Lets assume Manafort is convicted

[Greenman]

and Trump pardons him. Then based on information that comes out in the Manafort trial, Trump is impeached. Can congress reverse the pardon? As I remember from civics 101 (and it was about that many years back) there is no mechanism in place to reverse a presidential pardon. But in the case as I described it, it seems as though there should be something congress could do. I can't believe we'd need a constitutional convention to reverse a pardon given by one of the perpetrators.

 

[vi edit]

Presidential pardons are absolute.
Nothing can block them.

 

[IronWing]

Nope, a Presidential pardon sticks. If it can be shown that Manafort violated state law, there may be an venue to convict him where the President has no pardon authority.

 

[Greenman]

Presidential pardons are absolute.
Nothing can block them.

That's what I thought, but this would be a pretty unique circumstance.

 

[vi edit]

There's also some other concerns of the pardon being an admission of guilt. Manafort can be compelled to testify and can't plead the fifth.

 

[Jhhnn]

There's also some other concerns of the pardon being an admission of guilt. Manafort can be compelled to testify and can't plead the fifth.

That only applies to the pardoned offenses. His rights under the 5th amendment are preserved for all other matters.

 

[dank69]

That's what I thought, but this would be a pretty unique circumstance.

That's why it's important for Americans not to give Presidential powers to lifelong criminals. Imaginary criminals like the Clintons would be okay, but actual demonstrable criminals like Trump, Americans should be smart enough not to just give someone like that absolute power.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If its taxes, his State could and would likely prosecute however I'd guess Manaford would flee to the Ukraine.

 

[cytg111]

Mmmm.. What would one of my icons do, Dave Chappelle... Knock him tf out, sprinkle some crack on him, call the cops. Done deal.

 

[compuwiz1]

Manafort is f@cked. That should be pretty clear by now, that his life as he knew it, is over. He's soon gonna be a student of state pen. Actually, he already is, since his bail was revoked. I don't think he's gonna see the outside again, while he's alive. Crime doesn't pay.

 

[cytg111]

Id like insight into why he hasnt flipped (assuming it isnt pardon related) and why Trump at some point "according to sources" went from a state of fear and disarray of the possibility of Manafort flipping to a firm conviction that he wouldnt. I am thinking death by novichok to all your family or something similar.. speaking of novi, recent events in Brit-land serves as a nice demonstration.

 

[tweaker2]

Trump must be having many sleepless nights, given how he portrays all the classic signs of a guilty cowardly crook running away from the hangman's rope. He's been trying every trick in the book and even creating new ones to get Mueller off his trail. He's so panicked he can't even think straight enough to keep from digging his grave ever deeper. That's clearly not the behavior of an innocent victim of circumstances and something that must really energize Mueller's efforts to find, fix and finish Trump's run from justice.

It's not like Trump can hide behind his bevy of lawyers whenever he creates problems for himself like he did "on the outside". He's now accountable to the folks he works for of which he stupidly thought were just the ones that voted for him and not the majority that didn't.

The shithead just never could wrap his head around the idea that it's impossible to run the country like he did his business "empire" where he was the omnipotent overlord dictating terms to any and all that he employed although he sure did give it his best cockeyed shot at it.

 

[mikeymikec]

Presidential pardons are absolute.
Nothing can block them.

I'd guess a competent party would be keeping tabs on Trump in such a potential situation and make immediate moves to stop the pardon from taking effect, e.g. "oops, we lost the pardon paperwork and in the meantime, we've impeached Trump".

 

[compuwiz1]

Id like insight into why he hasnt flipped (assuming it isnt pardon related) and why Trump at some point "according to sources" went from a state of fear and disarray of the possibility of Manafort flipping to a firm conviction that he wouldnt. I am thinking death by novichok to all your family or something similar.. speaking of novi, recent events in Brit-land serves as a nice demonstration.

Maybe the simple answer is, he doesn't have anything to flip about. He's in trouble for his own issues, unrelated to his campaign manager job, which was of short tenure. He may not have any useful info on Trump. That is entirely plausible.

Michael Cohen is the one Trump should be most worried about. Like I said, I doubt Manafort has anything of substance on Trump.

 

[mikeymikec]

Maybe the simple answer is, he doesn't have anything to flip about. He's in trouble for his own issues, unrelated to his campaign manager job, which was of short tenure. He may not have any useful info on Trump. That is entirely plausible.

Michael Cohen is the one Trump should be most worried about. Like I said, I doubt Manafort has anything of substance on Trump.

Wasn't it Manafort's case that was referred by the Russia investigation to local authorities who then dug a bit deeper and handed back to the Russia investigation?

 

[cytg111]

Maybe the simple answer is, he doesn't have anything to flip about. He's in trouble for his own issues, unrelated to his campaign manager job, which was of short tenure. He may not have any useful info on Trump. That is entirely plausible.

Michael Cohen is the one Trump should be most worried about. Like I said, I doubt Manafort has anything of substance on Trump.

- It might be? But plausible as in "likely to be true" - I would not go that far by far! I'd say its possible but I certainly wouldnt put money down on it unless you gave me like 50 to 1.

Wasn't it Manafort's case that was referred by the Russia investigation to local authorities who then dug a bit deeper and handed back to the Russia investigation?

You got a link for that?

 

[compuwiz1]

Wasn't it Manafort's case that was referred by the Russia investigation to local authorities who then dug a bit deeper and handed back to the Russia investigation?

Yes, but so far Manafort had his own dealings in Russia, pre Trump, and has worked for previous presidents. At this point, those dots don't connect. I'm sure more will come, but so far his activities have only been exposed, as a result of the investigation. Mueller is going to investigate everyone associated with Trump, but when you start turning stones, you never know what you'll find.
Manafort could flip, and start making things up, to pull his own fat from the fire, but one must be careful of doing that, due to false testimony being tossed out of court, or potential perjury charges, if there is no evidence to back up the things he says.

Bottom line is, if Trump hangs, I doubt it will be Manafort that does it.

 

[interchange]

Well he's only facing his financial crimes right now. If we head down that road, it suggests there would be plenty to charge him with as a conspirator in Russian election interference. I'm not too concerned that Manafort will escape justice completely, but if he does to end the Trump nightmare I'm ok with that.

 

[mikeymikec]

You got a link for that?

No, I honestly have trouble keeping track of just how deep various people are in the shit. Isn't there a dedicated thread for this (or at least a topic related enough that this was discussed at great length)? I had it on my watch list for a while.

 

[compuwiz1]

No, I honestly have trouble keeping track of just how deep various people are in the shit. Isn't there a dedicated thread for this (or at least a topic related enough that this was discussed at great length)? I had it on my watch list for a while.

The wrecking ball is going to take many, many people out. Maybe, when it's all over, some rogue crane operator will take down the Trump tower too. It could happen.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Id like insight into why he hasnt flipped (assuming it isnt pardon related) and why Trump at some point "according to sources" went from a state of fear and disarray of the possibility of Manafort flipping to a firm conviction that he wouldnt. I am thinking death by novichok to all your family or something similar.. speaking of novi, recent events in Brit-land serves as a nice demonstration.

The dots may not connect. Manafort got caught for crimes committed prior to the Trump campaign, and the charges against him were leverage for Manafort to spill the beans on either collusion or obstruction of justice related to Trump.

Manafort may not have beans to spill.

 

[mikeymikec]

In an attempt to find information about my previous question, I found this semi-related nugget:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e0979f5b2ed3

As his business was gasping, Manafort was tapped to run Trump’s campaign in mid-2016. He received no pay for the job, even though his firm was losing hundreds of thousands of dollars a month, according to election filings and evidence presented to the jury.

Trying to pay Manafort’s bills became a problem, Washkuhn testified, and he needed more than $1.1 million to pay off credit cards and other expenses.

“$120K is urgently needed for your personal bills,” Washkuhn wrote to Manafort in one email presented in court. Manafort’s company also was struggling to pay its bills. In an email to Gates in April 2016, Washkuhn warned that the firm’s health insurance was going to be canceled because the bill had not been paid.

Emphasis mine. Surely there has to be some back-channel stuff going on there?

 

[compuwiz1]

In an attempt to find information about my previous question, I found this semi-related nugget:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e0979f5b2ed3



Emphasis mine. Surely there has to be some back-channel stuff going on there?

Every politician and lobbyist has back-channel stuff going on. It's been that way since the beginning of time. None of them are above it.
Here's a thought. If Obama had come into office, under some scrutiny, then fired his, then FBI director, that would have most likely triggered a special counsel, same as with Trump. From that point forward, every Obama associate would be under investigation. The net effect would be lots of Democrats would be indicted and facing prison sentences. The special counsels go after the low hanging fruit first, nibbling their way to the top. Politicians and Lobbyists are not clean and it doesn't matter which party they hail from, the left wing and the right wing share a lot in common with the same bird....money.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

In an attempt to find information about my previous question, I found this semi-related nugget:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e0979f5b2ed3



Emphasis mine. Surely there has to be some back-channel stuff going on there?

What, you don't find it normal for someone drowning in debt in a state of complete desperation to take a high profile potentially high paying job for no money out of the goodness of his heart?

 

[vi edit]

Maybe Manafort is playing the game of Pardon Chicken hoping that a pardon is coming instead of flipping. If it's the choice of jail vs accidental suicide via 6 bullets in the back of the head, jail may sound like a better option.