Legendary Journalist Bill Moyers Says He Fears For The Nation For The First Time In His Life

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The problem with having someone like Trump as President is that not only does he harm the U.S. in the short term he undermines people's faith in government in the long term. People haven't been this devided since the Vietnam war. It damn near made me crazy then and now I'm too tired to go to war. I'm going to retire next year and am moving to a sparsely settled area in NM. If any crazy Trumptards get too close and can't be persuaded to shut up and have a beer, I'll shoot em, shovel em and, shut up about em.

 

[fskimospy]

From a sufficiently detached point of view, the sides do start to look the same. I could enumerate dozens of American traits that most of us hold to a degree. The way we live our lives from day to day is mostly the same. If we were able to temporarily delete anything from view that had to do with politics, a lot of us would get really hard to tell apart. The problem with ideologues is that they are captivated by minutiae and lose sight of the big picture. To me, salvaging some cohesiveness as a nation is the most serious issue facing us today, but few are willing to acknowledge it. We're tearing ourselves apart way faster than that criminal activity you are so worried about ever could.

The president corruptly wielding his power to rig the next election in his is the Overturn of democracy and the destruction of the constitution as it currently exists. Only one side supports this.

If anything attitudes like yours are one of the biggest problems because they ensure that there are no consequences to acting this way. If people like yourself demanded that Trump be thrown in prison or you would vote out anyone who tried to stop that then the country would not be in such dire straits.

One of the true diseases afflicting our country is for someone to see a criminal president and those trying to stop him and decide that the problem is not enough compromise on it.

 

[crashtech]

@fskimospy , I knew the response in your second paragraph was inevitable. Centrists like me are "one of the biggest problems." That signals the end of reasonable discussion for now, imo. Thanks for engaging, though, I appreciate it.

 

[ivwshane]

@fskimospy , I knew the response in your second paragraph was inevitable. Centrists like me are "one of the biggest problems." That signals the end of reasonable discussion for now, imo. Thanks for engaging, though, I appreciate it.

You aren't a centrist, you are a fence sitter. A centrist avoids extremes, upholding the rule of law and holding a president to a minimum standard isn't extreme. Ignoring abuses of power and clear violations of the constitution is extreme and your unwillingness to call a spade a spade and not take a stance for or against something makes you a fence sitter.

The fact that you aren't even willing to address eski's point only validates his claim.

 

[sandorski]

One can not defend he indefensible, but many try.

 

[crashtech]

You aren't a centrist, you are a fence sitter. A centrist avoids extremes, upholding the rule of law and holding a president to a minimum standard isn't extreme. Ignoring abuses of power and clear violations of the constitution is extreme and your unwillingness to call a spade a spade and not take a stance for or against something makes you a fence sitter.

The fact that you aren't even willing to address eski's point only validates his claim.

The fact that I have deliberately avoided taking partisan stances in this thread does not prove any of your attacks against your strawman of me. You don't seem to be able to stick to the ideas without making it personal. Too bad.

 

[fskimospy]

@fskimospy , I knew the response in your second paragraph was inevitable. Centrists like me are "one of the biggest problems." That signals the end of reasonable discussion for now, imo. Thanks for engaging, though, I appreciate it.

Why do you view criticism of your position as the end of reasonable discussion?

You should invite criticism.

 

[IronWing]

The fact that I have deliberately avoided taking partisan stances in this thread does not prove any of your attacks against your strawman of me. You don't seem to be able to stick to the ideas without making it personal. Too bad.

The centrists are outraged at Republican antics and criminality as they should be. You pretend all these folks who are fed up with the abject stupidity and destructiveness of the far right are leftists when it simply isn't true for the vast majority. It's another transparent attempt to paint the far right as more moderate than they really are by claiming the middle ground for yourself when you are in fact far from it. The Republican Party is a fascist party and has been been for decades. Trump simply shows the Republican ass to the world more than his more tactful predecessors. There is no left counterpart to the Republican Party in modern American politics. Sanders is about as far left as American politicians get and he barely qualifies as a social democrat.

 

[crashtech]

Why do you view criticism of your position as the end of reasonable discussion?

You should invite criticism.

I'm reasonably certain that I won't persuade anyone of anything. Sometimes I just like to say my piece, but I'll admit I don't have the temperament or fortitude to go to the mat for it, not usually. I mean it's pretty obvious from the characterizations that are being put forth that I'm about a gnat's ass away from being declared a Trumptard or what have you. Not my idea of fun. So bye for now.

 

[ivwshane]

The fact that I have deliberately avoided taking partisan stances in this thread does not prove any of your attacks against your strawman of me. You don't seem to be able to stick to the ideas without making it personal. Too bad.

It does when it’s related to your position, criticisms that you’ve failed to address and continue to fail to address.

 

[ivwshane]

I'm reasonably certain that I won't persuade anyone of anything. Sometimes I just like to say my piece, but I'll admit I don't have the temperament or fortitude to go to the mat for it, not usually. I mean it's pretty obvious from the characterizations that are being put forth that I'm about a gnat's ass away from being declared a Trumptard or what have you. Not my idea of fun. So bye for now.

You are projecting. The only one not willing to discuss anything beyond stating opinions, is you. You remind me of another poster who likes to lay criticisms and opinions and refuses to discuss them when challenged.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm reasonably certain that I won't persuade anyone of anything. Sometimes I just like to say my piece, but I'll admit I don't have the temperament or fortitude to go to the mat for it, not usually. I mean it's pretty obvious from the characterizations that are being put forth that I'm about a gnat's ass away from being declared a Trumptard or what have you. Not my idea of fun. So bye for now.

I haven’t said any of that. I asked you for ideas of what we should do and I’ve criticized your ideas but I’ve never tried to mischaracterize anything you’ve said.

I’m asking you if we could all embody exactly what you want, what would that be? (Broadly)

 

[JEDIYoda]

The centrists are outraged at Republican antics and criminality as they should be. You pretend all these folks who are fed up with the abject stupidity and destructiveness of the far right are leftists when it simply isn't true for the vast majority. It's another transparent attempt to paint the far right as more moderate than they really are by claiming the middle ground for yourself when you are in fact far from it. The Republican Party is a fascist party and has been been for decades. Trump simply shows the Republican ass to the world more than his more tactful predecessors. There is no left counterpart to the Republican Party in modern American politics. Sanders is about as far left as American politicians get and he barely qualifies as a social democrat.

I nominate this as response of the year!!!
You deserve a big thumbs up!!

 

[sportage]

Well I for one just don't get it.
I don't get how or why once seemingly normal patriotic republicans can fall on their sword supporting Donald Trump?
What happened to them?
What does Donald Trump have on them to force their undying loyality?
This is like the movie INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS, where you have one guy like George Kent who sees things clearly and know right from wrong. Then, the republicans put on this show where anything goes when it comes to Donald Trump.
The same with Bill Taylor. He too is the level headed American patriot and clearly sees it for what it is, yet republicans act like they are either as corrupt as Trump, or from another planet.
This is totally nutz.
Are these republicans from pods, from Mars, living on the moon?
Why are they so insistent that Trump has done nothing wrong, and absolutely refuse to open their eyes to the truth?
Again I ask.... what is it Donald Trump has on them?
Is Donald Trump really a soviet agent? Are they all soviet agents? Does that explain it?
Could they all be Russian commies?

 

[ch33zw1z]

The centrists are outraged at Republican antics and criminality as they should be. You pretend all these folks who are fed up with the abject stupidity and destructiveness of the far right are leftists when it simply isn't true for the vast majority. It's another transparent attempt to paint the far right as more moderate than they really are by claiming the middle ground for yourself when you are in fact far from it. The Republican Party is a fascist party and has been been for decades. Trump simply shows the Republican ass to the world more than his more tactful predecessors. There is no left counterpart to the Republican Party in modern American politics. Sanders is about as far left as American politicians get and he barely qualifies as a social democrat.

Nailed it.

 

[feralkid]

Centrists like me are "one of the biggest problems."

I served with Centrists. I know Centrists. Centrists are friends of mine. Sir, you're no Centrist.