League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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Not one single person on this forum plays at the level though were skill is irrelevant and hero must be compared based on their kit. Skill is everything.

Being able to theory craft has nothing to do with playing the game. I know several people that have never raced an indy car on a track before, but they can most certainly give you all sorts of specification comparisons between cars and drivers. Same as how many gamblers of sports can usually tell who is going to win any given match up if they know enough of the variables and parameters of the matchup proves your argument flawed.

Being skilled at recognizing statistical and qualitative comparisons doesn't need to have actual experience in anything do to with what you are actually doing the comparison upon. That is a logic fallacy and reminds me of the stuff they do in the P&N section.

It does help though when doing a qualitative comparison to actually be apart of the experience of the subject as to gain keener insight. Still that doesn't mean it can't be done correctly without that experience.
 
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crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
What was the first char you tried, and was it your favorite or did you immediately try something else?

First was Kassadin, and I sucked with him. It also didn't help that it was my first time playing a game in this genre. First champ I "mained" I guess would be Eve since I liked the stealth mechanic. But I was still really learning the game at that point. I think the first champ I really started playing well with was Teemo and ranged champs, AP or AD, continue to be my strongest archetype.
 

xSkyDrAx

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
7,706
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Not one single person on this forum plays at the level though were skill is irrelevant and hero must be compared based on their kit. Skill is everything.

Yes this is true but then it also becomes impossible to discuss or compare characters since skill varies greatly between players and the champs they play.

I could be amazing at playing AD vlad but started giving out advice on saying how he's so good and that I can beat normal ad carries with it and everything. You would immediately go wtf that is not viable blah blah troll build as would most of the league of legends player base and with good reasons as well.

When you factor in the skill it there is no way for anyone to prove or disprove your points unless they have played with you extensively and then that judgement will only apply to them.

Ultimately there would be no point in touting whether or not Malz is a good Ap champ but whether or not Malak is good at playing AP Malz. The merit of the character is moot. Tier 4 or God tier it wouldn't matter and as such there are no ways to help new players get a good idea of who's strong and who's not.

I could go on and on about this but I believe you get what I'm trying to say. Yes skill wise no one on this forum and 99% of lol players will never get to a point where they can objectively compare characters but I feel there is a good general agreement on where each character stands among the player base.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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I played DotA back in the day and my main champ was Pug. So basically your bruiser style champ although I played others.

When I tried LoL, I used whatever was free at first. Which happened to be Annie. I did okay with her, but then tried sivir and tristana. Annie I didn't mind and sivr was okay. Didn't like Tristana as much at first. I was playing with a friend and watched him rape some people with Morde. So I thought that might be what I would like to play. So my first character purchase was Morde. I did really well with him, but even I could see he didn't fit into every team comp at the time. This was before his remakes and massive buffs to make him into a god of a champ for a period of time before they nerfed him again.

So while I was playing Morde, my friend recommended I try Xin Zhao out as it might suit my playstyle even better.

So I picked up Xin and well most around here know how well I did with him for a very long time. I ended up buying both the store bundle of heroes and the digital bundle that didn't have much overlap. Between the two bundles I received 40 something champs along with 2700 RPs. I had a coupon and giftcard for the store one so it was less than $10 for that for me even after taxes. Paid $20 for the digital bundle. So $30 for most of the champs at the time and few skins I figured was a decent deal.

I've since played just about every champion out there. I don't own all 90 champs as I need 21 more champs to buy, but I've played them all basically except Viktor at the moment.
 
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CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
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Yup. Of the various game genres, it's got one of the steepest learning curves. Learning 90 champs and their 4 abilities (plus passive abilities) is a slow process. Mastering them is another level. Just read my first post and the tips for new players. Following those will get you started in the right direction.

And ignore the trash talkers. You get a lot of people who think they're the best players and that it's bad teammates that are holding them back.


LOL, that's my son. It's always his teammates faults.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
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Start out by making your own custom games and playing against bots with your kid. It might help. We didn't have that option back in the day :)

In regular games against others, I find it helps if I just auto ignore all (with: /ignore all) right from the beginning. While I don't tend to trash talk, I do get annoyed to the point of bickering back if people start being asses or trolling, which is very distracting. This is VERY helpful if you're the tank, because EVERYTHING that goes wrong is your fault.


This path was my son's suggestion as well. Play the bots to learn the game. The mechanics don't look to difficult, but the strategy does look daunting without playing the game yet.
 

xSkyDrAx

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
7,706
1
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This path was my son's suggestion as well. Play the bots to learn the game. The mechanics don't look to difficult, but the strategy does look daunting without playing the game yet.

There's also a lot of things bot games don't teach you. One of the most daunting things I faced as a newb was trying to figure out WTF was going on during a team fight. When there's 10 characters on the screen and everyone is throwing out their abilities like mad it becomes almost impossible to track your character. It's very easy and frustrating to die in that type of situation.

It took a good chunk of games until I could read what was going on in a team fight accurately and even longer before I could measure how quickly my HP was going down during it and when to bail/continue.

Also another thing that I didn't realize till i watched a friend play was how much clicking was necessary to actually play the game at a normal pace.

I originally started playing and clicked very slowly. Think playing Warcraft 3 single player mode slowly. I would click and just let my character hit the minions. If another champ came up to me and started attacking me i would just cast a spell or two at them and continue to fight them and usually die.

After watching my friend play and the amount clicking he did it made a lot more sense of how much you have to control your character.

But yea that's two kind of obscure things that a lot of people don't realize until they start playing but it's worth it to learn. Very fun game.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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This path was my son's suggestion as well. Play the bots to learn the game. The mechanics don't look to difficult, but the strategy does look daunting without playing the game yet.

Bots help but playing with people over vent who can help coach you can also be of tremendous help as well if you can take feedback well. Many of us game at night and have a vent server we all congregate towards. Wouldn't be hard to start a game with someone from these forums and have us help you gain a little insight.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Bots help but playing with people over vent who can help coach you can also be of tremendous help as well if you can take feedback well. Many of us game at night and have a vent server we all congregate towards. Wouldn't be hard to start a game with someone from these forums and have us help you gain a little insight.

I need to get a headset :(
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,059
558
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When there's 10 characters on the screen and everyone is throwing out their abilities like mad it becomes almost impossible to track your character. It's very easy and frustrating to die in that type of situation.
I can't remember how long it took me to understand wtf was happening either. It happened going from Dota to HoN and again from HoN to LoL. You just see all these graphics flying back and forth, have no idea wtf they are doing and as a result you have no idea wtf to do or react. It took a good chunk of time just getting used to what spells looked like and then what they did.

It is really a daunting task, esp for those new to the genre.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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Ok, I'm now stuck on Dominion play style. It's far superior to the previous DOTA style map and play. I used to play CS at a relatively high level back in the day and I could have played DOTA professionally in Europe back in like 06, used to play with Team Denmark online for a little while. The faster pace along with the requirements for more strategy and team work when capturing or defending towers is going to be great for competitive play.

As far as Hero choice goes, there's always going to be some that are slightly better than others. Most of this is going to come from team synergy though, so it's more important to work within the group in terms of Summoner ability choice, your mastery choice, rune choice and hero choice. It's good to learn 3 - 4 different champions in which you can share most of your rune/mastery decisions(this is mostly for PUG/public players) and you'll have a great time. When I first played LOL back in BETA I played every character once before replaying any character, made a note of which seemed to fit my play style then started replaying them while digging into their abilities and which items bring about the death of the enemies. Right now my goto guys are Teemo, Sion, Blitzcrank and Pantheon. I believe you should mostly experiment with different champions until you find something that suits your play style or teams play style/synergy and you'll do just fine for average competition. Getting to the higher levels just requires more dedication.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
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0
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I can't remember how long it took me to understand wtf was happening either. It happened going from Dota to HoN and again from HoN to LoL. You just see all these graphics flying back and forth, have no idea wtf they are doing and as a result you have no idea wtf to do or react. It took a good chunk of time just getting used to what spells looked like and then what they did.

It is really a daunting task, esp for those new to the genre.

I played Dota for years, when HoN came along I tried it, but the graphics killed it for me. They are real shiny and made it almost impossible to follow animations. Apparently I wasn't the only one who complained about that because Dota 2 has really dull graphics which is perfect for the genre. But I'm stuck on LoL now.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
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I believe Humble is trying to objectively compare the characters.

If given two players of equal skill different champs. Say one is Malz and other is someone like Xerath. Malz will lose. When skill is irrelevant it's the kit that must be judged.

Yes there are good Malz PLAYERS out there but Malz's limit is lower than other AP mages due to his limited kit.

Sure Malak can prob beat most Trynd's due to his mastery over Malz but were he in a situation with equally skilled players then the faults of Malz's kit become more apparent.

BULLSHIT. Saying Malz is limited is straight BULLSHIT. I played mid against a Xerath and WON. I can say that about half the champs. I can tell you which champs are very difficult for Malz, but all the champs you guys keep saying should beat him DON'T. Morde, for instance, wrecks Malz. Morde isn't that great of champ, but his skills counter Malz.

You can't take a look at the skills and think you know anything about a champ. You have to actually play them enough to understand how to use them effectively. It isn't even enough to just play him a few times. I am not going to sit here and declare myself an expert Caitlyn player, but I have played Malz probably more than anyone here. You can't ever say his kit makes him weak, it is straight bullshit.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
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BULLSHIT. Saying Malz is limited is straight BULLSHIT. I played mid against a Xerath and WON. I can say that about half the champs. I can tell you which champs are very difficult for Malz, but all the champs you guys keep saying should beat him DON'T. Morde, for instance, wrecks Malz. Morde isn't that great of champ, but his skills counter Malz.

You can't take a look at the skills and think you know anything about a champ. You have to actually play them enough to understand how to use them effectively. It isn't even enough to just play him a few times. I am not going to sit here and declare myself an expert Caitlyn player, but I have played Malz probably more than anyone here. You can't ever say his kit makes him weak, it is straight bullshit.

It's not just me saying it. It's EVERY HIGH ELO PLAYER IN THE GAME saying it. People that actually play Malz. And have played him more than me or you/

http://www.rog.clgaming.net/tier-lists/45-draft-mode/latest

http://www.rog.clgaming.net/tier-lists/44-solo-queue/latest


Look at how he gets ranked. Low as shit for pre-made team comps and higher in solo games because in many solo games there are noob players that don't know how to deal with his ult. Something I've specifically stated over and over.

Again, no one is stating he's a bad champ. It's that he's out done and out classed by many other champs for the same role. You really are letting your personal preference blind you from being objective here. Look I have little quirks as well. I like some champs over others, despite obvious flaws to those champs, because they are fun for me to play. That is really all that matters in the end. Obviously Malz is fun for you to play. It is possible to win games with any champ which includes even Evelynn. That doesn't mean every champ is the best champ in the game.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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On another note, I ran into a team last night that did something that sparked a temp comp idea. The team I played against didn't fully implement it to the fullest, but I want to try it for the hell of it.

Team Zombie!

Must have Zilean, Yorick, Anivia, and Trynd.
Everyone must get a Guardian Angel.
Everyone must get Revive.

Just when you think you are about to kill someone, they come back. Do you know how utterly annoying that game would be?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Final one should be Karthus or maybe Morde.

Neither of which comes back when you think you've killed them. But at least Karthus stays up for a bit once he's "dead". Morde just dies when he reaches 0 hps. Could go with Kog as he is sort of alive at the end as he follows you around in his death throes.

Personally, I think Kog would be the better pick. Kog + Zil bot lane gives you the support and AD range there. Trynd and Yorick are interchangeable on roles as either jungler or solo top. Anivia mid.

Actually it's not a bad team comp when you look at it that way and not at all that gimmicky. I really want to try it. I'm pretty sure in a close game the other team would be raging hardcore about it :)
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Well Karthus is a zombie (lich) and has his 7 seconds of being alive after death. Morde turns someone else into a ghost, though he'd be better off paired with the Karthus ult to help kill off those that manage to get away with a sliver of life.
 
Oct 25, 2006
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I also think everyone should have an Hourglass. If you're going to make a team that is annoying to fight against, imagine an entire team that hourglasses up in the middle of a fight.

Also, I'm a fan of Karthus because he literally IS a zombie.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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While Karth makes for a better "theme" for the team as a fit, he doesn't make for a decent team comp with what has already been picked. Too much AP over all.

Hourglass can he annoying, but not needed on all the classes. Basically the point, and where this works, is that when you think you have someone down to 0 hitpoints, they aren't quite dead yet. Either from GA, or Zil Ult, or Yorick Ult, or from a passive. Even when you do get one down, a Revive brings them right back to the fight.

Karthus can work but it would be harder to fit him in. I guess Yorick + Zil bot, Karth mid, trynd jungle, and Anivia top?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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As far as everyone on the team having hourglasses... that would be for a different theme group.

Team Untouchables!

Kayle
Fizz
Kennen
Master Yi
Vlad


Actually not a horrible team comp either. Basically everyone has an ability that forces the other team to lose track of their target. Of course going with a Zonya would be better over all. Still this idea would work too. Could also go with stealth champs as well since stealth breaks targeting. So twitch, wukong, eve, and talon would all work.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,059
558
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Team zombie actually looks promising for Dominion. Yorick already stomps bot lane, Trynd is a great AD carry, Zilean for support and Anivia for your AP. Here Karth actually does well as his passive is SUCH a PITA on top of a node.

Must have Zilean, Yorick, Anivia, and Trynd.
Everyone must get a Guardian Angel.
Everyone must get Revive.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
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Yes, team zombie sounds fun if nothing else. That's alot of "health" when you think about it, plus, I've played against all revive teams, and it can be VERY annoying. Add to that GA, plus the overall extra life, it could be potentially be potent.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,157
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what about throwing teleport on team zombie for good measure?

revive then TP back into fight ftw.
 

xSkyDrAx

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
7,706
1
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what about throwing teleport on team zombie for good measure?

revive then TP back into fight ftw.

I was about to say that you need tp for that team as well. Just have someone toss down a ward before a team fight and you'll basically have a team that is super annoying to fight. It would work out pretty well unless the other team is far stronger than you are. That would end up to be massive feeding for them but as long as the teams play pretty evenly. TP & Revive on a team that refuses to die will always win the team fights basically.