lets cut off israel

[MrPabulum]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM
israel is a mad dog, and should be shot; its out of control, but will never be stopped because it's really a puppet for bush's regime

So if that's what you think about Israel, what's your opinion about the rest of the democratic nations in the Middle East? Wait, that's right, none exist. So what do you think about those other Arab despotisms in the region? And when you're done responding to that question, oblige me by answering this one:

Does Israel have a right to exist in the Middle East? Or at all?

 

[ToeJam13]

Originally posted by: raildogg
First off, you are a ignoramus who doesn't understand what you're talking about. Secondly, you sound like a typical anti-Semite bigot.

You also sound like the typical flame-war antagonist who interprets anti-Israel with anti-Jew. Leave the kid alone and quit using deflamatory statements because you don't agree with his statements.

Israel and Judaism are not one and the same - Israel is a sovereign territory run by a semi-secular government whereas Judaism is a religious organization with a system of beliefs and doctrine.

I use the term ?semi-secular? because several of the current political parties in Israel, including the Mafdal, Shas and United Torah Judaism parties, base their political strategy directly from their interpretation of religious doctrine. As a whole, many of the major parties are in fact secular.

Originally posted by: raildogg
Israel is fighting the same terrorists we are fighting and in fact, it is on the front lines in the global war on terrorism.

Lets cut the smoke and mirrors game. Israel is fighting over a land dispute.

When Great Britain divided its territorial holdings in 1923 along the Jordan River into the newly formed territories of Palestine and Transjordan, huge numbers of indigenous people of Arab and Palestinian lineage were caught in the newly formed territory.

The UN tried to separate the two major groups when they signed the UN Partition Plan in 1947, equally dividing the territories 50-50 between Jews and Arabs. When Israel declared its independence from Great Britain in 1948, her neighbors attacked.

Palestinians have always been caught in the middle. They?re not Arab, who dominate the region, nor are they Turks or Persians. When Israel declared her independence, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled the country. Most settled in neighboring countries, but others settled in northern Africa and beyond. Those neighbors were not happy to receive so many displaced refugees. Given that Palestinians have a similar stigma within the Middle East as the Gypsies do in Europe, you can understand their bitterness.

Now that Israel has made peace with Egypt and Jordan, it?s left fighting Syria and its puppet Lebanon. To make matters worse, Syria is using Palestinian guerillas to infiltrate the country. Palestinian leaders are also stirring up nationalistic pride, hoping for a land grab of former occupied land from the UN Partition Plan. Without an official army and vastly outgunned by the IDF, the only way they can battle Israel is through subterfuge and unconventional tactics.

Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad and other Palestinian militant groups want the unconditional destruction of Israel so that they might form their own independent state on the ashes of Israeli cities. This holy Jihad is merely a ruse to induce hatred against Israel and help with their cause. Before WWI, Jews lived throughout northern Africa and the Middle East with relative harmony with their Muslim neighbors. The polarizing anti-Semitism has only occurred within the past century.

As such, the US and Israel are not fighting the same war on terror. Al-Qaeda was formed to battle the increasing military, economic and social expansion of America within Saudi Arabia. To them, the destruction of Israel would be a ?good thing?, but it?s not their primary mission. Al-Qaeda wants more than anything to see dead Americans.

Originally posted by: raildogg
That just shows how ignorant you really are. Israel does stop Arab terrorists from blowing up Jews each day, but sometimes the terrorists get lucky. Just like the Tel Aviv bombing a few weeks ago. Israel is dismantling settlements even if many Israelis don't want that to happen. Also, Arafat was offerened 90% of what he wanted a few years ago and rejected it. What do you say to that?

Israel is no saint either when it comes to the peace accord. On numerous occasions it has allowed Jewish settlement and occupation of Arab/Palestinian lands gained through conflict.

It could be said that those lands were the spoils of war, and that they had a legitimate right to colonize them. However, those lands were also barter for Israel to use with its neighbors and guerillas fighting within the country. Instead of giving the land back in good faith, it kept some of it and hoped the remaining scraps would be good enough to win them something. Sadly, it didn?t work and the accords failed.

Today, Israel is making yet another land grab into Palestinian territory with its security fence. Several areas of the fence were built far within the occupied territory. Israel states that the fence was built along a strategic route. Perhaps that is true, but instead of pulling back from the border to find a strategic route, it built across the border.

 

[ToeJam13]

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
WOW people on here are complaining about the financial and "military" aid we give to countries. Ha. we may give countries financial aid, but we sell them military hardware.

During the earliest wars between Israel and her neighbors, the United States was actually arming Jordan. Egypt was armed by Russia and Israel was armed by Czechoslovakia. It was only later that Israel began supllying itself with small arms from the United States.

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
alot of times the financial aid depends on the country spending a certaint percentage of it on our military hardware. I'm sure GE and Lockheed would have lots to say about our government "cutting off" any nation we supply aid and arms to.

Israel is moving for independance from the US assistance. She is worried that public opinion may turn against her and that US foriegn aid may dry up. Weapons contracts are also coming with strings attached. Besides, Israel has discovered the same thing that Wal-Mart has discovered - goods from China are a lot cheaper than those from the United States.

 

[mordantmonkey]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13

During the earliest wars between Israel and her neighbors, the United States was actually arming Jordan. Egypt was armed by Russia and Israel was armed by Czechoslovakia. It was only later that Israel began supllying itself with small arms from the United States.

i guess if you consider attack helicopters small arms.

And yeah i'm sure they're eyeing China now if or when the US backing falls away, but China has a long way to go on developing attack and transport helicopters. I'm sure their current economic boom will help out considerably however.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
this is primarily aimed at raildogg-

SLOW DOWN. calm WAY down, buddy. i am NOT an anti-semite. my ancestors were jewish, and a lot of them died in the holocaust. so stfu. secondly. yes, im ignorant. thats why i started this thread. educate me.

now, come on. this is a cycle. every time the israelis retaliate a suicide bomber, the terrorists blow up another bus, and the israelis retaliate, and the terrorists kill some more israelis in a mall. and the IDF retaliates. over and over. the terrorists are scattered, leaderless, but they have the support of the palestinian people, a HUGE majority of whom want peace. but israel keeps retaliating and accidentally killing palestinian babies. these are unavoidable casualties of war- except that all they have to do is stop. just stop killing them. in fact, dont retaliate for a couple of times. and then pull the F out of occupied territory, start negotiating, and make some serious concessions. et voila, the terrorists lose their support base because israel isnt a threat anymore, and they wither and die within a decade.

or maybe im wrong- but tell me why and how, dont call me an anti-semitic ignoramus.



and our support of egypt is oftentimes misguided as well. but im not talking about egypt, im talking about israel. so stop being a knee-jerk apologist and stick to the issue at hand.

thats even sadder if you are jewish. your statements are ignorant. the israelis have on occasion held back after attacks. how are they rewarded? yes more attacks. it isn't a cycle of violence when one side poisons its youth, its people at all levels of government, media, religion with calls for israeli blood. it doesn't help that foreigners like hebollah put up bounties of 25k for israeli blood. and as for settlements, there was terror before a single one. if you don't understand that the terror groups think of the entire state of israel as something that must be destroyed, you don't understand the conflict. they are not shy about this, they state that any agreements or 'ceasefires" or whatever else are only the first step in their quest to destroy all of israel. until they are destroyed, there can be no peace.

and as for palestinian babies... if the palestinians were so upset over such things they wouldn't let terrorists hide amoung them. and the fact is israel does what it can to minimize casualties whereas palestinians do the exact opposite. hell much of the time the palestinian terrorists are the ones that hurt their population. it works for them as they can blame u know who and u will eat it up. it is not moral to ask israel to relinquish its right to defend itself from attacks on its civilians.

 

[OokiiNeko]

I see alot of bad info of both sides of this argument.

What IS making the USA look bad, is that we invaded Iraq (the first time) using UN resolutions as the justification.

But now, Israel has been ignoring the UN resolutions to pull back the settlements (actually thumbing their nose at the UN resolutions while building MORE illegal settlements), and the rest of the Arab is looking at the USA thinking:
"Well, how about it USA. Enforce those UN resolutions like you did with Iraq."

The fact that we aren't calling Israel on its invasion, is costing us big time respect and causing no little hatred.

W

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: smc13

Originally posted by: judasmachine
there can simply never be peace while american churches are pouring millions into helping jewish people move to israel so they can build new houses on palestinian land. if a foriegn power was helping huge groups of sometimes violent people move to america to build a house on your property, you'd stone, shoot, and blow them up too.

There is no Palestinian land.

well then why don't we just invent one like we did for the Jewish people.....

 

[surreal1221]

uh yes, we need to drop the middle east like a bad habit. . . but that wont happen, some 50+ million people voted for the religions right to stay in office. Their crusade will only continue, and as such, the US of A will continue to support Isreal.

 

[Boofhead]

Before you cut aid to Israel you might consider cutting aid to Egypt and Jordan first. They are just two countries that need eleemosynary assistance and will do unless they're shown how to fend for themselves.

What did some of these countries do before foreign aid became fashionable?