Learning curve for mirrorless? Update #3: Hated GF3, bought/loved G5 with 14mm prime

[glenn1]

Update #2Purchased the Panasonic GF3 with 14mm prime on an Amazon lightning deal for $249. Would the 45-200mm f/4.0-5.6 be a good zoom lens to pair with this or should I look elsewhere? Or for that matter, just stick with a P&S ultra-zoom for long zoom shots? And is there really much of a difference in UV filter vs polarizing filter?

 

[fralexandr]

UV filters filter out UV light. Most digital sensor cameras don't absorb significant amounts of UV frequencies. Nowadays UV filters are mostly just to protect the front element from scratches and fingerprints (mostly helpful for resale value, though big enough scratches and fingerprints will show up in some pictures [dependent on aperature]).

Polarizing filters are used to filter out polarized light (light oscillating in a certain direction) They are helpful when taking pictures of reflective surfaces, like water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarized_light

if you pick up a filter, make sure it has the right diameter for the lens you're using. Also, you should look into getting a decent quality one, so as not to significantly effect colors & image quality. Marumi, Hoya, Canon/Nikon/Panasonic/etc, some of the more expensive tiffens, and B+W are good places to start. You might have to get thin/ultrathin filters in order to prevent vignetting on some lenses (typically ultra-wide angles).

The 45-200mm is a pretty good zoom lens which will help when taking pictures of wildlife or other subjects that you can't get close too. Image stabilization is pretty helpful on long lenses, or in low light.

Do you plan on buying a camera bag and bringing more than 1 lens with you at a time? Switching lenses can take a bit of time ~10-30 seconds depending on conditions, and may allow dust onto the sensor and rear element of the lens.
Many photographers prefer to go out with 2 cameras with different focal range lenses. It's more or less a matter of personal taste.

you might want to pick up some cleaning kits to remove dust/etc from the lens/sensor
http://www.amazon.com/Giottos-AA1910...+rocket+blower

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gouSOlgvQg0

 

[ElFenix]

Update #2Purchased the Panasonic GF3 with 14mm prime on an Amazon lightning deal for $249. Would the 45-200mm f/4.0-5.6 be a good zoom lens to pair with this or should I look elsewhere? Or for that matter, just stick with a P&S ultra-zoom for long zoom shots? And is there really much of a difference in UV filter vs polarizing filter?

$249 sounds like a fantastic deal

 

[Gintaras]

It's got a full sized sensor and better image quality.

Please, explain about "full sized sensor"...

Thanks...

 

[AkumaX]

$249 sounds like a fantastic deal

Anyone can go ahead and spec-out pros/cons for each mirrorless camera/system, but you can't complain on a GF3+pancake for $249!

 

[xSauronx]

Anyone can go ahead and spec-out pros/cons for each mirrorless camera/system, but you can't complain on a GF3+pancake for $249!

seriously, i would have been tempted to bite on that if it was on sale when i got my lx7. pretty nice deal there.

 

[TerryMathews]

Please, explain about "full sized sensor"...

Thanks...

Some mirrorless systems use a point n shoot sized sensor instead of a DSLR sized one.

 

[trmiv]

Wow what a smoking deal. Nice find there!

 

[dougp]

Some mirrorless systems use a point n shoot sized sensor instead of a DSLR sized one.

And yet, even with DSLRs, there's two sensor sizes - crop or CMOS and full-frame. Currently no mirrorless systems have a full-frame sensor, which is what most would call full-size.

 

[Gintaras]

Wow what a smoking deal. Nice find there!

maybe a couple months ago, Newegg had PENTAX Q for $180(one lense kit)

 

[Gintaras]

And yet, even with DSLRs, there's two sensor sizes - crop or CMOS and full-frame. Currently no mirrorless systems have a full-frame sensor, which is what most would call full-size.

There are several different sensor sizes and crop factors....

To share photos online, sensor size doesn't really matter that much...it matters a lot, when you want to make a large size quality prints...

 

[Gintaras]

Would the 45-200mm f/4.0-5.6 be a good zoom lens to pair with this or should I look elsewhere?

If you want to use 45-200 at the 200mm and to get sharp photos, you'll need a tripod...It's totally different, when you take photos hand held and looking at the LCD or in the viewfinder...

A more important consideration is the GF3's complete lack of an external hotshoe, which prevents the use of the optical viewfinder accessory. This inability to hold the camera up to your eye makes it very difficult to hand-hold the camera to compose using the LCD screen and still get sharp results using the longer focal lengths. As the ability to use different lenses is one of the main selling points of a system camera, the lack of an eye-level finder is rather limiting.

 

[Throckmorton]

And yet, even with DSLRs, there's two sensor sizes - crop or CMOS and full-frame. Currently no mirrorless systems have a full-frame sensor, which is what most would call full-size.

Sony has a mirrorless full frame

http://www.adorama.com/ISOSLTA99V.ht...FQeoPAod1w0AkA

 

[blastingcap]

Leica has had full-frame mirrorless for a while now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M_(camera)

 

[dougp]

There are several different sensor sizes and crop factors....

To share photos online, sensor size doesn't really matter that much...it matters a lot, when you want to make a large size quality prints...

Eh, I actually meant types of DSLR sensors.

Sony has a mirrorless full frame

http://www.adorama.com/ISOSLTA99V.ht...FQeoPAod1w0AkA

Leica has had full-frame mirrorless for a while now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M_(camera)

Yeah, I thought I had seen releases from them both but oddly enough my Google-fu lacked while I looked. Oh well, I doubt the OP would be shelling out for either of those.

 

[ElFenix]

Sony has a mirrorless full frame

http://www.adorama.com/ISOSLTA99V.ht...FQeoPAod1w0AkA

that has a mirror


i really don't get that camera. you have a mirror that doesn't move so you have light loss. you have EVF only so following moving objects is more difficult. and sure, it may be the lightest weight 35 mm dSLR around, but it's still large and the lenses you'd want to put on it are even larger. what's an ounce in comparison? seriously, the D600 is 1 ounce more.

 

[Throckmorton]

that has a mirror


i really don't get that camera. you have a mirror that doesn't move so you have light loss. you have EVF only so following moving objects is more difficult. and sure, it may be the lightest weight 35 mm dSLR around, but it's still large and the lenses you'd want to put on it are even larger. what's an ounce in comparison? seriously, the D600 is 1 ounce more.

The point is that it can focus while taking pictures rather than just in between pictures (which adds a delay between shots)

 

[blastingcap]

Unless it has an electronic shutter, most mirrorless cameras can't focus in-between shots and in fact are worse than DSLRs at tracking moving objects. Nikon 1 is a rare example of mirrorless with electronic shutter and PDAF that is DSLR-like in its ability to track moving objects with autofocus for more than one shot in a row. And even Nikon 1 has a weakness in that EVFs have lag that OVFs do not, so you can have framing issues because the image isn't updated fast enough for the photographer to get an accurate framing if there is fast movement.

 

[MrSquished]

There are several different sensor sizes and crop factors....

To share photos online, sensor size doesn't really matter that much...it matters a lot, when you want to make a large size quality prints...

and for printing, the vast majority of photographers won't even come close to printing to the size and quality that an FF, let alone APS-C sensor will give them.

how big do you think you can get without any noticeable difference in quality with a 16mp MFT vs a FF Nikon? pretty big.

 

[glenn1]

The 45-200mm is a pretty good zoom lens which will help when taking pictures of wildlife or other subjects that you can't get close too. Image stabilization is pretty helpful on long lenses, or in low light.

Do you plan on buying a camera bag and bringing more than 1 lens with you at a time? Switching lenses can take a bit of time ~10-30 seconds depending on conditions, and may allow dust onto the sensor and rear element of the lens.
Many photographers prefer to go out with 2 cameras with different focal range lenses. It's more or less a matter of personal taste.

If you want to use 45-200 at the 200mm and to get sharp photos, you'll need a tripod...It's totally different, when you take photos hand held and looking at the LCD or in the viewfinder...

Wow, if I'm reading this table correctly, even if I get the 45-200mm lens it's only equivalent to a 5-6x zoom?

Which leads to my next question - I have a trip coming up and want to bring along a camera with decent zoom capability for photographing wildlife and such. I don't mind spending money (but don't want to do so frivolously), but am I better off just buying a separate P&S superzoom camera like the Canon SX500 rather getting a telephoto lens for the GF3 like the 45-150mm and switching between that and the 14mm pancake as needed? There seems to be a hassle factor in either approach, and it seems like the tradeoff otherwise is better zoom in the P&S and longer-term flexibility and better resale value with the additional lens.

And one additional follow-up question - if the advice is to go with a P&S superzoom rather than the Lumix telephoto lens, is there a resource which shows which have the least shutter lag and fastest burst times? The only ones I could find were a couple years old.

 

[MrSquished]

Wow, if I'm reading this table correctly, even if I get the 45-200mm lens it's only equivalent to a 5-6x zoom?

Which leads to my next question - I have a trip coming up to Iceland and want to bring along a camera with decent zoom capability for photographing wildlife and such. Am I better off just buying a separate P&S superzoom camera like the Canon SX500 rather than the GF3 with a telephoto lens like the 45-150mm and switching between that and the 14mm pancake as needed? There seems to be a hassle factor in either approach, and the tradeoff otherwise is better zoom in the P&S and longer-term flexibility and better resale value with the additional lens.

And one additional follow-up question - if the advice is to go with a P&S superzoom rather than the Lumix telephoto lens, is there a resource which shows which have the least shutter lag and fastest burst times? The only ones I could find were a couple years old.

MFT continuous AF is not a strength of the system, although its getting better with later models, and that is what is best for wildlife, well when in fast motion, especially birds. i have seen plenty of great wildlife shots with newer MFT bodies, not like you cant get them, especially of animals just hanging about. high speed wildlife? dslr's with phase detect AF are the best by far.

im not sure how much better continuous af is on superzooms, google some reviews on that superzoom and focus on the continuous AF review part. i wouldnt think it would be any better than an mirrorless body but i dont keep up with superzooms.

you should get a stabilized lens if its in the telephoto range. the statement that you need a tripod to use a 200mm (400mm equiv) lens is hogwash. for a lot of daylight shooting you will get plenty of light to shoot at fast enough shutter speeds to get tack sharp shots, no tripod needed.

because panny bodies arent stabilized in body they tend to put IS in many of their lenses. just get one of those.

the one thing i am not sure of is if having IS on the lens will stabilize the view in live view or in the eVF. that is very helpful because it will help you frame and get the shot. the camera shake that is magnified at telephoto ranges doesnt just affect the picture, it affects what you see. so search for that answer.

when using an optical viewfinder with a stabilized lens, once the in lens IS kicks in, your view is also stabilized. with olympus IBIS on the OM-D the IBIS also stabilizes the EVF view. but panny unsure. a quck search of some mft forums should find that answer quickly.

 

[ElFenix]

Wow, if I'm reading this table correctly, even if I get the 45-200mm lens it's only equivalent to a 5-6x zoom?

"X" in zoom is completely meaningless. it is simply the longest focal length of a lens divided by the shortest. so, for example, a 20-100 lens is a 5x zoom, and a 50-250 lens is a 5x zoom. so's a 100-500. but they are all very different lenses.


when comparing a lens such as the 45-200 to that chart, keep in mind that they are using crop factor so you might as well use it as well. with crop factor, an MFT 45-200 lens has the same angle of view as a 90-400 lens would on the chart.

i'm going to use crop factor equivalents from here out.

the sx 500, on that chart, would be 24-740. 740 is less than 2x the length of the 90-400. given the quality advantage the MFT body and glass has over the superzoom, you could very well get a better image just cropping to the middle half of the MFT camera (which gives the image the same angle of view as an 800 mm lens) than using the full image of the superzoom.

 

[glenn1]

Update #3: Was not happy at all with the GF3 body, so I purchased the G5 kit at Costco. I then used the G5 body and mix-and-matched the lenses from both kits for my Iceland trip. In practice, that meant the 14mm prime was the choice the vast majority of the time, with the 45-150mm telephoto used for a handful of shots. I really liked the results I got with this combination (some of my favorite shots are in the OP). I'm going to try to Craigslist the GF3 body and 14-42 kit lens and try to recoup my $250.

 

[badmatahfingha]

Update #2Purchased the Panasonic GF3 with 14mm prime on an Amazon lightning deal for $249. Would the 45-200mm f/4.0-5.6 be a good zoom lens to pair with this or should I look elsewhere? Or for that matter, just stick with a P&S ultra-zoom for long zoom shots? And is there really much of a difference in UV filter vs polarizing filter?

woah thats one heck of a deal, you pretty much got the body for free and its still a good deal for the lens

if you dont mind manual focus then u can just about adapt any lens to m4/3 thats the best part i like about this format

 

[ElFenix]

The point is that it can focus while taking pictures rather than just in between pictures (which adds a delay between shots)

i hope it is not focusing while taking pictures.