Lets, see what do the Palestinians need more, sugar or potassium nitrate?

[kermalou]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

IDF: Chemicals were disguised as EU aid
Talia Dekel , THE JERUSALEM POST Dec. 29, 2007

The IDF and Shin Bet uncovered 6.5 tons of potassium nitrate hidden in sacks that were disguised as aid from the European Union, the army announced on Saturday.

Security forces discovered the stash in the cargo of a Palestinian truck at a West Bank checkpoint earlier in December. According to the IDF, the material, hidden in sugar sacks, was planned to be used by terrorists in the Gaza Strip.

"Potassium Nitrate is a banned substance in the Gaza Strip and the Judea and Samaria region due to its use by terrorists for the manufacturing of
explosives and Kassam rockets," the IDF spokesperson wrote in a statement.

"This is another example of how the terror organizations exploit the humanitarian aid that is delivered to the Palestinian population in the Gaza Strip with Israel's approval," the statement read.

Lets see how long till a major network catches on to this....

(this can all be made up as well, but we'll see)




The thread was hijacked after being warned via 2 seperate posts

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Why would they even bother trying that? They have used tunnels for smuggling for ages, why would they suddenly try to get a truck past a checkpoint?

I'll wait for some more reliable source first.

 

[PottedMeat]

The IDF and Shin Bet uncovered 6.5 tons of potassium nitrate hidden in sacks that were disguised as aid from the European Union, the army announced on Saturday.

... thats gonna make a lot of bacon and corned beef...

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Why would they even bother trying that? They have used tunnels for smuggling for ages, why would they suddenly try to get a truck past a checkpoint?

I'll wait for some more reliable source first.

Volume - it will take a lot of manpower to transport 6.5 tons of powder through a tunnel.

Figure no more than 100 lbs per person.
That would require 130 man trips.

The amount of foot traffic would probably expose a tunnel, the supplies would also have to be transported to the Egyptian border, unloaded and stored for pickup.
Unneed exposure if one can rely of the UN goodwill suckers instead.

 

[Lemon law]

The rule of thumb for smuggling usually is for every illegal shipment found, ten slip by. Given the efficiency of Israeli intel, its probably more like one in five, but we have not seen terrorists run out of explosives yet.

And I also note this occurred on the West Bank, home of the the good Abbas led Palestinians, and all the evil was now in the Palestinians led by Hamas in Gaza. I will have to recheck my revised scorecard and script for the latest updates. But I guess the Israeli idea of fair play is to leave Palestinians with only rocks and bottles to defend themselves with as only Israelis can be trusted with explosives, tanks, and planes. We never known when Israel will have to cluster bomb Lebanon again or send in tanks to teach them uppity Palestinians a lesson. Damn them people are stupid, 60 years and they still have not learned how much better it is to live in squalor and hopelessness rather than die in squalor. Hope too is another thing only the Israelis can be trusted with.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
But I guess the Israeli idea of fair play is to leave Palestinians with only rocks and bottles to defend themselves with as only Israelis can be trusted with explosives, tanks, and planes. We never known when Israel will have to cluster bomb Lebanon again or send in tanks to teach them uppity Palestinians a lesson. Damn them people are stupid, 60 years and they still have not learned how much better it is to live in squalor and hopelessness rather than die in squalor. Hope too is another thing only the Israelis can be trusted with.

If only we all lived in the ideological dreamland that you inhabit.

Here's an idea, if you're so convinced that militant Palestinians should have explosive materials, why don't you go over there and join in their cause to blow up Israeli schoolchildren? While you're at it, try reading a book on what actually happened in the region.

 

[Moonbeam]

You'd think the Palestinians would have plenty of potassium nitrate just from being pissed off.

 

[brandonb]

Probably Potassium Nitrate. Sugar rots the teeth.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

maybe they just have a lot of stumps to remove?

 

[kermalou]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1


I'll wait for some more reliable source first.

is Al-Reuters a good enough source?

http://www.reuters.com/article...s/idUSL297764020071229

 

[Lemon law]

As taclis1023 comes up with the predictable Israeli response of---If only we all lived in the ideological dreamland that you inhabit.

Here's an idea, if you're so convinced that militant Palestinians should have explosive materials, why don't you go over there and join in their cause to blow up Israeli schoolchildren? While you're at it, try reading a book on what actually happened in the region.

Actually its the Israelis who live in the dreamland that their tactics will make the problem of terrorism go away. As for me, I don't see the Palestinians as being right either and I avoid siding with either side, which does involve rejecting Israeli propaganda as bullshit also, but it don't take any genius to see that all both sides are now doing is perpetuating the tensions.

Both sides are playing very dangerous game. To a certain extent they can blow themselves up for all I care, but when the act of blowing themselves up is going to impact me,
I start to care quite a bit more. And its a little past long time past overdue to ask what is fair for both sides in any possible settlement.

Somehow, given what the Palestinians have now, is that anywhere close to fair or what you would settle for if you were in their boat.???????????????????????????????

Get a clue, Israel has already grubbed it all up and they are quite understandably happy to keep it all.

I know perfectly well what the existing situation and how it got to be there. Just don't ask me to think the Palestinian people will willing allow themselves to become third class citizens in the land of their birth.

 

[senseamp]

Isn't Potassium Nitrate (saltpeter) also a commonly used fertilzer? So yeah, I'd take it over sugar, because you can use it to grow crops. You guys make it sound like some WMD.

 

[Lemon law]

The other problem with the assertion of blame just the Palestinians, is that the shipment originated in the EU.

Which means that other people and other countries are funding fueling the fires of conflict while they stand by, safely out of the fray. And like vultures, when both sides get consumed by the fighting, maybe they hope to swoop in and pick up some of the pieces.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Isn't Potassium Nitrate (saltpeter) also a commonly used fertilzer? So yeah, I'd take it over sugar, because you can use it to grow crops. You guys make it sound like some WMD.

When it is deliberately mislabeled, then one may think that the intent is to fertilize the bombs, not the crops

 

[kermalou]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As taclis1023 comes up with the predictable Israeli response of---If only we all lived in the ideological dreamland that you inhabit.

Here's an idea, if you're so convinced that militant Palestinians should have explosive materials, why don't you go over there and join in their cause to blow up Israeli schoolchildren? While you're at it, try reading a book on what actually happened in the region.

Actually its the Israelis who live in the dreamland that their tactics will make the problem of terrorism go away. As for me, I don't see the Palestinians as being right either and I avoid siding with either side, which does involve rejecting Israeli propaganda as bullshit also, but it don't take any genius to see that all both sides are now doing is perpetuating the tensions.

Both sides are playing very dangerous game. To a certain extent they can blow themselves up for all I care, but when the act of blowing themselves up is going to impact me,
I start to care quite a bit more. And its a little past long time past overdue to ask what is fair for both sides in any possible settlement.

Somehow, given what the Palestinians have now, is that anywhere close to fair or what you would settle for if you were in their boat.???????????????????????????????

Get a clue, Israel has already grubbed it all up and they are quite understandably happy to keep it all.

I know perfectly well what the existing situation and how it got to be there. Just don't ask me to think the Palestinian people will willing allow themselves to become third class citizens in the land of their birth.

Lemon Law, lets see off the top of my head.

The Israelis gave up the West Bank and what have the Pali people done with it?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: kermalou

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As taclis1023 comes up with the predictable Israeli response of---If only we all lived in the ideological dreamland that you inhabit.

Here's an idea, if you're so convinced that militant Palestinians should have explosive materials, why don't you go over there and join in their cause to blow up Israeli schoolchildren? While you're at it, try reading a book on what actually happened in the region.

Actually its the Israelis who live in the dreamland that their tactics will make the problem of terrorism go away. As for me, I don't see the Palestinians as being right either and I avoid siding with either side, which does involve rejecting Israeli propaganda as bullshit also, but it don't take any genius to see that all both sides are now doing is perpetuating the tensions.

Both sides are playing very dangerous game. To a certain extent they can blow themselves up for all I care, but when the act of blowing themselves up is going to impact me,
I start to care quite a bit more. And its a little past long time past overdue to ask what is fair for both sides in any possible settlement.

Somehow, given what the Palestinians have now, is that anywhere close to fair or what you would settle for if you were in their boat.???????????????????????????????

Get a clue, Israel has already grubbed it all up and they are quite understandably happy to keep it all.

I know perfectly well what the existing situation and how it got to be there. Just don't ask me to think the Palestinian people will willing allow themselves to become third class citizens in the land of their birth.

Lemon Law, lets see off the top of my head.

The Israelis gave up the West Bank and what have the Pali people done with it?

And bailed out of Gaza; what did the Palis do then.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: kermalou
Lemon Law, lets see off the top of my head.

The Israelis gave up the West Bank and what have the Pali people done with it?

What do you mean by "gave up the West Bank"? Israel has been expanding their occupation of the West Bank since they withdrew to controlling Gaza from it's boarders a couple years back.

 

[jckm]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: kermalou

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As taclis1023 comes up with the predictable Israeli response of---If only we all lived in the ideological dreamland that you inhabit.

Here's an idea, if you're so convinced that militant Palestinians should have explosive materials, why don't you go over there and join in their cause to blow up Israeli schoolchildren? While you're at it, try reading a book on what actually happened in the region.

Actually its the Israelis who live in the dreamland that their tactics will make the problem of terrorism go away. As for me, I don't see the Palestinians as being right either and I avoid siding with either side, which does involve rejecting Israeli propaganda as bullshit also, but it don't take any genius to see that all both sides are now doing is perpetuating the tensions.

Both sides are playing very dangerous game. To a certain extent they can blow themselves up for all I care, but when the act of blowing themselves up is going to impact me,
I start to care quite a bit more. And its a little past long time past overdue to ask what is fair for both sides in any possible settlement.

Somehow, given what the Palestinians have now, is that anywhere close to fair or what you would settle for if you were in their boat.???????????????????????????????

Get a clue, Israel has already grubbed it all up and they are quite understandably happy to keep it all.

I know perfectly well what the existing situation and how it got to be there. Just don't ask me to think the Palestinian people will willing allow themselves to become third class citizens in the land of their birth.

Lemon Law, lets see off the top of my head.

The Israelis gave up the West Bank and what have the Pali people done with it?

And bailed out of Gaza; what did the Palis do then.

The Pali voted in HAMAS to lead their people?

 

[Lemon law]

The point being the only way to defuse the tensions is to have a viable Palestinian State. Ceding some worthless desert with no resources to make a State viable will not work.

Its sort of like Israel saying we gave you a brand new car-----what they don't tell you is that the car has no engine or tires. And at 90% of it belong to the Palestinians in the first place.

Or we can just have another 60 years of this tit for tat violence which might be fine until it causes a much wider mid-east war.

 

[EagleKeeper]

A viable state means a government that accepts responsibilty for the people and the actions of the people.

At this point neither Hamas or Fatah seem to be willing to do so.

And the Palestinians (as a people) do not seem to be able to select which will lead, nor are they able to force either party to share power with the other.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
A viable state means a government that accepts responsibilty for the people and the actions of the people.

At this point neither Hamas or Fatah seem to be willing to do so.

And the Palestinians (as a people) do not seem to be able to select which will lead, nor are they able to force either party to share power with the other.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Granted all valid points. But we now have a seven billion dollar pot of money, a ongoing peace conference, and if we can get some Arab, Israeli, US, and Eu support, its possible to get a viable Palestinian State

If not, its back to another 60 years of the same ole shit. Until some terrorists gets a hold of nukes or biological weapons and then there will no longer be a problem to solve or an Israel to
share.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
And the Palestinians (as a people) do not seem to be able to select which will lead, nor are they able to force either party to share power with the other.

What people could when they run a fair and open election only to have those results met with their occupiers withholding the tax collection and leaving sanctions while persuading the loosing party to attempt an overthrow the winners?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
And the Palestinians (as a people) do not seem to be able to select which will lead, nor are they able to force either party to share power with the other.

What people could when they run a fair and open election only to have those results met with their occupiers withholding the tax collection and leaving sanctions while persuading the loosing party to attempt an overthrow the winners?

We could go around and around on this.

When the Pals choose Hamas, who have in their charter the destruction of your "occupiers", why should the Israel bend over to allow Hamas the ability to damage Israel.

Turn the other cheek may work in social circles, but does not work when the opponent is sworn to your destruction.

And the Pals knew this going into the election - they had to choose guns or butter.

 

[Lemon law]

The EagleKeeper and Israeli propaganda is fully contained in the following---And the Pals knew this going into the election - they had to choose guns or butter.

The problem is there is no land of milk and honey, much less butter in choosing anything but guns for the Palestinians. They got screwed in 1948 and things will never get better until they get something to work with. Its still live in squalor or die in squalor for them. Its an unacceptable choice either way.

If Fatah can't deliver they will be history, if Hamas can't deliver they will be history, and Israel will inherit the wind for the foreseeable future and will know no peace until some group
does something to make sure there is nothing left to squabble about.

For anyone able to even mentally walk an inch in Palestinians shoes, ask yourself, would YOU accept being royally screwed and left with no hope? If you believe in fair play and justice, the answer can't be anything but no.

 

[kermalou]

Lemon,

I agree with you on that point. It is a tough predicament that they are in, but if the people really wanted peace would they elect Hamas which has destruction of the other side?