Let's Reach for The Stars Again

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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One of the things I grew up with was reading every Robert Heinlein book about space travel and exploring new worlds. They inspired me even if I never did get to travel to distant worlds. I gave some of these books to my daughter but she preferred to read about vampires in love. My son, however, just turned 11, has been checking out the dreams we used to to have.

If we don't have dreams that we can strive to achieve, no matter how hard they may seem to others, what will we have?

Mike Griffin is part of a generation that dreamt of more than himself. He wrote this to ask us why we gave up on his dream...

Let's Reach for The Stars Again

By Michael D. Griffin

The Washington Post
Sunday, July 19, 2009

What is most striking about this 40th anniversary of the first human landing on the moon is that we can no longer do what we're celebrating. Not "do not choose to," but "can't."

By the 40th anniversary of the Lewis and Clark expedition, the Oregon Trail was carrying settlers to the West. By the 40th anniversary of the completion of the transcontinental railroad, a web of rail traffic crisscrossed the continent. By the 40th anniversary of Lindbergh's epic transatlantic flight, thousands of people in jetliners retraced his route in comfort and safety every day. And on the 40th anniversary of Sputnik, hundreds of satellites were orbiting the Earth.

Only in human spaceflight do we celebrate the anniversary of an achievement that seems more difficult to repeat than to accomplish the first time. Only in human spaceflight can we find in museums things that most of us in the space business wish we still had today.

The United States spent eight years and $21 billion -- around $150 billion today -- to develop a transportation system to take people to the moon. We then spent less than four years and $4 billion using it, after which we threw it away. Not mothballed, or assigned to caretaker status for possible later use. Destroyed. Just as the Chinese, having explored the world in the early 15th century and found nothing better than what they had at home, burned their fleet of ships.

We gave up the frontier of our time -- hardly typical American behavior. We see ourselves as people who, in all things, push past the boundaries that halt others. Abandoning the enterprise of space exploration is a striking decision because it violates something that makes us human: the desire to know new things through personal experience. Mankind is mankind in part because we voyage, and because we do it personally, not because we send machines in our stead.

If that is true, why did we close the door to space?

It is sometimes said that Apollo was cancelled because, after we landed on the moon, the public lost interest. But NASA's budget began its decline in 1966 -- three years prior to Apollo 11 -- a casualty of Vietnam-era financial pressures. And after the moon landing, long before any possible diminution of its popular appeal, President Nixon cancelled three planned space missions. The hardware for these missions had already been procured; you can find it in museums at NASA's Johnson, Kennedy and Marshall space centers. Voyaging to the moon was not undertaken in response to public opinion, and it was not abandoned because that opinion flagged.

A more insightful view is that Apollo and the manned space program lacked any goal more compelling than that of besting the Soviet Union. When we won the race, the imperative for space exploration vanished. Had President Kennedy couched Apollo as the initial step in a larger strategy to become a permanently space-faring nation, the outcome might have been different. But with the quintessentially American ability to bring focus to a goal that was both impossibly audacious and ridiculously short-sighted, once we had beaten the Russians to the moon, there came . . . what? There was no answer.

For 30 years after Apollo, NASA drifted. Not in a tactical sense; indeed, some of the best minds in the country devoted themselves to the development of the space shuttle and after that the international space station. But the agency lacked a guiding vision to unify its efforts. Where was the space shuttle going, what was it carrying, what would be done with that payload and why? In the simplest of terms, what was it all about?

To fly regularly into space is the most difficult technical challenge we know. It is just barely possible, and even when done successfully, it is expensive, difficult and dangerous. To justify it requires an overarching vision. You either believe that expanding the range of human action and thereby creating options for the future is a noble endeavor, worthy of the cost and risk, or you do not. No lesser justification is acceptable, and no greater justification is needed.

But for three decades that logic was missing from U.S. space policy, and in that absence NASA and the human spaceflight program were reduced to a year-by-year, piecewise justification of activities and budgets that cannot easily be defended in that fashion. Without a multi-decade strategy, the manned spaceflight program found its argument in the politics of jobs and national prestige and . . . no one really knew.

Thirty years and six weeks after the last manned flight to the moon, the space shuttle Columbia was lost, and with it seven lives and many billions of dollars. In August 2003, Adm. Hal Gehman, chairman of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board, released an extraordinary report concluding that the root cause of the disaster was the fact that NASA had lacked a guiding vision for more than 30 years. Gehman said both the executive and legislative branches were to blame.

The community involved in our nation's space program vowed that it would never happen again. A remarkably logical and well-crafted civilian space policy was put forth, one that respected existing commitments to complete the international space station while readying bold new ventures -- returning to the moon, establishing a sustained presence there and preparing for a voyage to Mars.

In 2005, a Republican Congress approved this policy as the guiding strategy for NASA, and three years later a Democratic Congress did the same. President Obama's first budget request calls for lunar return by 2020.

The words are great, but the actions aren't. In early 2005, about $110 billion was allocated to the task of returning American and international partner astronauts to the moon by 2020. Less than five years later, that figure has been slashed to about $70 billion, not enough to do the job. We're willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars bailing out failed enterprises, but we're not willing to spend more than a half-penny of the federal budget dollar to support one of the greatest enterprises in history.

In any era, extending humanity's reach is always the hardest thing a society does. We stretch ourselves, and what we learn yields broad benefits. Our solar system is the new frontier; its exploration and exploitation will benefit those who take the lead in pursuing it.

What kind of people are we? That is the most important question we face. Are we explorers, pioneers and leaders, or will we sit back and watch others assume those roles? Are we to focus solely on immediate problems, allowing the future to happen to us, or do we want to create that future?

If we no longer understand the importance of defining, occupying and extending the human frontier, we can be assured that others do. Russia is building a new lunar-capable manned spacecraft, China continues to pursue a methodical, carefully crafted human spaceflight program, and India is planning to join the club in 2015. We should wish them well. But we must be there too. No one can wrest leadership in space from the United States. But we can certainly cede it, and that is the path we are on.

At this 40th anniversary of Apollo, we need to ask ourselves a simple question: Do we want to have a real space program, or do we just want to talk about what we used to be able to do?

Michael.Griffin@UAH.edu

Michael D. Griffin, a former NASA administrator, is a professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering at the University of Alabama at Huntsville.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
138
106
Quick, put an opinion down before this gets locked.

For me, I think that the humans in space is about worthless. Robots are the way to go.

-------------------------
Some tolerance is allowed with respect to scientific vs political commentary for the OP.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: Cogman
Quick, put an opinion down before this gets locked.

For me, I think that the humans in space is about worthless. Robots are the way to go.

So you prefer robots probing Uranus?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Yeah, I like Robert Heinlein too.

I wish we'd have directed some stimulus to the space effort. Lots of people, on both sides of the aisle, crying about a lack of interest here in the USA for engineering etc. Yet, when the opportunity (stimulus) arises they completely blow it.

We've had the space long enough to work on problems associated with extended space flight (lack of gravity).

I wish we'd pick an interesting goal, like establishing a lunar base to use as a platform for future missions (easier take-off in low gravity etc.) or launching some experimental craft (ships with solar sails whatever), and/or a manned trip to Mars etc. I think going back to the moon to plant another flag is a bit of a yawn, but putting one on Mars a whole different ballgame.

Fern
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,534
6,703
126
We treat space just as we do the earth. We are pigs that just love to create pig shit, but we never like to clean our pig shit up. We are perfectly content to create poisons here that will kill for hundreds of thousands of years and leave they laying all over the place just as we fill our space skys with ortbital debris. We are pigs and the only place we are going is to the Luau. We hate ourselves and we will make sure we can't leave planet.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,534
6,703
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I remember reading somewhere, I have no idea where, that the measure of a person could be discovered in his aim and that when it came to having a large measure you couldn't fault what I seem to remember was a Buddhist prayer aim, "I vow to save all sentient beings."

That would certainly top going into space as an aim, in my opinion.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,908
3,886
136
Originally posted by: Cogman
Quick, put an opinion down before this gets locked.

For me, I think that the humans in space is about worthless. Robots are the way to go.

-------------------------
Some tolerance is allowed with respect to scientific vs political commentary for the OP.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

As I said in another thread, send RC cars and tinker toys wherever you want but no one will care until people go. Robots can certainly provide tons of great data, but the reality is that they don't inspire people to support the space program. Hence no vision and stagnant funding.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I remember reading somewhere, I have no idea where, that the measure of a person could be discovered in his aim and that when it came to having a large measure you couldn't fault what I seem to remember was a Buddhist prayer aim, "I vow to save all sentient beings."

That would certainly top going into space as an aim, in my opinion.

You obviously have zero knowledge of the benefits to mankind that have been developed through manned spaceflight. The technologies developed to support human survival in space have saved or extended countless lives on earth. One can only imagine the knowledge we'll gain by living on the moon or traveling to Mars.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
I have been reading Science Fiction since I was a kid. My dad worked on the Apollo mission.

The reason we are not going to space is because there was no financial reward in doing it besides good TV.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,069
0
81
Humans lost interest because going to the moon was too expensive and only a few could experience the wonder of leaving Earth and landing on another planet.

Until companies develop affordable [ie: around or double the cost of a round trip ticket from NY to LA] travel to/from the moon [and perhaps mars] - there won't be much interest in "going into space" other than perhaps orbiting the earth to see how amazing the planet looks from space.

What we really need is proof that life exists elsewhere in the universe - that would accelerate the space program beyond anything we've ever dreamed of.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,363
1,222
126
Let's spend more money we don't have.

When we land a person on Mars, our great-grandkids can feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we used THEIR money to pay for it.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,041
44,979
136
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Let's spend more money we don't have.

When we land a person on Mars, our great-grandkids can feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we used THEIR money to pay for it.

When your great grand kids are using the technology developed in the course of that to mine materials from asteroids and helium 3 from the moon I think they won't have too big a problem with it.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Let's spend more money we don't have.

When we land a person on Mars, our great-grandkids can feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we used THEIR money to pay for it.

When your great grand kids are using the technology developed in the course of that to mine materials from asteroids and helium 3 from the moon I think they won't have too big a problem with it.

And while you're at it, discard all the products made possible because of the NASA Space Programs, and their derived tecchnologies
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,534
6,703
126
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Cogman
Quick, put an opinion down before this gets locked.

For me, I think that the humans in space is about worthless. Robots are the way to go.

-------------------------
Some tolerance is allowed with respect to scientific vs political commentary for the OP.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

As I said in another thread, send RC cars and tinker toys wherever you want but no one will care until people go. Robots can certainly provide tons of great data, but the reality is that they don't inspire people to support the space program. Hence no vision and stagnant funding.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I remember reading somewhere, I have no idea where, that the measure of a person could be discovered in his aim and that when it came to having a large measure you couldn't fault what I seem to remember was a Buddhist prayer aim, "I vow to save all sentient beings."

That would certainly top going into space as an aim, in my opinion.

You obviously have zero knowledge of the benefits to mankind that have been developed through manned spaceflight. The technologies developed to support human survival in space have saved or extended countless lives on earth. One can only imagine the knowledge we'll gain by living on the moon or traveling to Mars.

You certainly have no talent with figuring out what is obvious. But all those same technological advances could have been achieved is the aim was saving all humanity and more. One can only imagine what a saved human race would accomplish. Humanity has a disease called self hate and the only place we are headed is for extinction. Our aims are way way to small for what we could really do. We were created in the image of God and live like we are pigs. Sorry.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: Cogman
Quick, put an opinion down before this gets locked.

For me, I think that the humans in space is about worthless. Robots are the way to go.

-------------------------
Some tolerance is allowed with respect to scientific vs political commentary for the OP.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

As I said in another thread, send RC cars and tinker toys wherever you want but no one will care until people go. Robots can certainly provide tons of great data, but the reality is that they don't inspire people to support the space program. Hence no vision and stagnant funding.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I remember reading somewhere, I have no idea where, that the measure of a person could be discovered in his aim and that when it came to having a large measure you couldn't fault what I seem to remember was a Buddhist prayer aim, "I vow to save all sentient beings."

That would certainly top going into space as an aim, in my opinion.

You obviously have zero knowledge of the benefits to mankind that have been developed through manned spaceflight. The technologies developed to support human survival in space have saved or extended countless lives on earth. One can only imagine the knowledge we'll gain by living on the moon or traveling to Mars.

If one determined the total cost of the Space Adventures from the very start until today I wonder how much has been spent... who got the money and what the variance would have been in job creation had the money gone into earth bound research along with the net benefit to human kind... IOW.. The entire space event scenario has produced benefits to some groups of folks but I wonder what benefits might have accrued to the same or other groups of folks had the money been otherwise been spent on research and fast trains and wind power or solar... I wonder?
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Every time the shuttle launches, it's the equivalent of venting 300K refrigerator's freon into the atmosphere.

We need to focus on cheap efficient methods to get satellites into orbit and that's about it.

Mars is dead, the moon is dead, deep space travel is pointless in our fragile bodies.

Money spent on sending man into space is a huge waste, I'd rather see the $ go into electric car research, and sustainable technology. Can you imagine the results if the resources of Apollo had been applied towards energy efficiency?
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
1,408
0
0
History is riddled with people who had true perspective, the people who told us of all the greatness we could acheive, but we almost never listen to them. I will agree that presently, we have huge issues that go beyond space travel, but if we let ourselves grow complacent with where we are, we'll have lost what it was that's always made humans different. It's our desire to be annoying little invaders into the recesses of places we can only imagination. I do hope that we don't think we've done enough just to settle our own planet, when there's billions, trillions of other places out there. There's black holes that could swallow our entire planet, there's stars that provide unfathomably more energy than we would ever need to use ourselves in 100 years. There's new materials on those different planets, maybe one of those is the cure for cancer. Where has our imagination gone? The sad thing is, nobody will listen. We'll continue to be bogged down in our own insignificant problems for years to come. I don't see us getting out of this one.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
138
106
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Every time the shuttle launches, it's the equivalent of venting 300K refrigerator's freon into the atmosphere.

We need to focus on cheap efficient methods to get satellites into orbit and that's about it.

Mars is dead, the moon is dead, deep space travel is pointless in our fragile bodies.

Money spent on sending man into space is a huge waste, I'd rather see the $ go into electric car research, and sustainable technology. Can you imagine the results if the resources of Apollo had been applied towards energy efficiency?

For the first few Apollo missions, the money was pretty much spend on energy efficiency. You'd have to be blind not to see the major technological breakthroughs that came as a result of putting a man into space.

However, those days are not today. What more could we learn by putting a man on mars? The most would be a way to get him off of mars when he is finished (right now it is a one way street).

I agree with you, money spent on fusion tech, battery tech, or just about any other tech would be better spent then money spent on keeping a man alive in a enclosed space for 3 months.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,363
1,222
126
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Let's spend more money we don't have.

When we land a person on Mars, our great-grandkids can feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we used THEIR money to pay for it.

When your great grand kids are using the technology developed in the course of that to mine materials from asteroids and helium 3 from the moon I think they won't have too big a problem with it.

Their Chinese masters won't have a problem with it. I'm sure helium 3 will help pay down a crushing national debit.

 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: brandonbull
Let's spend more money we don't have.

When we land a person on Mars, our great-grandkids can feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that we used THEIR money to pay for it.

When your great grand kids are using the technology developed in the course of that to mine materials from asteroids and helium 3 from the moon I think they won't have too big a problem with it.

Their Chinese masters won't have a problem with it. I'm sure helium 3 will help pay down a crushing national debit.

Yea, its not like you'd use He3 for anything.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Every time the shuttle launches, it's the equivalent of venting 300K refrigerator's freon into the atmosphere.

We need to focus on cheap efficient methods to get satellites into orbit and that's about it.

Mars is dead, the moon is dead, deep space travel is pointless in our fragile bodies.

Money spent on sending man into space is a huge waste, I'd rather see the $ go into electric car research, and sustainable technology. Can you imagine the results if the resources of Apollo had been applied towards energy efficiency?


The Shuttle is NOT propelled by any florinated or chlorinated hydrocarbons, or freon type derivatives.

The main engines use liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen as fuel to provide their thrust, and the by-product of combustion is water vapor.
The Solid Rocket Boosters use ammonium perclorate, powdered aluminum, and iron oxide and a butyl rubber binder as a secondary fuel.

At no time is there anything at approaches a refrigerant type of freon injected into the atmosphere.
Huge amounts of potentially caustic by-products yes, but not the 'equivalent' of freon refrigerants.