Lest we forget....

[techs]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060828/ap_...ewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Dozens killed in Iraq; 8 U.S. troops die
A surge in bloodshed Monday left nearly 50 people dead in a suicide car bombing and clashes between Shiite militia and Iraqi security forces Monday, in a brutal contradiction of the prime minister's claim that violence was decreasing.

In one of the deadliest weekends for U.S. forces in recent months, the U.S. military said eight U.S. soldiers were killed Saturday and Sunday in and around Baghdad, seven of them by roadside bombs and one by gunfire.

The deaths followed a day of bombings and shootings on Sunday, when more than 60 people were killed across the country, from the northern city of Kirkuk to the capital Baghdad and down to the south in Basra.

In the city of Diwaniyah, gunbattles between Iraqi forces and militiamen of the Mahdi Army loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr left at least 34 people dead and about 70 wounded, Iraqi officials said.


Is there NO end in sight? Are we talking 5-10-50-100 years of US occupation?

 

[KB]

Don't question the war. It will make our enemies more powerful!


Actually Rummie reminds me of Zapp Branigan from Futurama:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapp_Brannigan

"Brannigan is arrogant, incompetent and cocky. His battle tactics are impulsive, generally stupid, and almost always unnecessary. He takes delight in sending his men to die in ridiculous, easily avoidable altercations, viewing this as proof of their loyalty. Notable examples include an (unseen) battle with "Killbots", a battle which Brannigan's forces won by sending wave after wave of his own men at the killbots until they reached their pre-programmed kill limit. He employed similar tactics in defending Earth during the first invasion of the aliens of Omicron Persei VIII "(When Aliens Attack)", ordering all the ships under his command to "line up and fly directly at the enemy death cannons, clogging them with wreckage!". His fleet managed to destroy the Hubble Space Telescope (while suffering heavy losses), but was powerless against the actual alien mothership.

 

[Drift3r]

We got to "stay the course" even if we fly straight off a cliff chanting the Bush mantra.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
We got to "stay the course" even if we fly straight off a cliff chanting the Bush mantra.

I have no problems with "staying the course". Hell, determination is half of getting certain things done. My problem is the particular course we are staying on...Bush's approach got us into this mess, you'll forgive me if I don't trust him to get us out. The metaphor that comes to mind is riding in a truck with Bush driving. He drives us off the highway into a ditch, and then sits there reving the engine, just digging us deeper and deeper. I'm not opposed to getting the truck OUT of the ditch, you understand, I'd just like someone competent to do it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: techs
Is there NO end in sight? Are we talking 5-10-50-100 years of US occupation?

The U.S. is building 8 permanent bases and the largest fortified Embassy in the Middle East.

What makes anyone think the U.S. was going to leave?

Might as well make Iraq the 51st State.

 

[blackangst1]

/sigh

Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. Have you ever looked at the death rate for teens 10-19 per year in the US from suicide? its twice the number killed in Iraq PER YEAR. When is the last time you spent any time in a youth outreach program to make a difference in our kids? Never have? I thought not. How about drunk driving deaths? The deaths in Iraq pale in comparison. When is the last time you offered to be a designated driver? You havent? I thought not. How about the number of deaths per year from AIDS?

Lets try and put things into perspective. Where's the outrage and heartfelt passion for lives lost from PREVENTABLE circumstances? I dont mean to derail your thread, but you have to look at the forest occasionally....

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
/sigh

Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. Have you ever looked at the death rate for teens 10-19 per year in the US from suicide? its twice the number killed in Iraq PER YEAR. When is the last time you spent any time in a youth outreach program to make a difference in our kids? Never have? I thought not. How about drunk driving deaths? The deaths in Iraq pale in comparison. When is the last time you offered to be a designated driver? You havent? I thought not. How about the number of deaths per year from AIDS?

Lets try and put things into perspective. Where's the outrage and heartfelt passion for lives lost from PREVENTABLE circumstances? I dont mean to derail your thread, but you have to look at the forest occasionally....

How do we spell "Specious Argument"?


No, please give US a break; we are to ignore the deaths of our fighting forces simply because teenagers drink and die on the highway?


:roll:

 

[Lemon law]

If we really want to talk about costs, you don't just count the killed. Those that contrute that last full measure of devotion get some sort of a small death benefit for the family, maybe get a gravesite at Arlington, and then just remain as names on a gravesite or monument.

But for everyone who dies, there are many times that number serious wounded, be those wounds physical or mental---or both. Some 22,000 or so at present count. Whose costs in government disability payments can amount to really big bucks over their remaining lifespans----and the lost human resource becomes staggering.

All so some idiot could add war time President to his resume of shame.----someday we will adopt a McGovern like peace plan--sail for home---leaving behind a Iraq infinitely worse off,
and we will call it peace with honor.

After awhile, some group that never spent a second in their lives dodging bullets fired at them, will hatch that new glorious war for other people to die in.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: blackangst1
/sigh

Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. Have you ever looked at the death rate for teens 10-19 per year in the US from suicide? its twice the number killed in Iraq PER YEAR. When is the last time you spent any time in a youth outreach program to make a difference in our kids? Never have? I thought not. How about drunk driving deaths? The deaths in Iraq pale in comparison. When is the last time you offered to be a designated driver? You havent? I thought not. How about the number of deaths per year from AIDS?

Lets try and put things into perspective. Where's the outrage and heartfelt passion for lives lost from PREVENTABLE circumstances? I dont mean to derail your thread, but you have to look at the forest occasionally....

How do we spell "Specious Argument"?


No, please give US a break; we are to ignore the deaths of our fighting forces simply because teenagers drink and die on the highway?


:roll:

Youre pretty good at twisting my words 🙂 Did I say anything about forgetting? And where did I say anything about teen drunk driving? I mentioned teen suicides which outnumber Iraqi war deaths by almost 8:1 per year...best you read and not skim before replying to posts 🙂

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: blackangst1
/sigh

Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. Have you ever looked at the death rate for teens 10-19 per year in the US from suicide? its twice the number killed in Iraq PER YEAR. When is the last time you spent any time in a youth outreach program to make a difference in our kids? Never have? I thought not. How about drunk driving deaths? The deaths in Iraq pale in comparison. When is the last time you offered to be a designated driver? You havent? I thought not. How about the number of deaths per year from AIDS?

Lets try and put things into perspective. Where's the outrage and heartfelt passion for lives lost from PREVENTABLE circumstances? I dont mean to derail your thread, but you have to look at the forest occasionally....

How do we spell "Specious Argument"?


No, please give US a break; we are to ignore the deaths of our fighting forces simply because teenagers drink and die on the highway?


:roll:

Youre pretty good at twisting my words 🙂 Did I say anything about forgetting? And where did I say anything about teen drunk driving? I mentioned teen suicides which outnumber Iraqi war deaths by almost 8:1 per year...best you read and not skim before replying to posts 🙂

Oh, please!

O.K. so teen suicide...either way, you began your post with "Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. "


You really don't understand?
Why should people not be? The deaths of our sons and daughters is a great tragedy, no matter the cause.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
/sigh

Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. Have you ever looked at the death rate for teens 10-19 per year in the US from suicide? its twice the number killed in Iraq PER YEAR. When is the last time you spent any time in a youth outreach program to make a difference in our kids? Never have? I thought not. How about drunk driving deaths? The deaths in Iraq pale in comparison. When is the last time you offered to be a designated driver? You havent? I thought not. How about the number of deaths per year from AIDS?

Lets try and put things into perspective. Where's the outrage and heartfelt passion for lives lost from PREVENTABLE circumstances? I dont mean to derail your thread, but you have to look at the forest occasionally....

Yeah, right...my neighbors lost a son in Iraq. I think I'll show up at the funeral and tell them I don't understand why they are all up in arms, since so many more young people die by suicide and AIDS.

A$$clown.

:thumbsdown:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: blackangst1
/sigh

Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. Have you ever looked at the death rate for teens 10-19 per year in the US from suicide? its twice the number killed in Iraq PER YEAR. When is the last time you spent any time in a youth outreach program to make a difference in our kids? Never have? I thought not. How about drunk driving deaths? The deaths in Iraq pale in comparison. When is the last time you offered to be a designated driver? You havent? I thought not. How about the number of deaths per year from AIDS?

Lets try and put things into perspective. Where's the outrage and heartfelt passion for lives lost from PREVENTABLE circumstances? I dont mean to derail your thread, but you have to look at the forest occasionally....

How do we spell "Specious Argument"?


No, please give US a break; we are to ignore the deaths of our fighting forces simply because teenagers drink and die on the highway?


:roll:

Youre pretty good at twisting my words 🙂 Did I say anything about forgetting? And where did I say anything about teen drunk driving? I mentioned teen suicides which outnumber Iraqi war deaths by almost 8:1 per year...best you read and not skim before replying to posts 🙂

Oh, please!

O.K. so teen suicide...either way, you began your post with "Gimme a break. I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict. "


You really don't understand?
Why should people not be? The deaths of our sons and daughters is a great tragedy, no matter the cause.

Yes it is a tragedy. I've lost a good friend in this war, but you know what? This is what military is for. Whether you agree with the war or not, its a tragedy. A loss always hurts. But every single person who joins the military does so voluntarily, and with full knowledge they may be called to duty. Thats what the military is for. As another good friend of mine who is a 23 year vet in Special Ops once told me, we are trained to go to foreign places and kill people. Period. Thats our job. And every once in awhile, one of us dies.

 

[yllus]

Why do the people who rail against the U.S. abandoning Afghanistan to the Taliban then turn around and advocate doing the exact same thing to Iraq? The invasion and overthrow is a fait accompli, get over it already. It helps noone to abandon Iraq to internal strife, and only serves to embolden your existing enemies. ("We drove the U.S. out of Iraq!")

 

[Aisengard]

yllus, it helps our soldiers and our country and other places around the world who need our help more, to leave Iraq.

 

[yllus]

How so? I fail to see how this is the correct thing to do in Iraq in 2006, when the exact same action in Afghanistan in the 80s is unanimously considered the wrong thing to have done.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: yllus
Why do the people who rail against the U.S. abandoning Afghanistan to the Taliban then turn around and advocate doing the exact same thing to Iraq? The invasion and overthrow is a fait accompli, get over it already. It helps noone to abandon Iraq to internal strife, and only serves to embolden your existing enemies. ("We drove the U.S. out of Iraq!")

No what we do is rearm the Sunnis so they can enslave the Shia again bringing Iran into the conflict and we can do to Iran what they are doing to Israel.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: yllus
Why do the people who rail against the U.S. abandoning Afghanistan to the Taliban then turn around and advocate doing the exact same thing to Iraq? The invasion and overthrow is a fait accompli, get over it already. It helps noone to abandon Iraq to internal strife, and only serves to embolden your existing enemies. ("We drove the U.S. out of Iraq!")

No what we do is rearm the Sunnis so they can enslave the Shia again bringing Iran into the conflict and we can do to Iran what they are doing to Israel.

The way that solves multiple problems in one swipe is oddly enticing. 😀

I actually have to focus on doing some work here for a change, but I'd thought it's worth saying that Iraq is not all sectarian violence and car bombs - there is real progress being made as well. National reformation takes a bit longer than a couple of years to get going, but progress is always paid for in sweat and blood. It's just too bad American blood has to get involved, yet again, to solve other people's problems.

 

[Zebo]

The US will leave one day, and the Islamists, who were almost non-existant in Iraq during the Secular Baath era, will create an Islamic Emirate in the Sunni area. Thanks to USA, Al-Queda and other militant groups found a ground in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. Some militants were there before but most were convinced though a combination of American distruction and the radicals who said join us or die. "Mission Accomplished" indeed. What side is Bush on exactly?

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict.

Enlist. Deploy. Understand. :| :| :|

 

[OutHouse]

such a waste. i feel for the families of the fallen men.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ideally we will get a real President that will get us out of Iraq when we've left Iraq with a viable democratic state, hope, and peace. We owe them a fix for the mess we've made. As part of the healing the Neocons who pushed this thing should appear before the Hague.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: techs
Is there NO end in sight? Are we talking 5-10-50-100 years of US occupation?

The U.S. is building 8 permanent bases and the largest fortified Embassy in the Middle East.

What makes anyone think the U.S. was going to leave?

Might as well make Iraq the 51st State.

Any links? That would just confirm that Iraq is occupied and not "liberated"

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: techs
Is there NO end in sight? Are we talking 5-10-50-100 years of US occupation?

The U.S. is building 8 permanent bases and the largest fortified Embassy in the Middle East.

What makes anyone think the U.S. was going to leave?

Might as well make Iraq the 51st State.

Any links? That would just confirm that Iraq is occupied and not "liberated"

Maybe we should install a totalitarian Dictator like they have in Pakistan to keep the lunatic fringe muslims in check. Wait they already had one and we overthrew him.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: techs
Is there NO end in sight? Are we talking 5-10-50-100 years of US occupation?

The U.S. is building 8 permanent bases and the largest fortified Embassy in the Middle East.

What makes anyone think the U.S. was going to leave?

Might as well make Iraq the 51st State.

Any links? That would just confirm that Iraq is occupied and not "liberated"

Maybe we should install a totalitarian Dictator like they have in Pakistan to keep the lunatic fringe muslims in check. Wait they already had one and we overthrew him to install "American Rule".

fixed

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I have yet to understand why so many people are up in arms about the number of deaths in this conflict.

Enlist. Deploy. Understand. :| :| :|

Enlisting is voluntary. Some soldiers get killed, it sucks. The two women I saw dead on I85 did not have a choice when a car going 120mph crossed the median and hit them. Where is the thousands of posts demanding that we not forget them? Are their lives any less important? As soon as a soldier dies you people make them your martyr.