terrorists as a result, greatly descreasing the number of terrorists
- Muslim governments we disagree with would increase

The US should be a spreader of democracy and freedom, not a stormtrooper for our own power and greed.

There are global wars to fight, like the global war against the concentration of wealth, excessive corporatism, feudalistic corruption like that of China.

But we aren't even debating those, and they're not doing well as we see increases in the bad trends.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: alchemize
The real reason communists didn't take over is because communists believed they could exist in any nation, regardless of culture. Islamic neofascism works through breeding and cultural/religious brainwashing, a damn powerful combination. Look how explosively the mormons have grown, let's hope they never start strapping on dynamite vests

My tinfoil prediction, in a generation or three the "really big war" will be between China, India, and Islam, with the US pretty much on the sidelines.

"Islam" cannot engage in wars. Despite the best efforts of people who seem to have a fundamental need to be "in a war for civilization" to make it seem otherwise, Islam is not a unified culture or set of religious beliefs any more than any other religion is. The real conflict is between Muslims and other Muslims, and it's one I'm fairly confident the moderates are going to win...that's pretty much how every religion has turned out in the rest of the world so far, I see no reason Islam would be any different. Sure, the radical individuals won't be gone, but they'll be idiots ranting on "Justice Sunday" instead of idiots blowing up shopping malls.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: alchemize
The real reason communists didn't take over is because communists believed they could exist in any nation, regardless of culture. Islamic neofascism works through breeding and cultural/religious brainwashing, a damn powerful combination. Look how explosively the mormons have grown, let's hope they never start strapping on dynamite vests

My tinfoil prediction, in a generation or three the "really big war" will be between China, India, and Islam, with the US pretty much on the sidelines.

"Islam" cannot engage in wars. Despite the best efforts of people who seem to have a fundamental need to be "in a war for civilization" to make it seem otherwise, Islam is not a unified culture or set of religious beliefs any more than any other religion is. The real conflict is between Muslims and other Muslims, and it's one I'm fairly confident the moderates are going to win...that's pretty much how every religion has turned out in the rest of the world so far, I see no reason Islam would be any different. Sure, the radical individuals won't be gone, but they'll be idiots ranting on "Justice Sunday" instead of idiots blowing up shopping malls.

Pfft you are an optimist indeed. Sure, every religion went that route, but look what it took! Look how long it took to tame catholicism, and how much war was fought in it's name. Islam today is much like catholicism at the peak of the spanish inquisition - totally perverted and the majority of it's followers ignorant sheep (or wolves really).

But I hope you are right - best case is the sunni and shiite slaughter each other by the millions they will finally settle down a bit.