Let's clear the air on something. Trump never called white supremacists or neo-Nazis "very fine people."

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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
58,746
10,866
126
Fox News was running coverage on how people of southern heritage were protesting the removal of statues. The situation was painted as completely innocent people being hijacked by other, violent, groups. Whether that was ever true or not, that's how Republicans viewed the onset of this event. Democrats ignored any concept of innocent people and just painted over everyone as Nazis. Which, again, maybe that was true, I don't know the composition of everyone gathered.

We know some violence followed and the media drew our attention to a lot of bad people, especially the Nazis. But Republicans were still being fed the narrative of innocent people being responsible for the original gathering. That it was not supposed to be hijacked by others. Trump was obviously speaking towards that idea, as it was sold to him and everyone else watching Fox News. Then Trump condemned Nazis and White Supremacists. Did he expand upon that and make a big speech towards that idea? No. It's Trump.... you should be surprised if he can cobble together a single coherent line. If you expect a strong leader from him... I don't know wtf you are smoking but I want some.

You need to understand where people are coming from. And for that you have to bear witness to the shit Fox News is selling. Only then will you grasp what, and why. And it is hardly as nefarious as is being portrayed. The fixation on "both sides" rather than Trump condemning Nazis from the same speech is a very strong portent for the propaganda at play in modern politics.
So you're portraying Trump, the world's greatest bullshitter, as the victim of Fox bullshit?
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,367
452
126
Around 1:05 mark, admittedly he wasn't clear whom he was talking about but that is Trumps problem he doesn't speak in specifics.

And later on in the press conference he clarifies who the "very fine people" are and they are not neo notsees or antifa.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
58,746
10,866
126
And later on in the press conference he clarifies who the "very fine people" are and they are not neo notsees or antifa.
Yeh, those people exist only in the minds of people who are chumps for Trump. If there were any decent people there to actually protest the removal of the statue they left rather quickly when they saw what was shaping up. That's the both sides of it.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
22,550
7,103
136
This. There were statues being removed and protests against their removal happening at that time, not just in Charlottesville. No doubt there were people there that had zero to do with neonazis or white supremecists that were protesting the removal of those statues. Of course all we see are the two groups battling it out with each other and Trumps diplomacy leads a lot to be desired for sure but ultimately to pretend there weren’t people protesting the removal of the statues is disingenuous.
We are talking about Fri night which only had the Nazis carrying torches. Again if there were fine people there that night Fox News would have found them. They live for that shit.

Were are the images of the very fine people from Fri night torch rally??

I'll answer, there are none because there were no fine people protesting Friday night.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
994
126
We are talking about Fri night which only had the Nazis carrying torches. Again if there were fine people there that night Fox News would have found them. They live for that shit.

Were are the images of the very fine people from Fri night torch rally??

I'll answer, there are none because there were no fine people protesting Friday night.

Trump was not talking about the Nazis. That part is nothing more than the product of the narrative you want.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
22,550
7,103
136
Let me ask you this, if it turns out that not everyone at the protest was a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer (as I've read plenty before), but there were some people that were not white supremacists looking to protest the removal of the statue, would it make a difference to you? Trump made it quite clear that he does not side with white supremacists, nor did he mean them when he said, "very fine people." Yet your type continues to say he did despite his claims, the horse's own mouth, otherwise. I have a feeling it wouldn't matter to you.
That question is moot because Trump lied to you again and you were too stupid to realize.

He makes shit up all the time you continue to kiss his ass.

We all saw the fucking footage yet you would rather believe Trump then your own eyes. Oh yeah If I recall Trump asked his minions to believe him not what they see and hear and you just follow along like a good little boy. You need to turn in your adult card.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,085
1,736
136
And we're laughing at you from over here because you don't understand sarcasm, trolling, figures of speech, etc.
I don't see any of his lies could be described as 'sarcasm' or 'figures of speech', and 'trolling' is simply another name for lying and propaganda. It's a distinction without a difference. Racist trolling is still racism.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
25,247
1,284
126
What I imagine he said was "there are some very fine people among them." He wants to never alienate the grossly irreverent people who are in his camp. Their votes count as much as those of the righteous. Hold your nose.
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
10,876
800
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They represent the mixed history of America.
And if that historical figure represented some terrible human qualities and unconstitutional (now) practices, why the heck would they want the statue to stay? Could it be that those "ordinary" people actually ARE bigoted? I thought racists were only on the left these days?
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
994
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And if that historical figure represented some terrible human qualities and unconstitutional (now) practices, why the heck would they want the statue to stay? Could it be that those "ordinary" people actually ARE bigoted? I thought racists were only on the left these days?

So you're saying if someone wanted the statue to stay, they must be bigots? Perhaps you missed the pic I posted earlier in the thread, a mixed groups with a person of color that were for keeping the statue? Is he a bigot? There are lots of people through American history that had terrible qualities, slave owners that are on our currency. If I hope we keep George Washington on our dollar bills (though I personally don't care) that wouldn't make me a bigot.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
25,500
4,942
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So you're saying if someone wanted the statue to stay, they must be bigots? Perhaps you missed the pic I posted earlier in the thread, a mixed groups with a person of color that were for keeping the statue? Is he a bigot? There are lots of people through American history that had terrible qualities, slave owners that are on our currency. If I hope we keep George Washington on our dollar bills (though I personally don't care) that wouldn't make me a bigot.
George Washington isn't on the dollar bill because he was a slave owner. These statues were erected specifically because they fought to keep slavery legal. If they didn't fight to keep slavery legal, nobody would ever know who they were.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
10,876
800
126
So you're saying if someone wanted the statue to stay, they must be bigots? Perhaps you missed the pic I posted earlier in the thread, a mixed groups with a person of color that were for keeping the statue? Is he a bigot? There are lots of people through American history that had terrible qualities, slave owners that are on our currency. If I hope we keep George Washington on our dollar bills (though I personally don't care) that wouldn't make me a bigot.
Unless they have some concrete/steel fetish then yeah they probably ARE bigoted if they support keeping those statues. As dank69 mentioned, those statues are of people who specifically fought to keep bigotry entrenched. Did they have many other redeeming qualities?

Heck, they LOST the war...not much to celebrate...I mean who likes losers anyway...? :D
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,838
2,570
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And if that historical figure represented some terrible human qualities and unconstitutional (now) practices, why the heck would they want the statue to stay? Could it be that those "ordinary" people actually ARE bigoted? I thought racists were only on the left these days?
Some interesting background info here. Most Southern honor was given between 1900-1920. Widespread attacks on their heritage did not begin until 2015?

Others regard Lee as a United States General who, when the nation was divided, served his part of the nation with honor and distinction. A man who played an instrumental part in the orderly surrender of the South. Who represents the South militarily and historically. For all those who died in honor of their homes. Part of the Civil War was reunification, the reconciliation where those folks were no longer declared traitors but once again our brothers and sisters. Where we stood as one, united, nation again - full honors for service and all.

To attack Southern heritage is a violation of said reunification. For what reason has this peace been disturbed, to what end? We knew what the South had done back when peace was made. Back when our nation was restored. We conquered them, we laid down the law, but then we reconciled with them. Those who actually fought the South, those who saw loved ones injured or killed. They knew the cost of war, of deep divisions. They saw fit to chart a new course. And in the time of their grandchildren, the South was fully allowed to honor its part, its history, and its sacrifices made during the Civil War.

Now we disregard the honor and history of the South. Today they may be too few in number or cause to actually stand for themselves. But this is not a conflict we need right now, when a line in the sand is drawn it polarizes people. Every decade that passed has helped fade the South into distant memory. Until something polarizes it. Lights a flame under their arses that demands a response, demands action and organization. You kick a sleeping dog, now it is mustering to bite back. And in order to do so, they might very well fall victim to the propaganda of actual White Supremacists and Nazis. If they'll be the only groups not to attack the South. If they are the only ones who would keep the peace with them. You've driven them right into the arms of extremists.

Something faded is growing manifest again. All because some idiots had to go and kick a hornets nest before it was fully depleted. At a time when this nation needed to avoid it the most. Where inflammatory social media polarizes and threatens to tear us all apart, where targeting the South does nothing but fan the flames.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
25,500
4,942
126
Some interesting background info here. Most Southern honor was given between 1900-1920. Widespread attacks on their heritage did not begin until 2015?

Others regard Lee as a United States General who, when the nation was divided, served his part of the nation with honor and distinction. A man who played an instrumental part in the orderly surrender of the South. Who represents the South militarily and historically. For all those who died in honor of their homes. Part of the Civil War was reunification, the reconciliation where those folks were no longer declared traitors but once again our brothers and sisters. Where we stood as one, united, nation again - full honors for service and all.

To attack Southern heritage is a violation of said reunification. For what reason has this peace been disturbed, to what end? We knew what the South had done back when peace was made. Back when our nation was restored. We conquered them, we laid down the law, but then we reconciled with them. Those who actually fought the South, those who saw loved ones injured or killed. They knew the cost of war, of deep divisions. They saw fit to chart a new course. And in the time of their grandchildren, the South was fully allowed to honor its part, its history, and its sacrifices made during the Civil War.

Now we disregard the honor and history of the South. Today they may be too few in number or cause to actually stand for themselves. But this is not a conflict we need right now, when a line in the sand is drawn it polarizes people. Every decade that passed has helped fade the South into distant memory. Until something polarizes it. Lights a flame under their arses that demands a response, demands action and organization. You kick a sleeping dog, now it is mustering to bite back. And in order to do so, they might very well fall victim to the propaganda of actual White Supremacists and Nazis. If they'll be the only groups not to attack the South. If they are the only ones who would keep the peace with them. You've driven them right into the arms of extremists.

Something faded is growing manifest again. All because some idiots had to go and kick a hornets nest before it was fully depleted. At a time when this nation needed to avoid it the most. Where inflammatory social media polarizes and threatens to tear us all apart, where targeting the South does nothing but fan the flames.
Southerners need to to stop denying the fact that most of these statues were erected specifically to remind n*****s of their place in society during the civil rights era. That is it. They can try to hide behind all of the other excuses they want but we aren't buying the shit they are selling. If they want to try biting again we can put them down for good this time.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,838
2,570
126
It was a Nazi rally. The people there were Nazis. It is frankly insane that conservatives will defend Trump’s transparent lies about this.
People so divided as to experience two different realities are not inherently insane. Just deeply divided and polarized. Each seeking their own set of facts. The question is, are our actions helping us heal, or causing further harm? Are we capable of seeing both perspectives and able to reconcile them, or are we just dismissing each other as evil and putting an end to civil discourse?

There was certainly a Nazi rally held there that day. No doubt that it. Those people should be condemned. But I distinctly remember Fox News painting a very different picture for Republicans to follow. One that focused on innocent Southerners losing their heritage, their honor. Victims of aggressors. People to be aggrieved for, to care about, to speak for. A group OTHER than the Nazis. The President clearly spoke to that end, for those people he was told were involved. The narrative Fox News initially championed in those first few days.

I see this as a similar issue to Islam and Terrorism. And the question of how we approach Muslims and how we handle polarizing them against us. People who honor the South are in a similar position. With Nazis (terrorists) calling to them for support. And a general American public trying to label them all the same, and string them all up together. It's a bad situation for trying to diffuse tensions and resolve conflict. When people think making peace means helping Muslim terrorists Nazis.

Who will stand for the innocent Muslims, the innocent Southerns, caught in the middle of these conflicts?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
58,746
10,866
126
So you're saying if someone wanted the statue to stay, they must be bigots? Perhaps you missed the pic I posted earlier in the thread, a mixed groups with a person of color that were for keeping the statue? Is he a bigot? There are lots of people through American history that had terrible qualities, slave owners that are on our currency. If I hope we keep George Washington on our dollar bills (though I personally don't care) that wouldn't make me a bigot.
Yeh, the tiny & indistinct image looks like they paid a black homeless guy to pose for a modest price. It's meaningless w/o context. You knew that, of course. And it's just one black person.

A person doesn't have to be a bigot to defend monuments to southern "heroes", just ignorant & insensitive. How does a black grandfather explain it to his grandson? What does it tell that kid? Why is it still there & who raised it?
 

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