Lenovo or something else? NO DELL...

[dakotagts]

Been around the lenovo.com site and ran across tons of different options. My father in law needs a 15" monitor widescreen, Core 2, 1gig ram and at least 40gig HD.

He is mainly email and wordprocessing, but needs speed and always has tons of crap running in the background. He is not good with computers, so he is always having things mess-up and has random crashes while just emailing and doing word documents.

Other than that, it is an everyday computer that he does his work on. So it has to be tough enough for everyday use.

I have found these IBM's

https://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/...d=4611686018425309067&langId=-1&dualCurrId=73

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/z-series/zseries_byo_z61m.html

what else and what do you think of these two.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Where is that first link supposed to go?

 

[ubercaffeinated]

macbook?

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: makoto00
macbook?

Unless you HAVE to run OSX, a MacBook is a poor choice in almost any situation.

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: makoto00
macbook?

Unless you HAVE to run OSX, a MacBook is a poor choice in almost any situation.

Going to have to disagree with you there. From what the OP said, if the main user is only emailing and word processing, a MacBook would work just as well as any other Windows based laptop and would be safer and more stable. OSX is more stable and less prone to spyware and viruses, both of which are concerns for people who don't know how to stay away from said malware.

That being said, if the user "is not good with computers" perhaps a generic Windows based laptop would be a good idea if only for the reason that he could get help easier. OP, if you don't think the main user could handle OSX, then perhaps you could setup XP so that it's totally locked down (non-admin account, etc) and setup with Firefox. You'd probably become their support person for the life of that laptop though...

 

[dakotagts]

that is true, and I am that anyway as I am his son-in-law!

No mac, he would go nutz, he has this weird curse where anything that seems normal when doing a task, ISNT! and its not him! Most of the time what I am doing on mine and having him follow on will not work!!! He gets weird warnings from windows that take me hours to solve.

With that said, an IT guy at The U of I told him to get a Lenovo, IBM. and that is what the first link was, both are IBM's but they are different models.

Lenovo 3000 N100

and

Thinkpad z61

I have seen the ASUS and he has a Compaq now. What about HP?

and I told him about my core 2, so he wants that too...

 

[AmigaMan]

HP makes some decent machines about as good as the consumer-level Lenovo's. I wouldn't spend more to get a Lenovo unless it was a T or X series Thinkpad. Personally I wouldn't get a Gateway, Asus, Sony, or Acer. I'd consider an HP, maybe Compaq, and maybe Toshiba. Fujitsu intrigues me, but not enough to buy one.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
HP makes some decent machines about as good as the consumer-level Lenovo's. I wouldn't spend more to get a Lenovo unless it was a T or X series Thinkpad. Personally I wouldn't get a Gateway, Asus, Sony, or Acer. I'd consider an HP, maybe Compaq, and maybe Toshiba. Fujitsu intrigues me, but not enough to buy one.

I've handled a few Lenovo 3000 and IMO they are built better than HP consumer models. I have quite a lot of experience with HP notebooks, but they aren't built the best. Great value overall, generally more features for the money, but the L3K's are built better from my experience.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: makoto00
macbook?

Unless you HAVE to run OSX, a MacBook is a poor choice in almost any situation.

Going to have to disagree with you there. From what the OP said, if the main user is only emailing and word processing, a MacBook would work just as well as any other Windows based laptop and would be safer and more stable. OSX is more stable and less prone to spyware and viruses, both of which are concerns for people who don't know how to stay away from said malware.

That being said, if the user "is not good with computers" perhaps a generic Windows based laptop would be a good idea if only for the reason that he could get help easier. OP, if you don't think the main user could handle OSX, then perhaps you could setup XP so that it's totally locked down (non-admin account, etc) and setup with Firefox. You'd probably become their support person for the life of that laptop though...

IMO OSX should only be considered for people who need it or those who have never used a computer before. A non-computer savvy person who is used to Windows will choke when OSX loads up.

And let's not even get started on the dual booting stuff

 

[dakotagts]

so the lenovo 3000 isnt bad and the thinkpad is the best to go with

I will look around on HP and see what they can compare with...

 

[DeviousTrap]

What's wrong with Dell?

 

[andrewbabcock]

Originally posted by: DeviousTrap
What's wrong with Dell?

I agree. I see nothing wrong with dell. Millions of people use Dells on a daily basis and few complain. They're certainly not known for durability but who cares? As long as you're not some hardcore road warrior, dell is a great buy and a great value. I hate to see people dismiss dell before a thread even starts and before we know what the person's needs are. We just ordered my sister a dell e1505, an absolutely perfect machine for her situation. People who dismiss dells from the outset are noobs plain and simple. For many people, i would point them in the direction of someone else but certainly not for everyone, especially people on a budget. Find me a better value than the xps m1710?

I own a thinkpad x60s and a dell i9300, using both daily. I enjoy both systems just the same for different reasons. Seriously guys, this forum has become so anti-dell it makes me sick. Lets hear the users needs and budget before we dismiss any company. I know the thread starter implied no dell in the topic title, equally as bad, but the so-called experts on this board need to be real experts instead of "ok just don't get a dell." Thats not expertise thats just stupidity. I really don't care about personal experiences of a few when i know that many have had uneventful experiences with Dell. Once a users situation is assessed can we say "don't get a dell."

If you want to say something negative about dell say something like:
"In my personal experience, Dell has not been a good choice. That being said many people love their dells and you probably will too."

EDIT: As it turns out, Dell e1505 is nearly perfect for your father's situation. In this case, there is really no reason to spend extra on "quality." All these companies use essentialy the same exact components under the hood. Its not like Lenovo puts in the good processors from Intel while dell puts in factory rejects. I've used e1505s many times and fine them to be fine machines.

 

[dakotagts]

Dell= NO

Quick story, he bought one a few years back, he had an issue with viewing sizes, and told dell he wanted to return it. They played games with him and cause mass CHAOS. So his first words were no Dell. I have a Dell 4550 and I love it, now its my wifes computer. So its not the OP (Me) that dismissed dell...

BTW, I see lots of posts where people dismiss a brand, I dont think its a hate dell thing (unless its a hate Mac thing =) )

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: makoto00
macbook?

Unless you HAVE to run OSX, a MacBook is a poor choice in almost any situation.

Going to have to disagree with you there. From what the OP said, if the main user is only emailing and word processing, a MacBook would work just as well as any other Windows based laptop and would be safer and more stable. OSX is more stable and less prone to spyware and viruses, both of which are concerns for people who don't know how to stay away from said malware.

That being said, if the user "is not good with computers" perhaps a generic Windows based laptop would be a good idea if only for the reason that he could get help easier. OP, if you don't think the main user could handle OSX, then perhaps you could setup XP so that it's totally locked down (non-admin account, etc) and setup with Firefox. You'd probably become their support person for the life of that laptop though...

IMO OSX should only be considered for people who need it or those who have never used a computer before. A non-computer savvy person who is used to Windows will choke when OSX loads up.

And let's not even get started on the dual booting stuff

sigh...and people think Mac users are fanboys. but whatever... :roll:

 

[6000SUX]

The major fault with Dell is customer support. IMO it's the worst in the business for home consumers.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: makoto00
macbook?

Unless you HAVE to run OSX, a MacBook is a poor choice in almost any situation.

Going to have to disagree with you there. From what the OP said, if the main user is only emailing and word processing, a MacBook would work just as well as any other Windows based laptop and would be safer and more stable. OSX is more stable and less prone to spyware and viruses, both of which are concerns for people who don't know how to stay away from said malware.

That being said, if the user "is not good with computers" perhaps a generic Windows based laptop would be a good idea if only for the reason that he could get help easier. OP, if you don't think the main user could handle OSX, then perhaps you could setup XP so that it's totally locked down (non-admin account, etc) and setup with Firefox. You'd probably become their support person for the life of that laptop though...

IMO OSX should only be considered for people who need it or those who have never used a computer before. A non-computer savvy person who is used to Windows will choke when OSX loads up.

And let's not even get started on the dual booting stuff

sigh...and people think Mac users are fanboys. but whatever... :roll:

mmmmmmmmK

It has nothing to do with fanboyism. It is a simple fact that Windows pervades the computer industry and that is what like 95%+ people know how to use. MacBook's are fine machines, but unless you need OSX it really is more of a bother than it is worth for most people. Dual-booting is not a secure, stable environment and anyone with a remotely important use of the machine would do well to avoid it. I'm not saying it can't function as a fine day-to-day platform with XP on a Mac, but unless you're the kind of person who can afford downtime it is not an advisable route.

I'm sorry you disagree with me, but that doesn't make you automatically right. This IS a discussion forum you know

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
The major fault with Dell is customer support. IMO it's the worst in the business for home consumers.

Dell offers good support....if you pay for it.

 

[andrewbabcock]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
The major fault with Dell is customer support. IMO it's the worst in the business for home consumers.

Dell offers good support....if you pay for it.

Agreed. Or with their regular support just yell as many curse words as you can in a row and they will connect you with someone thats actually qualified to help you.

 

[AmigaMan]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: AmigaMan

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: makoto00
macbook?

Unless you HAVE to run OSX, a MacBook is a poor choice in almost any situation.

Going to have to disagree with you there. From what the OP said, if the main user is only emailing and word processing, a MacBook would work just as well as any other Windows based laptop and would be safer and more stable. OSX is more stable and less prone to spyware and viruses, both of which are concerns for people who don't know how to stay away from said malware.

That being said, if the user "is not good with computers" perhaps a generic Windows based laptop would be a good idea if only for the reason that he could get help easier. OP, if you don't think the main user could handle OSX, then perhaps you could setup XP so that it's totally locked down (non-admin account, etc) and setup with Firefox. You'd probably become their support person for the life of that laptop though...

IMO OSX should only be considered for people who need it or those who have never used a computer before. A non-computer savvy person who is used to Windows will choke when OSX loads up.

And let's not even get started on the dual booting stuff

sigh...and people think Mac users are fanboys. but whatever... :roll:

mmmmmmmmK

It has nothing to do with fanboyism. It is a simple fact that Windows pervades the computer industry and that is what like 95%+ people know how to use. MacBook's are fine machines, but unless you need OSX it really is more of a bother than it is worth for most people. Dual-booting is not a secure, stable environment and anyone with a remotely important use of the machine would do well to avoid it. I'm not saying it can't function as a fine day-to-day platform with XP on a Mac, but unless you're the kind of person who can afford downtime it is not an advisable route.

I'm sorry you disagree with me, but that doesn't make you automatically right. This IS a discussion forum you know

you're right, I do disagree with you and I know I'm not automagically right. I wrote that while the Panthers were pretending to be football players in the first half and I was pissed. No excuse though.

However...I don't understand why you think that dual-booting isn't secure? Why isn't it stable? I've been dual-booting various OS's for several years now (since Windows 95) and haven't any problems. What's with the FUD? You make it sound like OSX is a non-stable, non-secure OS that isn't suitable for daily use. Do you use it and have personal experience? If not, then do you really know what you're talking about. I don't mean to make it sound like you're an idiot, but really, how do you know something is what you say it is with having used it?

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: AmigaMan
However...I don't understand why you think that dual-booting isn't secure? Why isn't it stable? I've been dual-booting various OS's for several years now (since Windows 95) and haven't any problems. What's with the FUD? You make it sound like OSX is a non-stable, non-secure OS that isn't suitable for daily use. Do you use it and have personal experience? If not, then do you really know what you're talking about. I don't mean to make it sound like you're an idiot, but really, how do you know something is what you say it is with having used it?

I don't mean to indicate OSX is insecure or non-stable; there is nothing wrong with OSX, it is just that most people don't know how to use it and most software is not written for it.

Instead what I'm saying is for someone to purchase a machine which they rely heavily on and use it for very important tasks, counting on being able to use an un-supported feature as your primary use for the machine is flat out a bad idea. I've had this discussion before with another person and articulated my thoughts quite well there, so pardon me if it isn't as clear this time. Essentially all I'm saying is that anytime you have to rely on something and you're using it in a non-official, un-supported way, you're asking for trouble. If you have any issues with XP on Mac, you won't get support for it and there is no "fast and easy" way to fix things and get them back to operating status except for doing it yourself. For some people this is fine, however for the majority of notebook purchasers this just isn't the case.

I think running XP on a Mac would be a cool experience and give me a chance to really learn OSX, which I would love. However there is no chance in hell I would do this as my primary machine. My daily work and really daily life revolves around my primary computer (sad, isn't it?) and neither myself nor most busy computer users have the time, knowledge (not so in my case), or patience to deal with an un-supported, non-certified way of operating your machine. With my ThinkPad, I have any number of ways to fix any large failure issues - whether it be hardware or software - quickly, efficiently, and minimizing downtime as much as possible, all supported by Lenovo. You have ZERO supported ability to do so with a Mac running XP. It is not a smart choice for users who rely heavily in their primary machine, unless you're using OSX primarily and just playing with XP. For the tech savvy, this is not so much an issue. But even the tech savvy like myself who have no time for downtime, it is still not a wise choice.

$0.02

 

[dakotagts]

Can we get back on topic...

I am still looking for some links to good core 2 notebooks around $1000, also in your honest opinion will there be better deals when dec. 1 rolls around?

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: dakotagts
Can we get back on topic...

I am still looking for some links to good core 2 notebooks around $1000, also in your honest opinion will there be better deals when dec. 1 rolls around?

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/notebooks/3000/n-series/nseries_byo_n100_15_core2.html
$1049 - T5500(1.66GHz), 1GB RAM, 80GB 5400rpm HD, 15.4in 1280x800 LCD, Intel 950, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11abg wireless, Bluetooth/Modem, 10/100 Ethernet, IEEE 1394, 6c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/z-series/zseries_byo_z61m.html

ThinkPad Z61m 9450FKU
CustomizeCustomize
9450FKU $1,163.00 $36.52 1 $1,163.00 $36.52
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T5500 (1.66GHz, 2MB L2, 667MHz FSB) (Standard) 1
Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP Professional 41U3118 1
Display type: 15.4 inch WXGA TFT (1280x800) (Standard) 1
Memory: 512MB PC2-5300 CL5 NP DDR2 SDRAM SODIMM 40Y7741 1
Memory: 1GB PC2-5300 CL5 NP DDR2 SDRAM SODIMM 40Y7742 1
Graphics: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 (Standard) 1
Ports: 3 USB 2.0, IEEE 1394, 3-1 digital media reader (SD/MMC/MS), S-Video out, External Display, External Microphone/Line-In, Headphone / Line out (Standard) 1
Hard drive: 60GB 5400 rpm SATA Hard Drive 41N8330 1
Optical device: 24x/24x/24x/8x Max CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo Ultrabay Enhanced Drive 41N8337 1
Integrated communication: 56K V.92 Designed Modem (Standard) 1
Integrated Ethernet: Integrated Gigabit Ethernet (Standard) 1
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN: Wi-Fi wireless upgradable and Bluetooth (Standard) 1
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wireless LAN MiniPCI Express Adapter 41A4070 1
Keyboard: ThinkPad Fullsize (Standard) 1
Pointing device: ThinkPad UltraNav (Standard) 1
Battery: ThinkPad 9 Cell Li-Ion Battery 40Y6798 1
Security: Client Security Solution (CSS) (Standard) 1

Add the warranty of your choice (I recommend the Lenovo Care/ThinkPad Protection plan for accidental coverage, its great not worrying if you bust your laptop) and you're set.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: andrewbabcock

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: 6000SUX
The major fault with Dell is customer support. IMO it's the worst in the business for home consumers.

Dell offers good support....if you pay for it.

Agreed. Or with their regular support just yell as many curse words as you can in a row and they will connect you with someone thats actually qualified to help you.

No, that's not true.

 

[HomeyFoos]

Ya, I have often wondered if there are really that many people who have had terrible experiences with Dell. For years, I just took the advice of others and avoided them like the plague. Of course, a Dell Desktop is pretty pointless for me as I've been building my own systems for a bit now. But even laptops and monitors I would just eliminate from consideration. And like andrewbabcock said, it seems kinda premature to rule out any product unless you have had a horrible incident with them or their service. So in the case of the OP's Father-In-Law, I understand. Is there any possibility he'd reconsider? Cause when I see the title of the thread, my first thought is 'that guy would be happy with my dell'. Only because there is really no denying their place in the market. They offer a pretty damn good product for the price. They do have lapse's in quality. But if you are talking consumer-grade, they share those problems with Lenovo, Toshiba, Sony, HP/Compaq, Fujitsu, etc.

If he has to have non-dell, I would say listen to fbrdphreak. That dude knows his stuff. Lenovo business class is nice.

Quick question, have you ever considered a whitebox or barebones Asus? The reason I ask is because I have a T2500, a gig of ram, and a 2.5" notebook lying around and I was going to build a machine out of it. I googled 'asus barebones notebook' and through the search, I found a few sites that have configurable machines that you can get bare for ~$850? Sometimes less for the Core Duo Yonah CPU.

Like this one...

http://www.directron.com/z62f.html

$439 is not bad. You figure you can get Ram, a HD, and a Yonah CPU for not much money (compared to the cost of this machine pre-built - could be as much as $1400 but more like $1200-$1300 on the high end?). I realize this may not tantalize a guy who is not into computers but if he could get passed it being a whitebox (and of course, get your help in putting the parts in), he could stand to have a really powerful machine that you know exactly what is in it. And if I have calculated correctly, save some $$. I will almost certainly pick one up soon, just waiting for a whitebox 14.1" w/ a game-able GPU.

Anyway, good luck, I'm not trying to bang Dell's drum, but like andrewbabcock, I sometimes wonder how bad things got before you just said 'screw dell'. I'm sure it was deserving, I just think it's hard to eliminate them ahead of time cause they are so cheap.

 

[dakotagts]

So it looks like I will steer him towards the IBM lenovo's. I told him if he can wait till the first of december, then we may find even better deals. Should I go through IBM's site or is there a better place for a discount?

Ohh I also noticed that all notebooks for most places are coming with a free upgrade to Vista depending on the XP you get... Does IBM have that?