Learning more about OSI model and more?

cpals

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2001
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I've forgotten most of the info I learned in a college networking class I took a few years ago and can't seem to grasp the whole OSI model. When I talk to people they refer to this and that being a layer 2 or a layer 3 issue or you can only do that in layer 3, etc. I'm not sure why, but sometimes things in my head don't follow until that initial 'aha' moment where the worlds align and all is well.

I can do alot of everything else required for day-to-day networking stuff (routing, subnetting, vlans, etc), but some reason this never gets in my head. I was planning on taking my CCENT in August (work paying for the week class and test afterwards), but now I'm scared I'm not ready.

I was graduated from desktop tech to network admin fairly quickly due to circumstances and with no real on-the-job experience with networking. I've been in my current position for a little over a year and I'm just trying to gain all the knowledge I can get, but it's a little too overwhelming.

Thanks for any suggestions/help!
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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Honestly? Start looking at packet traces - the layers really show what they do. Look at a simple FTP transfer from start to finish. Look at loading a web page from start to finish. There should be some good stuff on cisco.com. The OSI model really shows itself in the packet traces, that's what will make it "click". Examine each of the layers, the addressing and think about what that layer is really doing.

I'll try to help quickly:
layer1 - signaling, putting the bits on the wire, electrical characteristics. This is you tapping the wire with your finger in a language the other end can understand.
layer2 - this tells anybody on the wire who you're actually talking to. bcats, mcast, unicast live here. Frames live here
layer3 - OK, so you got your frame to the right person (or all people, or a select group of people). Here packets live.
layer4 - so they got the packet, now bind it to an application and operate connection oriented or connectionless
layer7 - application commands - HTTP GET, FTP OPEN, FTP TYPE BINARY, SMTP HELLO, SMTP SENDTO
 

cpals

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2001
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As usual, thanks for the help Spidey... I don't have anyone that I can learn from except you internet folk. :)

Thanks.
 

cpals

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2001
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Ok, so here's an example... I was talking with my Embarq tech and we were discussing something about routing some information between vlans and he said I could only do this with a layer 3 switch. Why is this... only layer 3 switches are capable of routing or something else? How would I know what my switches are... layer 2 or 3? Would pretty much all my switches (Cisco) be layer 3 since they're high end? Would a layer 2 switch just be like a simple home switch?

I can go in more depth about my example if needed, but didn't feel like cluttering.

Thanks.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
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Simply, OSI Layer 2 is your hardware address and OSI Layer 3 is your network address. A layer 2 switch only knows how to process the ethernet frame and look for the destination MAC address (a hub couldn't even do this). The layer 2 switch keeps a table of MAC addresses and which ports they're connected to. Because of this limitation, your layer 2 switch has no knowledge of the IP networks (OSI Layer 3) of the devices connected to the switch.

You can implement VLANs on a layer 2 switch, however in order to route between those VLANs, you will need a trunk to a router (otherwise known as a layer 3 device). To route between VLANs without a router, you can use a layer 3 switch.
 

cpals

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2001
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Slowly getting it... :) JLazzaro, that link helped - anymore like that? I'm more of a visual person and get things if I see and get to 'touch' it.

So if I have a sub-site that has one router (say Cisco 2821) and that site will all be on the same VLAN would there be a reason to purchase a layer 2/3 switch instead of just a layer 2 switch? I'm assuming the layer 2/3 is more expensive.
 

Jamsan

Senior member
Sep 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: cpals
Slowly getting it... :) JLazzaro, that link helped - anymore like that? I'm more of a visual person and get things if I see and get to 'touch' it.

So if I have a sub-site that has one router (say Cisco 2821) and that site will all be on the same VLAN would there be a reason to purchase a layer 2/3 switch instead of just a layer 2 switch? I'm assuming the layer 2/3 is more expensive.
You'd be fine with a layer 2. Even if you wanted to do multiple VLANs, you could use the router to do your inter-vlan routing.
 

cpals

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2001
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So when somebody says that protocol works on the layer 3 (or reverse, whatever) what does that really mean? Why does ICMP or telnet whatever work at layer 2 or is a layer 2 protocol?
 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
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This whole network thing is just a big onion. Layers ... things inside of things.

The core of the onion is the application (stuff like telnet, ftp, IRC, torrents).

As you go further out, you get closer to the physical media and the signaling used to communicate the data from here to there.

Layer 1, the outside layer of the onion, and it's things like copper, fiber, RF, and light (frequently with some secondary protocols involved like a T1/DS1)

Layer 2 (Media Access and Control (MAC) layer) concerns itself with "between the routers" in the broadcast domain. Layer 2 addresses do not pass through routers (except using tricks like a tunnel) Layer 2 addressing is something like an Ethernet MAC address, usually expressed (in the case of Ethernet) as six groups of Hex numbers (like 00:20:5c:01:02:03).

Layer 3 concerns itself with the Network Layer. Network addresses permit data to be sent beyond the broadcast domain and to other networks. IP addresses are split into two halves: Host address and network address - the Host address is where the host lives within teh broadcast domain, the network address describes where the broadcast domain is within the realm of all the broadcast domains visible on the network.

There are other network protocols besides TCP/IP, it just happens to be the one that "won" the popularity contest.

When you create VLANS, you are establishing discreet broadcast domains (layer two logic and addressing). Each VLAN appears and operates independently, even though it may reside in the same physical box (usually a switch) as other VLANs. Since it "looks" like a totally separate switch, the same rules apply; to get traffic from one segment/network (represented by a switch) over to another, you need a router to accept traffic from one network and send it to another network. The router (or layer 3 switch) keeps track of where all the other networks are, or in some cases where to send traffic when it's addressed to a network the router doesn't know about (a "Default Gateway" or "Gateway of Last Resort").

If you look Telent, for example (Telnet is an Application layer thing ... it interacts with a user). The data typed by the user passes down the stack (works its way out from the core to the skin of the onion). After passing some formatting processes, it gets "segmented" at layer 4 to a size of MSS (Max Segment Size) or less (and in this case is labeled for TCP, not UDP, because Telnet requires a session), the segments are/can be chopped up into packets of the MTU (Max Transmission Unit) size or less and assigned a port number of 23 (23=Telnet), and handed to Layer two, which encapsulates it into (in this case) an Ethernet frame which adjusts the amount of data to create a frame of no less than 64 bytes and no more than 1500 bytes. The frame has some attributes set to indicate the the enclosed packet is IP, and t's passed to layer 1, where it's converted into the electrical or optical signaling and put to the wire, fiber, or air (in the case of RF or free-space optical).

SO, at the other side, the pulses (layer 1 info) get converted into a logical frame (Layer 2- Ethernet in this case), which encloses an IP Packet (layer 3 - IP), which is used to re-assemble the data back into a segment (layer4) where each packet has been verified as received, and in the proper order.

The segments are reassembled and formatted as it passes through the Presentation Layer (Layer 6) and then displayed to the user by way of the Application Interface, whatever it might be (Terminal screen , sound, printer, whatever)

Telnet is actually a really sucky example, because Telnet sends one character at a time (one gets sent, one gets received and echoed back to the user in a standard configuration).

Here's a link to Cisco's Online Inter-networking Guide, which is a free version of a very large, very expensive book that does a very good job of explaining the various protocols and layers & such.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/doc.../handbook/ito_doc.html

Standard disclaimer applies: Some of the description above bends, folds, spindles, and mutilates the facts to accommodate a general description that will fit the screen and space provided (and suits my laziness). To get the complete and accurate version, read the friggin' text in the supplied link, or any of the other zillion or so links available in the Internet. "It's technical" and doesn't lend itself to short, simple answers.