Lebanese PM: We don't want the Palestinians

[SamurAchzar]

http://www.yalibnan.com/2010/09/24/president-suleiman-to-u-n-lebanons-interests-must-be-part-of-any-solution/

President Michel Suleiman warned the international community that Lebanon will “not accept” any agreement that goes against its interests.

Suleiman said that Lebanon reserves the right to liberate the country’s occupied land—including the Kfar Shouba hills, the Shebaa Farms and the northern half of Ghajar village—by all permissible and legitimate means, on Friday in his address to the UN General Assembly.

“Lebanon will not accept any solution to the Middle East if it contradicts its supreme national interests,” Suleiman told the U.N. Security Council in New York.

“Lebanon is still looking forward to a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East on all tracks on the basis of the Madrid Conference and. resolutions of international legitimacy and the Arab Peace Initiative,” he said in a speech prior to his speech before the General Assembly later Friday.

Suleiman demanded that “the international community must oblige Israel to withdraw, without preconditions, from the Lebanese territories it is still occupying, knowing that we preserve the right to reclaim the occupied territories through all possible means,” adding “Israel’s constant threats against Lebanon and planting spy networks require a firm and a deterrent stance from the international community.”

“While Lebanon abides by UN Security Council Resolution 1701, Israel continues to violate Lebanon’s sovereignty,” he said, calling on the international community to take a stance against the Jewish State.

Suleiman addressed the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, reiterating Lebanon’s opposition to the naturalization of Palestinian refugees within its territory. He also said that Israel’s continued settlement building obstructs the possibility of achieving peace.

“Lebanon reiterates its condemnation of international terrorism, from which it had suffered, and there must be a differentiation between it (terrorism) and the legitimate resistance to occupation,” he added.

Israel and the Palestinians began the long-awaited direct peace talks on September 2, but the negotiations have been threatened by the possibility that Tel Aviv will not renew its settlement freeze at September 26. The Palestinians have vowed to leave the talks if settlement building begins again.

The president also called for more support to de-mine Lebanon and reiterated Beirut’s demand for Israel to compensate Lebanon for the losses Tel Aviv inflicted through the mines and cluster bombs it dropped.

“Lebanon affirms its right to its water and petroleum resources, which it is working to extract on the borders and especially those delineated southward according to the map that the UN laid out,” he added.

The parliament on August 17 approved an oil draft bill that authorizes the exploration and drilling of oil and gas fields off the shore of Lebanon.

Suleiman also commended the work of UNIFIL and voiced the importance of continued cooperation between the Lebanese army and the peacekeepers.

Suleiman traveled to New York on Thursday for the 65th session of the UN General Assembly, which began on September 14.

Read carefully between the usual Arab drivel, and you'll find the gem in bold. What happens now is that both Lebanon and especially Jordan are pressing for an agreement that will allow them to drive out the Palestinian refugees.

Now, here's the interesting bit:

1) Some of these "refugees" are from 1967, but most of them (especially the ones in Lebanon) date back to the war of 1948. Back in 1948, many Palestinians temporarily left their villages while the war against newly born Israel was raging by more than 6 Arab nations; they expected that in few days, Israel would be crushed and they'd be back, with control of the entire Palestine. That didn't work out too well, as you know.

Today they are the group with the longest standing "refugee" status. While it is partially because of the hosting countries - who, without exception, deny them from gaining formal status, and partly because they are interested in preserving the refugee status, in hopes of settling in Israel as part of an agreement (not to mention a chance of Israel's annihilation).
Those that left Palestine in 1948 are mostly no longer alive, and most of the "refugees" are 2nd and 3rd generations who still - with the active encouragement from the fools of this world - look to build a homeland on the ruins of Israel.

There are refugee camps inside Israel as well, whose inhabitant block any attempt to develop (whether by Israel itself or by international bodies) as it might hinder their claims of being refugees.

2) Both the Jordanians and the Lebanese are shaking from the thought of Palestinians destabilizing their countries. Jordan is especially sensitive to that, being that the country is about 80% Palestinian - the monarchy is, basically, an oppressive regime.

3) About 800,000 now-Israels were in fact Jews living in Arab states, that became refugees after Israel's victory at the Six Days War. The Muslims, who didn't like the Arab pride going down the toilet, started a wave of violence against Jews, destroying their holy places and taking possession of their properties. These Jewish refugees were, by this chain of events, forced to settle in Israel, mostly without any property. My grandfather came from a very wealthy Jewish Egyptian family that was forced to leave their country from the fear of being murdered (they were forced to leave their property behind).

From Wiki:

It is estimated that 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jews were forced from their homes or fled the Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970s; 260,000 reached Israel between 1948–1951, and 600,000 by 1972.[2][3][4] The Jews of Egypt and Libya were expelled while those of Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon and North Africa left as a result of physical and political insecurity. Almost all were forced to abandon their property.[3] By 2002 these Jews and their descendants constituted about 40% of Israel's population.[4] One of the main representative bodies of this group, the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries, (WOJAC) estimates that Jewish property abandoned in Arab countries would be valued today at more than $300 billion[5][6] and Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands at 100,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the state of Israel).[2][6] The organization asserts that a major cause of the Jewish exodus was a deliberate policy decision taken by the Arab League.[7]

800,000, with exodus that's well more recent than that of the Palestinians. You never hear about this, don't you?

 

[Jhhnn]

Israeli dishonesty knows no bounds. It was Israel who set off the whole population migration in 1948 when they refused to allow Palestinians who'd fled the violence to return to their homes, and then more when they pre-emptively attacked in 1967. And they got what they wanted when Jews left other areas in the middle east for Israel- a jewish population to replace the palestinian one they'd effectively evicted. It's how they got their Jewish State.

Israeli policy from that time forward in no way even attempts to address the problem they created- they just push it off on the states who originally took palestinian refugees. They might even be able to make a deal with the Lebanese to take the Pals living there as citizens in return for giving back the Lebanese territory they occupy. Not a chance, right? Territorial gains are obviously more important than peace.

I figure they'd eject the remaining palestinians if they could look good doing it, not suffer extreme sanctions from the world community.

Israel got what she wanted, just not all of it, so the obfuscational whining will continue until they do.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Israeli dishonesty knows no bounds. It was Israel who set off the whole population migration in 1948 when they refused to allow Palestinians who'd fled the violence to return to their homes, and then more when they pre-emptively attacked in 1967. And they got what they wanted when Jews left other areas in the middle east for Israel- a jewish population to replace the palestinian one they'd effectively evicted. It's how they got their Jewish State.

Israeli policy from that time forward in no way even attempts to address the problem they created- they just push it off on the states who originally took palestinian refugees. They might even be able to make a deal with the Lebanese to take the Pals living there as citizens in return for giving back the Lebanese territory they occupy. Not a chance, right? Territorial gains are obviously more important than peace.

I figure they'd eject the remaining palestinians if they could look good doing it, not suffer extreme sanctions from the world community.

Israel got what she wanted, just not all of it, so the obfuscational whining will continue until they do.

Well while you are completely rewriting history to make it seem like this is ALL ISRAELS FAULT consider this:

Hey, US, Europe has about 30 million people that are there because they fled when you went to war in their nations, do you want them right now or should we wait until Monday?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Israeli dishonesty knows no bounds. It was Israel who set off the whole population migration in 1948 when they refused to allow Palestinians who'd fled the violence to return to their homes,

You conveniently forgot to mention that the war was also fought against these Palestinians, which lost it together with the rest of the Arabs, and that at the end of the war the parties remained at a state of hostility.

and then more when they pre-emptively attacked in 1967.

The fact Israel preemptively started the Six Days war is a tactical, not strategical one. It was obvious a war will be fought, the question was who will fire the first shot. As it was, the accumulation of Egyptian troops near the Suez Canal together with its closure for Israeli shipping were both causes for war.
Does the UN have a special article calling for Israel to be the victim of aggression, without being able to take preemptive steps?

Now, most of the 1967 refugees remain in the West Bank and Gaza, respectively (unless they willingly chose to migrate into Arab countries instead of living under Israeli control). Israel did nothing to push them, it was their choice.

And they got what they wanted when Jews left other areas in the middle east for Israel- a jewish population to replace the palestinian one they'd effectively evicted. It's how they got their Jewish State.

Put in this light, even the holocaust can be a positive event. Hey, without Hitler, there would probably be no Israel, right? Does this make you a nazi, or a supporter of the violence exhibited towards Jews by Arabs?

Israeli policy from that time forward in no way even attempts to address the problem they created- they just push it off on the states who originally took palestinian refugees. They might even be able to make a deal with the Lebanese to take the Pals living there as citizens in return for giving back the Lebanese territory they occupy.

What territory would that be? Can you name any of it?

Not a chance, right? Territorial gains are obviously more important than peace.

Ah, this explains why Israel returned Sinai to the Egyptians (did so twice, in fact). Sinai is about 3 times the size of Israel, for reference.

I figure they'd eject the remaining palestinians if they could look good doing it, not suffer extreme sanctions from the world community.

Israel got what she wanted, just not all of it, so the obfuscational whining will continue until they do.

The Palestinians are looking to hitch a ride on Pan-Arabism and misguided souls in the West supporting their cause in order to create the 23rd Arab state. Egypt and Jordan smartly refused to assume control over Gaza and the West Bank, respectively, thus rolling the problem to Israel's door.

There is a single issue that will prevent peace between Israelis and Palestinians for the forseeable future, and that's the "right of return" - basically turning Israel into a 2nd Palestinian state (after the foundation of their own state, ethnically-cleansed of Jews). No Palestinian leader will ever give up on that, much because of the refugee ethos.

Basically, the Palestinians are professional refugees. Living on the world welfare or the good will of their hosts (and the rich Sheikhs who pour money at them, to express solidarity with their Arabs brethren).

 

[Lemon law]

The point is and remains, when Israel expelled its Palestinians in 1948, some fled to Lebanon, some to the West Bank, and some to Gaza.

So the point is and remains, some 62 years later, its a 100% Israeli RESPONSIBILITY to address the Palestinian Problems.

And a 0% responsibility for Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan to address the problem. Sooner or later Israel must address their RESPONSIBILITY, the only question is when and how much longer Israel can evade their RESPONSIBILITY?

 

[SamurAchzar]

The point is and remains, when Israel expelled its Palestinians in 1948, some fled to Lebanon, some to the West Bank, and some to Gaza.

West Bank and Gaza were both Palestinian territory per the UN Partition plan:

So the point is and remains, some 62 years later, its a 100% Israeli RESPONSIBILITY to address the Palestinian Problems.

It's not Israel's responsibility to compensate the aggressor.

And a 0% responsibility for Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan to address the problem. Sooner or later Israel must address their RESPONSIBILITY, the only question is when and how much longer Israel can evade their RESPONSIBILITY?

By the same token, are the ~800,000 Jews that were driven out of Arab countries, under very similar circumstances, not the responsibility of the respective countries they fled? What is the difference between them and the Palestinians, other than the latter appeal as a pet cause for every delusional liberal hippie in the West?

 

[Freshgeardude]

Dear Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Morocco, and others in the same category.

Compensate the 800,000 refugee jews, and israel will compensate your palestinians.

kthxbye

 

[sandorski]

Palestinians already have Land. Time to stop the Settlements and give it to them.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Palestinians already have Land. Time to stop the Settlements and give it to them.

Why not Jordan? There are 1.9 million Palestinian self-proclaimed "refugees" living there - together with the native Jordanians (which are also "Palestinians") they are a sound majority. They can then overthrow Abdallah and install Hamas or even Taliban as a governing body.

I used believe in the two states solution, not anymore though.

 

[sandorski]

Why not Jordan? There are 1.9 million Palestinian self-proclaimed "refugees" living there - together with the native Jordanians (which are also "Palestinians") they are a sound majority. They can then overthrow Abdallah and install Hamas or even Taliban as a governing body.

I used believe in the two states solution, not anymore though.

Westbank/Gaza Strip. Sorry.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Palestinians already have Land. Time to stop the Settlements and give it to them.

I would think that if the Palestinians would agree to leave Israel in peace, the settlement freeze would be permanent and relocation started on some of the existing settlements generating an independant Paletinian state.

However, with the right of return; Hamas in Gaza and both Palestinian groups refusing to accept Israel as a state, such peace will prove to be difficult to be offered.

 

[Craig234]

How about we relocate Israel to part of Germany?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Why not Jordan? There are 1.9 million Palestinian self-proclaimed "refugees" living there - together with the native Jordanians (which are also "Palestinians") they are a sound majority. They can then overthrow Abdallah and install Hamas or even Taliban as a governing body.

I used believe in the two states solution, not anymore though.

Well they ARE mainly Jordanian, leftovers from the wars so why the fuck not?

It's not a forgotten fact that all "Palestinians" in refugee camps are unwanted citizens of neighbouring nations along with most of the Palestinians in the West Bank.

You have no clue what the Taliban is, Hamas is like a little lamb in comparison.

There is nothing left but a two state solution and believe you me, patience is running out, if you didn't notice it before, you'll notice it if Israel persists.

First up is a cut off of all support, second is sanctions, third is unthinkable.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

How about we relocate Israel to part of Germany?

How about we relocate you to the bottom of the ocean?

Thats where you came from, mud dweller.

 

[Infohawk]

How about we relocate Israel to part of Germany?

How about we have child abuse victims live with their parents? Oh right it makes sense to keep them away from the criminals... Just like it doesn't make sense to have Israelis live with the people that tried to exterminate them.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I would think that if the Palestinians would agree to leave Israel in peace, the settlement freeze would be permanent and relocation started on some of the existing settlements generating an independant Paletinian state.

However, with the right of return; Hamas in Gaza and both Palestinian groups refusing to accept Israel as a state, such peace will prove to be difficult to be offered.

I doubt it, if it would have been that easy, it would have been done in the past under PLO, it wasn't and Hamas was elected.

You see, if you piss off enough people, there will be consequences, it works the same way on an international level as it does in your neighbourhood.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

How about we have child abuse victims live with their parents? Oh right it makes sense to keep them away from the criminals... Just like it doesn't make sense to have Israelis live with the people that tried to exterminate them.

Yeah, because Germany is really horrible to Jews these days since it's still Nazi Germany...

You are such a fucking retard...

The reason was that we (England) gave them the land under UN supervision at one time, at this time it was also established that land cannot be won through warfare.

 

[JEDIYoda]

First up is a cut off of all support, second is sanctions, third is unthinkable.

if you are saying that these are things that will happen to Israel then you are wrong, Totally wrong.

The US will never turn their backs on Israel. There is just way too much at stake.

As far as the Palestinians go, YES the above could happen.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

if you are saying that these are things that will happen to Israel then you are wrong, Totally wrong.

The US will never turn their backs on Israel. There is just way too much at stake.

As far as the Palestinians go, YES the above could happen.

I've heard this before, it takes time but there are already sanctions in place if you have missed it, they are just not official at this point.

I'm fairly certain that the days of unlimited support are over now and it's time for Israel to listen to their greatest benefactor before they make a decision that leaves Israel out in the cold.

 

[woolfe9999]

How about we relocate Israel to part of Germany?

Seriously man, is this sarcasm or what? I'm surprised you didn't pull the full Helen Thomas and say they should all go back to "Germany and Poland."

- wolf

 

[JEDIYoda]

I've heard this before, it takes time but there are already sanctions in place if you have missed it, they are just not official at this point.

I'm fairly certain that the days of unlimited support are over now and it's time for Israel to listen to their greatest benefactor before they make a decision that leaves Israel out in the cold.

I guess we will both have to sit back and see. I for one am of the opinion and have always been that Israel did not ask for our help and that they are prepared to go it alone. But that is just my opinion!

Shalom!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I guess we will both have to sit back and see. I for one am of the opinion and have always been that Israel did not ask for our help and that they are prepared to go it alone. But that is just my opinion!

Shalom!

Israel will do fine all by herself, i'm sure, let's hope it doesn't come to that though.

שָׁלוֹם עֲלֵיכֶם

 

[SamurAchzar]

First up is a cut off of all support, second is sanctions, third is unthinkable.

You seem to overestimate how much the world really cares about the Palestinians, especially in light of Muslim immigration and terrorism. One by one, EU countries are going to the right, and the right wing leaders - like Geert Wilders - understand that Israel is just the front line of the ongoing civilization war.

 

[Lemon law]

Israel was located where it was in 1948, and its useless now to talk about relocating Israel now.

But still, we can ask, was it a giant mistake to put a Jewish homeland where in Israel? Well maybe or maybe not, but after 62 years, there is a lot of sewage and past baggage that has flowed over the dam, so the mid-east of 1948 and the mid-east of 2010 are vastly different places.

But still, the #1 criteria for Israel, and IMHO, a very just one is to guarantee the Israeli right to exist as a State without fear of aggression from its neighbors.

Beyond that, Israel is just like any other nation, if it commits aggression on its neighbors, it will win aggression from its neighbors. So its a two way street, and right now, IMHO, long past the time Israel has secured the military strength to guarantee its existence, it acts like the neighbor from hell, and thus more than earns the hatreds of its neighbors. An absolutely untenable long term strategy for Israel
when Israel is out numbered 5.5 million to some 275 million.

Meanwhile the Palestinian problem is a growing problem. And is a huge source of Israeli hatred that is costing Israel both its international support, and making Israel into international terrorism target #1. The fact is and remains, a just and credible State of Israel cannot rest on Palestinian repression. But a viable Palestinian state would do much to foster Arab acceptance of Israel and start reducing and not increasing mid-east tensions.

At least IMHO, at these peace talks, its time for Israel to step up to the plate, support a Palestinian State, and that can go a long way towards securing a more peaceful mid-east. And Israel is also going to have to tell it bat shit crazy settler parties, the simple word of NO.

Because if Israel does not say yes to a viable Palestinian State, then events will simply escalate. And now the USA, maybe Israeli supporter number one, will either have to tell Israel our support is contingent on a Palestinians State or the rest of the world and our allies will desert the USA.

Well tick tick tick, only two more days for Israel to extend the settlement freeze, failing that, events are likely to spin out of control in the coming months.

 

[Lemon law]

Sammy is somewhat crazy to think, "One by one, EU countries are going to the right, and the right wing leaders - like Geert Wilders - understand that Israel is just the front line of the ongoing civilization war."

When in fact Israel is rapidly becoming retro civilization and the new Sparta. There is nothing new in what Israel is doing, but being Spartans and spending 100% of their time being aholes worried about slaves rebelling is not much of a life. But as a Greek city state, Sparta didn't last all that long, is hardly remembered, and certainly not missed.