Left Vs. Right - Do We Have Irreconcilable Differences?
- Thread starter HardcoreRobot
- Start date
- Nov 7, 2000
- 16,403
- 3
- 81
Get the entire health care reform package, with the public-option changed to public-only, passed so that hyperbole repuggies will have brain aneurysms.
Absolutely. There are fundamental differences that cannot be reconciled otherwise there would be no left or right.
It's interesting that you bring this up, as I was just discussing this with my students a few days ago. I'm teaching an Operations Research course this semester and I was discussing Linear Programming. For those of you unfamiliar, in a nutshell, it's one way (of many) to mathematically model a problem in order to find an optimal solution. You basically define your variables, then constraints, then you define the objective which is subject to those constraints. When properly defined, you end up with an enclosed area bound by a line representing each constraint, and your objective "pushes" you to a vertex of this area, with the idea being that said vertex is your optimal solution.
One student had the idea of trying model best-outcomes for government policies. Realistically speaking, the notion is absurd, but it spawned some very interesting discussion, especially when people started considering the constraints that we would need to impose. It quickly became apparent that it would be impossible to define any constraints without creating an invalid model (one with no enclosed area caused by conflicting constraints).
Of course, our discussion was an awful simplification of one of humanity's most complex problems, made even more complex by differing values, agendas, and priorities. Regardless, it was fun to talk about. I continued reflecting on this for a couple days. Finally I realized that I can't even reconcile several of MY OWN ideas... how the hell can it be possible for our government or society to make any inroads whatsoever.
Political agreement is impossible, for many of us cannot even agree with ourselves. The notion that we can convince someone else of our position is downright hysterical, even if you remove the element of ego.
One student had the idea of trying model best-outcomes for government policies. Realistically speaking, the notion is absurd, but it spawned some very interesting discussion, especially when people started considering the constraints that we would need to impose. It quickly became apparent that it would be impossible to define any constraints without creating an invalid model (one with no enclosed area caused by conflicting constraints).
Of course, our discussion was an awful simplification of one of humanity's most complex problems, made even more complex by differing values, agendas, and priorities. Regardless, it was fun to talk about. I continued reflecting on this for a couple days. Finally I realized that I can't even reconcile several of MY OWN ideas... how the hell can it be possible for our government or society to make any inroads whatsoever.
Political agreement is impossible, for many of us cannot even agree with ourselves. The notion that we can convince someone else of our position is downright hysterical, even if you remove the element of ego.
I want low taxes and limited government. Leftist bastards want high taxes and an expansive welfare state. Those are irreconcilable differences.
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
- 641
- 126
Extreme left and extreme right - most certainly. There will never be a meeting of the minds between those two groups.
Poll after poll shows the majority of Americans to be right of center. Theoretically, we should be able to reach agreements. But the system is designed to have us fighting amongst ourselves. It distracts us from what's really going on.
It's extremely effective.
Poll after poll shows the majority of Americans to be right of center. Theoretically, we should be able to reach agreements. But the system is designed to have us fighting amongst ourselves. It distracts us from what's really going on.
It's extremely effective.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
This. Other than the extremists on both sides I believe that most people want to improve the world around them. They just have a different view of how to improve the world. Any animosity between the sides is purely ego, trying to enforce the idea that there is only one right way and that is their way.
Politics is a lot like religion in that sense. At least with the right they're obviously religious and defend their ideas with the same fervor. The same defense can't be made of the left, who love to talk about the separation of church and state when in fact their religion IS the state.
How about, instead of possibly being trapped by the need for a perfect solution, we content ourselves with one that generally models some broad ranged consensus, with the emphasis on contentment. The Buddha seems to be happy not because he has solutions but because contentment eliminates the need for them.
Well, LP doesn't go after the "perfect" solution... it goes after the most "optimal." The idea being that the "perfect" solution (one not bound by constraints) is unreachable. In our case, the "optimal" solution is the one that yields the most contentment.
GuitarDaddy
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2004
- 11,465
- 1
- 0
Your attempt at politially correct partisanship fails, let me spin it the other way for you
At least the left is socially concious and truely cares about their fellow man. The same can't be said of the right, who love to talk about religion when in fact their religion IS greed and the relentless pursuit of putting themselves above their fellow man.
Irreconcilable because modern politics is pure identity politics. Once you've allowed the party to become part of your identity, you lose the ability to think rationally and pragmatically about any given problem and solution. This is part of the ego mentioned above.
I see people on these boards constantly repeat hyperbole, sometimes after having been provided with evidence to the contrary. There is simply no excuse for this. We are posting on these boards utilizing the greatest tool for information dissemination ever devised in the history of mankind, and people don't take the time to investigate even the most basic of claims. We have people who don't know even understand the fundamentals of American history, world history, political science, and economics. If you have a view or opinion, you should be able to give a cogent explanation as to why you hold it. An explanation based in empirical evidence.
And my condemnation doesn't stop at AT. Mainstream media encourages this behavior by obfuscating the truth, omitting the truth, or only telling half the truth. Things like Glenn Beck's Common Sense which is "inspired by Thomas Paine." I'm not sure how many of you here read Thomas Paine, but Common Sense was not the only thing he's written. Thomas Paine also wrote the Rights of Man, Part II in which he recommends England impose a strong progressive tax on the wealthy, basically give welfare to the poor, provide free public education, institute a program that looks an awfully lot like Social Security, and drastically reduce the size of the army and navy. But this is how modern politics work. We ascribe beliefs to people that never had them, ignore beliefs when they don't agree with our own, and be sure to hide any damaging evidence to our belief structure from people who parrot what we say. It's pathetic.
The correct policy should be pragmatic in nature, dealing with both man's need to compete and succeed and be a part of a community of other humans. We need to be both selflish and caring as both are natural results of our evolution. Any economic and/or social paradigm that ignores either of these aspects is going to fail. Rand was no less an idealist than Marx.
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