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Let me see your papers Stop & Frisk polarizes New York

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Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,699
138
106
7-3-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/insight-under-siege-stop-frisk-polarizes-york-050442831.html

Let Me See Your Papers:


"Stop and frisk" polarizes New York

Telly Hudgins has been stopped and frisked by the police too many times to count in the Brownsville, New York, public housing project where he lives. One occasion sticks in his memory. "I had my pajamas on and my slippers on and I'm emptying my garbage" at the trash chute. "They asked me for ID to prove I lived there. Who walks around in their pajamas with ID?" asked the black, 35-year-old counselor for the mentally handicapped. He says he complained about the search and was issued a summons for disorderly conduct.

Police stops in New York City have climbed steadily to more than 685,000 last year from nearly 161,000 in 2003.

A Reuters analysis of more than 3 million stops from 2006 through 2011 shows that by far the densest concentrations fell in areas of public housing, home to many of the city's poorest families and where 90 percent of residents are black or Hispanic. Although one would expect a heavy concentration of police stops in these densely populated areas, the stop rate is disproportionate: In 2011, police stopped people in these areas at a rate more than three times higher than elsewhere in the city, the analysis found.


The study also shows that more than half the searches happened not on the streets and paths around these buildings but inside them - in stairwells, lobbies and corridors.

Last spring, years after the pajama incident, Hudgins stepped out of an elevator in his building as a pair of cops were getting in. As it often does on Mondays, Hudgins said, the elevator smelled of alcohol. Police stopped him, saying they suspected he was drinking alcohol from the cup in his hand. They insisted he hand over his drink, sniffed it, and told him it smelled like alcohol, Hudgins said. No, he insisted; it was a mix of iced tea and lemonade. There in the lobby of his own building, at the age of 34 and with no criminal record, Hudgins was issued two tickets - one for disorderly conduct and another for having an alcoholic beverage in an open container.


Hudgins had had enough. He filed a formal complaint with the city's Civilian Complaint Review Board. Both summonses were eventually dismissed, according to court records provided by Hudgins. "You can be stopped on any given day, for anything," he said. "It's humiliating."

Vanessa Chandler, 47, who is black, said she has lived in city housing on Brownsville's Sutter Avenue since she was a child, and that aggressive policing in the area is intrusive.


"If I go back to my building in the morning because I forgot my bus pass, they are on you with, ‘Why did you go into that building and back out again?' Or if I walk outside to check the weather and go back in, it's the same thing," she said. "I mean, don't you step outside to check the weather where you live, officer?"
I would have no problem if these cops were drug out into the street stripped naked and shot in the face.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Meanwhile, crime has dropped off dramatically in New York.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City

No doubt it's frustrating when the cops are aggressive in your neighborhood, to the point of bothering a certain number of innocent people. No doubt it's more than frustrating to worry about being mugged, beaten or raped every time you walk out of your door. That isn't freedom. The irony is that these communities have in the past complained that the cops won't do anything about the crime that is going on there, but when they decide to do something about it, you get complaints about police harassment. It's inevitable, I suppose.
 

the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,956
1
81
Meanwhile, crime has dropped off dramatically in New York.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City

No doubt it's frustrating when the cops are aggressive in your neighborhood, to the point of bothering a certain number of innocent people. No doubt it's more than frustrating to worry about being mugged, beaten or raped every time you walk out of your door. That isn't freedom. The irony is that these communities have in the past complained that the cops won't do anything about the crime that is going on there, but when they decide to do something about it, you get complaints about police harassment. It's inevitable, I suppose.
Can you point me to the part of Constitution that says you can violate the fourth amendment as long as it reduces crime?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,325
126
Wait, so is this inside their home or the one I pay for? if its the latter then its no different then them being on he street. I don't see a problem here.
Oh I see, so freedom is only granted to those that "pay" or "own" right? You keep saying that, a good argument can be made that regardless of who you paid what that you are simply renting the house that you "own" from the government. Don't believe me, stop paying property taxes for a while and see whose house it really is.

Or how about on your sidewalk directly in front of your home, a sidewalk that I pay for (couldn't give a fuck if you pay part of it too just like you don't give a fuck who else paid for the housing), should you be required to have ID to cross OUR sidewalk in order to put your trash by the curb? What penalty do you suppose you should face if you fail to have ID on you while crossing OUR sidewalk to put your trash out, after you bail yourself out of jail of course?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,325
126
Meanwhile, crime has dropped off dramatically in New York.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City

No doubt it's frustrating when the cops are aggressive in your neighborhood, to the point of bothering a certain number of innocent people. No doubt it's more than frustrating to worry about being mugged, beaten or raped every time you walk out of your door. That isn't freedom. The irony is that these communities have in the past complained that the cops won't do anything about the crime that is going on there, but when they decide to do something about it, you get complaints about police harassment. It's inevitable, I suppose.
We could probably reduce crime to damn near zero if we just got rid of all those pesky rights....
 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
200
106
Oh I see, so freedom is only granted to those that "pay" or "own" right? You keep saying that, a good argument can be made that regardless of who you paid what that you are simply renting the house that you "own" from the government. Don't believe me, stop paying property taxes for a while and see whose house it really is.

Or how about on your sidewalk directly in front of your home, a sidewalk that I pay for (couldn't give a fuck if you pay part of it too just like you don't give a fuck who else paid for the housing), should you be required to have ID to cross OUR sidewalk in order to put your trash by the curb? What penalty do you suppose you should face if you fail to have ID on you while crossing OUR sidewalk to put your trash out, after you bail yourself out of jail of course?
It's called souring the milk you moron.
If you don't like the taste change the supplier of your dairy product.
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
3
76
Its funny, in the projects people bitch when they are asked to show ID.
I have clients in gated communities and it is completely expected that if you are not a familiar face, you will be asked for ID. Not one person has a problem with it, and if they do they can go and not come back. People actually PAY to live where LEO's ask people for ID. It just might behoove these people that are being asked for ID to become part of the community and befriend the LEOs instead of making them out to be the bad guy. There is no need to ask for an ID when you know the guys first name and have shared a coffee a and a story or two.
Your suggestion for someone who lives in the projects and gets asked for ID on a daily basis is to MOVE OUT?!
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
6
0
Oh I see, so freedom is only granted to those that "pay" or "own" right? You keep saying that, a good argument can be made that regardless of who you paid what that you are simply renting the house that you "own" from the government. Don't believe me, stop paying property taxes for a while and see whose house it really is.
If you are living in my house I have the right to set the rules.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
This is happening because the targets are the poor or poor neighborhoods. People need to understand their rights and fight this.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
Can you point me to the part of Constitution that says you can violate the fourth amendment as long as it reduces crime?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Can you point to me where it says that a stop and frisk "violates the 4th Amendment?" Under Terry v. Ohio, you can conduct a stop and risk with "reasonable suspicion," a standard lower than probable cause.

No doubt the cops exceed their bounds in individual cases. But that isn't what we're really discussing here. We're talking about the wider issue.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,117
3,654
126
I love this part the most :thumbsup:

more than half the searches happened not on the streets and paths around these buildings but inside them - in stairwells, lobbies and corridors.
My stomach turned when I read that. I know what you mean... just reading that section...

Last spring, years after the pajama incident, Hudgins stepped out of an elevator in his building as a pair of cops were getting in. As it often does on Mondays, Hudgins said, the elevator smelled of alcohol. Police stopped him, saying they suspected he was drinking alcohol from the cup in his hand. They insisted he hand over his drink, sniffed it, and told him it smelled like alcohol, Hudgins said. No, he insisted; it was a mix of iced tea and lemonade. There in the lobby of his own building, at the age of 34 and with no criminal record, Hudgins was issued two tickets - one for disorderly conduct and another for having an alcoholic beverage in an open container.
The men who harassed him should be shot.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
3
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http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/07/03/510264/nypd-posts-wanted-flyer-targeting-couple-that-legally-videotapes-stop-and-frisks/

The New York Police Department has put out a “police advisory” flyer warning cops and residents to look out for two “professional agitators,” a Harlem couple who film officers stopping and frisking young New Yorkers of color.

DNAinfo reports that Matthew Swaye, 35, and his partner Christina Gonzalez, 25, came across the poster, complete with mugshots and the official seal of the NYPD’s intelligence division, taped to a podium in the 30th precinct’s public hearing room while attending a precinct council meeting. The flyer listed the home address of the couple and warned:

Be aware that the subjects are known professional agitators that live at [home address]. Above subjects mo is that they video tape officers performing routine stops and post on youtube. Subjects purpose is to portray officers in a negative way and too deter officers from conducting there responsibilities. Above subjects also deter officers from being safe and tactical by causing unnecessary distractions. Do not feed into subjects propaganda.
Glad to see cops standing up for their duty to harass people and use poor grammar.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,214
126
Can you point to me where it says that a stop and frisk "violates the 4th Amendment?" Under Terry v. Ohio, you can conduct a stop and risk with "reasonable suspicion," a standard lower than probable cause.

No doubt the cops exceed their bounds in individual cases. But that isn't what we're really discussing here. We're talking about the wider issue.
So this holds unless the person is an illegal alien in which case the police must release them if the Feds don't come in?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,214
126
And I believe the OP was dead set against Arizona's new laws.
What the OP wants is never clear. On one hand he supports some rights then embraces totalitarianism. Depends on the day. Even now it could be a "see you evil republicans wanted this so good- go choke on it" thing.
 

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