Let us remember Abraham Lincoln

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Something the righties can use a reminder on - the essential importance of labor in creating wealth, since they give all the credit to the top:

Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights. Nor is it denied that there is, and probably always will be, a relation between labor and capital producing mutual benefits.
First State of the Union Address (3 December 1861)

Labor is the superior of capital?

Sorry, I'm pessimistic. Try it in today's world; I have (and I've seen many others' attempts).

Fact of the matter is that capital is king, and he who has the bucks makes the rules.

Unfortunately the 21st century isn't much like the 19th. There just weren't many lawyers and huge well-funded companies around then to rip off the builders of 'better mousetraps' etc.

Fern

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Something the righties can use a reminder on - the essential importance of labor in creating wealth, since they give all the credit to the top:

Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights. Nor is it denied that there is, and probably always will be, a relation between labor and capital producing mutual benefits.
First State of the Union Address (3 December 1861)

Ah abraham lincoln, not only the savior of the union and all things holy but also an expert of the dismal science.

Epic fail.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: colonel
after the civil war, US Army was the best in the world, God bless the USA

during the war, both armies were the best in the world and their continued presence had the collective powers of Europe scared to death of what they might do when done fighting each other.


on the other topic, a CSA victory (which most likely would have been a military stalemate situation where peace talks resolved the conflict) could have been a boon for states rights.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Craig234
Something the righties can use a reminder on - the essential importance of labor in creating wealth, since they give all the credit to the top:

Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights. Nor is it denied that there is, and probably always will be, a relation between labor and capital producing mutual benefits.
First State of the Union Address (3 December 1861)

Labor is the superior of capital?

Sorry, I'm pessimistic. Try it in today's world; I have (and I've seen many others' attempts).

Fact of the matter is that capital is king, and he who has the bucks makes the rules.

I've rarely see someone miss the point as badly as this.

Unfortunately the 21st century isn't much like the 19th. There just weren't many lawyers and huge well-funded companies around then to rip off the builders of 'better mousetraps' etc.

Fern

Or this. It has nothing to do with ripping off builders of better mousetraps. As much as I realized we differed, I did not until now realize you were this far being ideological.

When he says labor is the superior of capitol, he's saying that in terms of what actually creates the wealth of our nation, what's actually important, what should morally be protected, is labor ahead of capital. The reason he's saying that is because the tendency is for cpital to gain too much power and dominance over labor, and he thinks that the government should protect labor rights to balance that.

You are simply restating what he says is the problem, except that you ignore that he's saying it's a problem, and you say it's ok.

Yes, capital tends to dominate labor. That's what he's saying the problem is, that it shouldn't be allowed to do so.

We have all kinds of laws passed later protecting labor from capitol, from safety to overtime pay to sex harrassment and countless more.

You don't argue anything to justify those laws; under your ideology, capital would get rid fo all of them. Lincon's the one who was making the case for them.

 

[txrandom]

Originally posted by: Fern
Or, since only a few industries in some sections of the South ever relied on slavery, and since slavery was dying out anyway given it's unpopularity and expense (machines were well on the way) it was gonna disappear anyway.

Then we'd have been left with with an European Union type system with two fairly symbiotic economies.

Without all the killing, destruction and anymosity caused by the illegal war, would one half of the nation allowed another country to invade their neighbor? Unlikely IMO. Most realize when your neighbor is gone that you're next. It would've been in the North's/South's interest to come to the other's defense. its' simple common sense.

British influence? Over who?

I can't see it extending to either the North or the South. The so-called Scotch-Irish in the South sure as h3ll wouldn't have stood for that.

You seem to think that cotton and sugar can be grown all over the South, might wanna visit it or read a book because that's simply not true.

Extending to South America? How? Look at a map please, you can't get to SA from the South except by boat. We share no borders. If you're thinking of Texas, it was not in Confederacy, nor is it considered 'Southern'.

Fern

I guess my Texas History teacher taught me wrong. I could have sworn we were in the confederacy.

Anyways, Texas was in the confederacy. Whether or not it is part of the South is moot since it was part of the confederacy.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: txrandom

Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

-snip-

I heard it form Eski the 1st time (he posted the same thing days ago in this thread)

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Craig234
-snip-

Labor is the superior of capital?

Sorry, I'm pessimistic. Try it in today's world; I have (and I've seen many others' attempts).

Fact of the matter is that capital is king, and he who has the bucks makes the rules.

I've rarely see someone miss the point as badly as this.
I think you managed to top it with your post here.

Unfortunately the 21st century isn't much like the 19th. There just weren't many lawyers and huge well-funded companies around then to rip off the builders of 'better mousetraps' etc.

Fern

Or this. It has nothing to do with ripping off builders of better mousetraps. As much as I realized we differed, I did not until now realize you were this far being ideological.
No, not ideological - pessismistic as I clearly stated above.

It's my little 'rant' against the system today

When he says labor is the superior of capitol, he's saying that in terms of what actually creates the wealth of our nation.....
Tell it to the robots and machines that produce our products. I don't mean to demean manual labor, but in virtually all cases it simply can't produce the kind of wealth we're now accustomed to.

Yes, capital tends to dominate labor. That's what he's saying the problem is, that it shouldn't be allowed to do so.
Well, I didn't get that from the snippet you posted. But yes, obviously I agree that capital dominates

We have all kinds of laws passed later protecting labor from capitol, from safety to overtime pay to sex harrassment and countless more.

You don't argue anything to justify those laws; under your ideology, capital would get rid fo all of them. Lincon's the one who was making the case for them.
Again, I do not speak of any ideology, just 'hard' experience

See bolded

Fern

 

[txrandom]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: txrandom

Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

-snip-

I heard it form Eski the 1st time (he posted the same thing days ago in this thread)

Fern

Let me guess you also believe everything you hear on TV or read in the Enquirer?