Leica M8

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
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The Leica M8
I'll be honest, I know nothing about this camera, but I dont get it! It costs $5K. It looks so simple (almost like a P&S) yet they compare it to cameras like Canon EOS 5D and Nikon D200. It's classified as a rangefinder camera...whats that? Plus it doesnt look very comfortable to hold with the lack of a grip. But I have to admit that the sample pics look stunning.

Why would anyone get this over the 5D or D200? (honest question. Not a rhetorical one)
 

tdawg

Platinum Member
May 18, 2001
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A rangefinder operates differently from an SLR in that you don't look thru the lens on a rangefinder. There are other differences, but for anybody picking one up would have to come to terms with that pretty quick. :)

Other than that, you'll have to talk to the Leica fans (fanatics?) as to why this camera is so cool. Personally, I really wouldn't mind if someone handed me one of these to play with. It takes you back to the older techniques of photography before all this newfangled equipment and technologies.
 

virtuamike

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2000
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Very different viewing and shooting experience. It's elegance in refined simplicity. Plus you get to use Leica optics *drools* :D
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
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For most of my childhood my father shot all his pictures with a Leica like one of these (I think the IIIF) and it produced gorgeous slides It became mine when he bought a Minolta SRT-101 and I used it through high school and even as late as 1991.
 

corkyg

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Mar 4, 2000
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I came very close to buying one last summer when I was in Germany. It was solid - but the price was for the body only, and a family of Leitz lenses would have almost tripled the acquisition cost. Like the man said - it is the lenses.

Here is the DP Review of that model and how Leica overcame problems transitioning from film to digital in the M series.

M8

My dad used a IIC, and I have that in my collection. A sweet little RF camera but a PITA to load the film in. My first SLR was the Minolta ST-101 also.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: virtuamike
Very different viewing and shooting experience. It's elegance in refined simplicity. Plus you get to use Leica optics *drools* :D

Is it one of things where I have to use to understand it? How is the viewing and shooting experience different?
 

ElFenix

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Originally posted by: Aharami
Originally posted by: virtuamike
Very different viewing and shooting experience. It's elegance in refined simplicity. Plus you get to use Leica optics *drools* :D

Is it one of things where I have to use to understand it? How is the viewing and shooting experience different?


SLR, you look through the lens and you see slightly less of the scene than what will end up on film (unless you have a pro SLR)

rangefinder you look through a separate optical tunnel. the field of view of the finder is independent of the lens, and is usually much larger than what will appear on film. to show you what part of the finder will show up on film there are frame lines in the finder, usually selectable. this allows you to a) instantly know if there is a better composition b) anticipate stuff moving into and out of the frame.

in the middle of the finder is the rangefinder patch. basically, it works on triangulation. with a coupled rangefinder, changing the focus on the lens moves a tiny mirror in the body, which reflects over to the patch. when the images in the patch line up, you're focused.

because you're not looking through the lens, macro photography is practically impossible, and longer telephoto focal lengths also aren't useful (both are hard to focus).

rangefinders are typcially less intrusive than SLRs. as there is no mirror there is no mirror sound, or mirror slap. leicas traditionally used a cloth shutter which was very quiet. because there is no mirror slap a rangefinder can be hand held longer than the 1/focal length formula common for SLRs.

rangefinders also are better for wide angle, at least on film. SLRs, because of the mirror box, have a long register depth from the back of the lens to the film plane. rangefinders have no mirror box, so the lens can extend deep into the body of the rangefinder (it also makes a rangefinder thinner than a comparable SLR). this allows a wide angle lens to be made without retrofocal elements. so the lens has less distortion and other optical negatives. due to microlenses this isn't an advantage with digital cameras (an RF would vignette severely).

rangefinders, due to the lack of a mirror box, can be smaller and lighter than SLRs (though leicas are all metal so they're pretty damn heavy, probably brass rather than magnesium to boot).


the traditional advantages of leica, in particular, are extremely good optics and the build quality of a tank.



as for the point n' shoot comment, compact cameras of the 60s and 70s were all rangefinders.




RF basically led all the way until nippon kogaku debuted the nikon F in 1959. they might have continued to lead the market had nikon not debuted the whole system, lenses, flashes, metering finders, angle finders, everything, at the same time.




to address the question in the thread title, the point of the M8 is to separate money from wealthy people.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
to address the question in the thread title, the point of the M8 is to separate money from wealthy people.

:D. Thanks for the explanation.
 

ElFenix

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Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: touchmyichi
The leica Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 lens is to die for.

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/leica/m8/

This is from the M8 gallery, the 3 pictures on the left all have the lens- look at that Bokeh!

almost $4000 for a 50mm normal lens , wow

canon EF 50 f/1.0L lenses run that much when they go up for sale. and i daresay the leica is better. look for yourself

no idea how much the 50 f/0.95 is. and don't forget you have to buy a canon 7 to use it.

edit: ok you can get a 50 f0.95 and canon 7 from ritz for $1500
 

Anubis

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Aug 31, 2001
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tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: touchmyichi
The leica Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 lens is to die for.

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/leica/m8/

This is from the M8 gallery, the 3 pictures on the left all have the lens- look at that Bokeh!

almost $4000 for a 50mm normal lens , wow

canon EF 50 f/1.0L lenses run that much when they go up for sale. and i daresay the leica is better. look for yourself

no idea how much the 50 f/0.95 is. and don't forget you have to buy a canon 7 to use it.

edit: ok you can get a 50 f0.95 and canon 7 from ritz for $1500

1500?? shit not bad

i wish to god someone would make a 50 f/1.0 for a nikon monut, liek Zeiss, as they now make lenses for nikon agin

o god just thinking about it make me feel funny inthe pants
 

kalster

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2002
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Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: touchmyichi
The leica Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 lens is to die for.

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/leica/m8/

This is from the M8 gallery, the 3 pictures on the left all have the lens- look at that Bokeh!

almost $4000 for a 50mm normal lens , wow

canon EF 50 f/1.0L lenses run that much when they go up for sale. and i daresay the leica is better. look for yourself

no idea how much the 50 f/0.95 is. and don't forget you have to buy a canon 7 to use it.

edit: ok you can get a 50 f0.95 and canon 7 from ritz for $1500

1500?? shit not bad

i wish to god someone would make a 50 f/1.0 for a nikon monut, liek Zeiss, as they now make lenses for nikon agin

o god just thinking about it make me feel funny inthe pants

zeiss screw mount lenses can adapted to the nikon right? they have been making m42 lenses for a while, they probably have a very fast 50mm in m42 mount
 

soydios

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Mar 12, 2006
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I'm not sure if there's enough physical space inside the Nikon F-mount to make an autofocus lens larger than f/1.4, or manual focus larger than f/1.2.
 

Zenmervolt

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Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: soydios
I'm not sure if there's enough physical space inside the Nikon F-mount to make an autofocus lens larger than f/1.4, or manual focus larger than f/1.2.

A 500mm f/5.6 lens requires a much larger entrance pupil than a 50mm f/1.4, yet it remains quite possible to build a 500mm f/5.6 lens for the F-Mount. 500/5.6 = 89.29mm diameter entrance pupil, 50/1.4 = 35.71mm diameter entrance pupil; you could build a 50mm f/0.6 lens without needing a larger entrance pupil than that 500mm f/5.6.

The diameter of the mount is not the limiting factor.

ZV
 

ElFenix

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try a 50 f/0.6 and see what you come up with for the exit pupil size.
 

virtuamike

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Oct 13, 2000
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Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: touchmyichi
The leica Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 lens is to die for.

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/leica/m8/

This is from the M8 gallery, the 3 pictures on the left all have the lens- look at that Bokeh!

almost $4000 for a 50mm normal lens , wow

canon EF 50 f/1.0L lenses run that much when they go up for sale. and i daresay the leica is better. look for yourself

no idea how much the 50 f/0.95 is. and don't forget you have to buy a canon 7 to use it.

edit: ok you can get a 50 f0.95 and canon 7 from ritz for $1500

1500?? shit not bad

i wish to god someone would make a 50 f/1.0 for a nikon monut, liek Zeiss, as they now make lenses for nikon agin

o god just thinking about it make me feel funny inthe pants

zeiss screw mount lenses can adapted to the nikon right? they have been making m42 lenses for a while, they probably have a very fast 50mm in m42 mount

afaik nope :(
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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lord that bokeh is absolutely wonderful....i looked at the canon 50mm f/1.0 and the boca on the leica is simply so much more attractive to me. although are those pics all done with the 1.0? Some of those pics (The girl with the umbrella) seems the DOF is too deep for a 50mm 1.0
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: Aharami
Originally posted by: touchmyichi
The leica Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 lens is to die for.

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/leica/m8/

This is from the M8 gallery, the 3 pictures on the left all have the lens- look at that Bokeh!

i think this is the best bokeh Ive ever seen in my life
http://www.flickr.com/photos/msmelva/906004472/

seriously....in the future I may just have to look at another system because I haven't been able to produce anything near this kind of bokeh with my 50/1.4
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
try a 50 f/0.6 and see what you come up with for the exit pupil size.

The size of the exit pupil is the merely the size of the projected image of the aperture stop in the downstream optics. It's not used in the calculations of F-stop at all.

F-stop is the ratio of entrance pupil size to focal length. The exit pupil does not factor into the equation anywhere. The only thing that the exit pupil affects is the incidence angle of light hitting the sensor, and even this is controlled by how far the exit pupil ("exit pupil" is the term for the point in space from which the light gathered by the lens appears to originate) is from the film/sensor surface, not by the diameter of the exit pupil.

ZV
 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: ElFenix
try a 50 f/0.6 and see what you come up with for the exit pupil size.

The size of the exit pupil is the merely the size of the projected image of the aperture stop in the downstream optics. It's not used in the calculations of F-stop at all.

F-stop is the ratio of entrance pupil size to focal length. The exit pupil does not factor into the equation anywhere. The only thing that the exit pupil affects is the incidence angle of light hitting the sensor, and even this is controlled by how far the exit pupil ("exit pupil" is the term for the point in space from which the light gathered by the lens appears to originate) is from the film/sensor surface, not by the diameter of the exit pupil.

ZV

i know what an f-stop is, thank you very much. but go ahead and ignore the point and go off on whatever tangent you want. if your exit pupil is too small you will vignette the image. i don't think you can design a 50 f/0.6 for traditional 35 mm photography mounts that doesn't severely vignette and create an effectively smaller aperture because the size of the exit pupil limits the amount of light the lens can pass. maybe an exotic lens design could do it.

obviously canon puts this much glass at the rear of the lens for a reason
the 85 f/1.8 uses less glass at the rear.

if you poke around on photozone, you'll see that the 135 f/2, despite having a larger front element than the 85 f/1.8 (almost as big as the 85 f/1.2 in fact) appears to use less glass at the rear than the 85 f/1.8. seems to me that there is a relationship between f-stop and rear element size.