League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
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I'm rather confused by your tier list zebano.

Is your Solo Tier List for when you solo queue? I see a lot of your Tier 1 picks only being powerful when you can rely on your team (which most people can't in solo) while some of your Tier 3 and 4 picks are amazingly powerful in uncoordinated situations or just extremely strong solo playstyle champs.

And I wouldn't say Ahri is a new FOTM, she just recently came out so a lot of people just want to try her out for a few days before putting her on the shelf or using her. Personally I enjoy her play-style so I'll probably pick her up.


yes the solo list is my opinions for solo queue.
Which ones? do you disagree with

Tier 1: Kassadin - sucks until level 6 when he can beat just about anyone
Yorick - wins 95% of toplane matchups.
Maokai - superfast jungle with strong ganks and tanky
Skarner - superfast jungle with strong ganks and tanky
Lee Sin - superfast jungle with strong ganks and tanky
Riven - superfast jungle with strong ganks and tanky also a strong top in many matchups
Morgana - Free farm and an amazing ult.
Graves - Stongest AD from start to extremely late game when vayne is better.
Sona - support theoretically requires team, but one of the strongest pokes early game and an AOE stun.
Sion - ROFLSTOMP - blow up wave, proceed to another lane to gank, back to your lane to farm the creeps. Boots of mobility are a must
Janna - support
Vayne - best late game and decent early game.
Tryndamere - extremely strong top with an ult that often lets him get 2-3 kills
Shaco - Uber strong level 2/3 ganks while lane is level 1.
Akali - still snowballs hard.
Rammus - Even an idiot can get the killl when rammus PBs in and taunts.
Xerath - massive range means that your teammates can be idiots and you can snipe in safety.


I guess you could argue that Rammus/Skarner/Maokai require semi-competent lanes for your ganks to work but if your teammates are that bad, you weren't going to win anyway (or you're engaging when you shouldn't).


Which tier 3/4 champs do you think are too low?
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
FYI, I just had my dodge runes refunded.

edit: Says they should be completed by the 25th for everyone.

Also, I just went 16/3/15 as Graves in a ranked game with AT3C (we won) and our terrible Wukong was going to report me for being bad or something. Went on about having to get Stark's because I had no lifesteal, even though I had my two DBlades and AT3C supporting me with Alistar. Some people... :rolleyes:
 
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krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
2,873
0
0
I was thinking the supports, they are very good but the best support in the world can't do anything when your carry is still an idiot o_O

As for T3/4's that don't deserve their place, I for one think Malzahar shouldn't be anywhere except Tier 1 or maybe 2 depending on your experiences with him. As well as Olaf, Singed, Cho'Gath, Blitz, and Annie. The latter 3 I consider to all be Tier 1 picks as they are extremely powerful for team fights and laning phase, and Cho and Blitz are extremely versatile. There are some other picks I don't agree with but I picked out the main ones.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Had a satisfying solo ranked queue experience.

We were facing a complete AOE lockdown team comp of Amumu, Nunu, Sona, Brand, and Graves. I said from the start, we are not winning this game if we try to fight them head on once we get to the team fight phase. Gave up an early kill to Sona+Graves (after which, she arrogantly says "gg?" in all chat) but then Shaco gave us some excellent gank kills. Rumble owned Amumu top. Akali eventually overpowered Brand mid. Once they started traveling as a pack, we kept mostly split up and moving from lane to lane to keep minion pressure. Good warding and Shaco boxes let us know where they were. Our Ashe got to carry status and I used Taric's ult so that me and whoever I was with could knock down a tower fast then retreat while Ashe pushed the opposite lane. They eventually surrendered.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
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I was thinking the supports, they are very good but the best support in the world can't do anything when your carry is still an idiot o_O

As for T3/4's that don't deserve their place, I for one think Malzahar shouldn't be anywhere except Tier 1 or maybe 2 depending on your experiences with him. As well as Olaf, Singed, Cho'Gath, Blitz, and Annie. The latter 3 I consider to all be Tier 1 picks as they are extremely powerful for team fights and laning phase, and Cho and Blitz are extremely versatile. There are some other picks I don't agree with but I picked out the main ones.



Malzahar and Annie suffer from there being much better AP mids. Malzahar in particular tends to do very little in team fights and his ult often gets interrupted. Annie is much better but suffers from a difficult laning phase due to short range and typically cannot harass with q much due to mana costs. Annie is dead useful in a teamfight but you can get AOE stuns from a few other places too but in solo queue you typically want someone who wins early and can run off and gank/take tower and snowball.

Olaf is a very good solo top right now but he's not uncounterable. I fear a Tryndamere or GP top much much more than an Olaf which honestly may be lack of good Olafs.

Cho and Blitz are versatile but hardly game winning must take characters. Cho is basically an unkillable tank that you send top but unless you land rupture you've taken away half his utility. Blitz is useful if you can reliably land grab but when people ward well and kite it just doesn't happen enough (unless you're doublelift).

Singed is an interesting case in that once he get's going he's extremely strong. That said until he gets his catalyst he is essentially one of the weakest top lanes available. Teemo shuts him down super hard as do GP and a few others.


Regarding the supports, Sona is so incredibly strong while still offering heals that any halfway decent AD is going to do fine and latter on offers an AOE stun. Janna is a bit harder in that you must be able to land your shield in between seeing an enemy attack and it landing. She is bar-none the most useful support in teamfights though using her ult well takes skill. I've been sitting at 1500 Elo for a number of games now and finished S1 at 1410 so you can adjust your support expectations for different Elos. With both Janna and Sona I've taken cs when my AD spends too much time harassing and become a major force in the game, I cannot do the same with a Taric or Alistar whose effectiveness doesn't change a ton based on farm.
 

krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
2,873
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Had a satisfying solo ranked queue experience.

We were facing a complete AOE lockdown team comp of Amumu, Nunu, Sona, Brand, and Graves. I said from the start, we are not winning this game if we try to fight them head on once we get to the team fight phase. Gave up an early kill to Sona+Graves (after which, she arrogantly says "gg?" in all chat) but then Shaco gave us some excellent gank kills. Rumble owned Amumu top. Akali eventually overpowered Brand mid. Once they started traveling as a pack, we kept mostly split up and moving from lane to lane to keep minion pressure. Good warding and Shaco boxes let us know where they were. Our Ashe got to carry status and I used Taric's ult so that me and whoever I was with could knock down a tower fast then retreat while Ashe pushed the opposite lane. They eventually surrendered.

Indeed the problem with a pure teamfight team, can't stop split pushing.

That and their comp required Amumu solo top lol.


Malzahar and Annie suffer from there being much better AP mids. Malzahar in particular tends to do very little in team fights and his ult often gets interrupted. Annie is much better but suffers from a difficult laning phase due to short range and typically cannot harass with q much due to mana costs. Annie is dead useful in a teamfight but you can get AOE stuns from a few other places too but in solo queue you typically want someone who wins early and can run off and gank/take tower and snowball.

Olaf is a very good solo top right now but he's not uncounterable. I fear a Tryndamere or GP top much much more than an Olaf which honestly may be lack of good Olafs.

Cho and Blitz are versatile but hardly game winning must take characters. Cho is basically an unkillable tank that you send top but unless you land rupture you've taken away half his utility. Blitz is useful if you can reliably land grab but when people ward well and kite it just doesn't happen enough (unless you're doublelift).

Singed is an interesting case in that once he get's going he's extremely strong. That said until he gets his catalyst he is essentially one of the weakest top lanes available. Teemo shuts him down super hard as do GP and a few others.


Regarding the supports, Sona is so incredibly strong while still offering heals that any halfway decent AD is going to do fine and latter on offers an AOE stun. Janna is a bit harder in that you must be able to land your shield in between seeing an enemy attack and it landing. She is bar-none the most useful support in teamfights though using her ult well takes skill. I've been sitting at 1500 Elo for a number of games now and finished S1 at 1410 so you can adjust your support expectations for different Elos. With both Janna and Sona I've taken cs when my AD spends too much time harassing and become a major force in the game, I cannot do the same with a Taric or Alistar whose effectiveness doesn't change a ton based on farm.

Are you kidding me? Malzahar is extremely powerful in mid, and his Q and W are excellent team fight spells, dishing out huge amounts of damage once you have a Deathcap. The best thing about Malz is that almost any other mid solo is basically going to die the moment he hits 6 and gets anywhere near them as Ignite + E + R deals an almost lethal combo, unless they itemize to counter that beforehand. He has excellent long range farming as well in case he's being pressured back.

Annie does suffer from not having as much range as some other mid casters but she still has very high and reliable damage output. She's not seeing as much use competitively because they primarily favor very tanky or sustained mids (like Ryze or Morgana) but she is still very powerful.

As for Cho, he almost is game breakingly good as he can jungle extremely quickly or basically force back everyone that typically solos top once he has a few levels. He doesn't need to rely on Rupture as much lategame with the popular build on him where Rupture basically is just a free, no-risk initiation but if he doesn't land it he's still a force to be reckoned with due to his insanely high base damage (Wit's End + Vorpal). If you're thinking of straight tank Cho, then yes he's useless but if you're building straight tank Cho you're doing it wrong already lol. As for Blitz, he's not an amazing champ fair enough, and as you say he relies on being able to grab people. But if he can land even a few important grabs that's enough to make him worth it, not to mention how much of a disruptor he can be.

The reason I say Olaf is Tier 1 is he can pretty easily beat both Tryn and GP and just about every other common top solo. He has great early game power due to Reckless Swings and lategame he's a force to be reckoned with due to his ult preventing any CC from working on him. If nothing else he forces you to always be defensive as if you get aggressive and lack the nukes/damage output to kill him he'll make you sorely regret it.

And I stand by almost all supports being lackluster without a reliable carry, Janna and Sona might be able to get a bit more done with some AP or something but they're still not going to change how your game plays unless the enemy's carry is also an idiot.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
Indeed the problem with a pure teamfight team, can't stop split pushing.

That and their comp required Amumu solo top lol.




Are you kidding me? Malzahar is extremely powerful in mid, and his Q and W are excellent team fight spells, dishing out huge amounts of damage once you have a Deathcap. The best thing about Malz is that almost any other mid solo is basically going to die the moment he hits 6 and gets anywhere near them as Ignite + E + R deals an almost lethal combo, unless they itemize to counter that beforehand. He has excellent long range farming as well in case he's being pressured back.

Yes but you cannot do anything to Xerath (range too great), Morgana (unless you bait the shield first), most Sions will survive due to his shield and then free farm and roam after that while your ult is down (Malz can push hard enough that this isn't a great strat for Sion but without the ult threat if you miss silence you will eat a stun + shield and that hurts).

I still maintain that against decent teams most Malzahars do little in teamfights unless he's paired with an Amumu / Galio or someone to lock down the enemy which is not something you want to count on in solo queue. I mainly play 2 roles mid and support and itemizing against a champ with a sure level 6 kill is just common sense. Last time I ran Karthus against LB for instance I used a rune page with flat MR blues and started NMM + 2 pots, she didn't kill me until a little group skirmish at level 9. I was much more useful and farmed than she was late game.



Annie does suffer from not having as much range as some other mid casters but she still has very high and reliable damage output. She's not seeing as much use competitively because they primarily favor very tanky or sustained mids (like Ryze or Morgana) but she is still very powerful.

Annie's other major problem is that she cannot clear a wave quickly. If you're up against Sion with 2x D Ring and boots of mobility, he will activate his shield, blow the entire wave and waltz off to gank another lane while you're stuck farming at tower. He'll be back without missing more than 1-2 CS. Morgana can do similar things and can shield the stun. Even with a catalyst or RoA Annie goes out of mana fast if she uses W too often.

As for Cho, he almost is game breakingly good as he can jungle extremely quickly or basically force back everyone that typically solos top once he has a few levels. He doesn't need to rely on Rupture as much lategame with the popular build on him where Rupture basically is just a free, no-risk initiation but if he doesn't land it he's still a force to be reckoned with due to his insanely high base damage (Wit's End + Vorpal). If you're thinking of straight tank Cho, then yes he's useless but if you're building straight tank Cho you're doing it wrong already lol. As for Blitz, he's not an amazing champ fair enough, and as you say he relies on being able to grab people. But if he can land even a few important grabs that's enough to make him worth it, not to mention how much of a disruptor he can be.

Cho is a severely underrated Jungler but missing rupture typically doesn't leave him with enough damage/time to secure a kill.

The reason I say Olaf is Tier 1 is he can pretty easily beat both Tryn and GP and just about every other common top solo. He has great early game power due to Reckless Swings and lategame he's a force to be reckoned with due to his ult preventing any CC from working on him. If nothing else he forces you to always be defensive as if you get aggressive and lack the nukes/damage output to kill him he'll make you sorely regret it.

Fair enough, he's extremely strong but I actually think GP is one of the better choices against him since he can sit back and Q farm if he has to. Realistically you want to send Ryze or Swain to kill a (pre6) Olaf. If they do a good job early he can't kill them latter with his ult.

And I stand by almost all supports being lackluster without a reliable carry, Janna and Sona might be able to get a bit more done with some AP or something but they're still not going to change how your game plays unless the enemy's carry is also an idiot.

I'm curious what Elo you play at because having a better support is often the difference in who wins bottom lane and latter teamfights. I simply don't run into those herpderp I'm totally useless AD carries any more and my first 10 games were 7 supports and 3 mids (yielding me a placement Elo of 14xx) so I'm going to have to disagree. I won in S1 as a jungler/support and I've won in S2 as a Mid/Support main.
 

Stumben2

Member
Jan 13, 2006
76
0
0
Can you guys give me some advice on how to play Fizz? I just bought him for a hard earned 6300 IP and I Suuuuuuck with him.

I do have trouble with the AP combo assasin types. Like I tried Veigar and Kassadin and it was a disaster.

Maybe it is because of the nerf bat he just got but ugh...finding Fizz underwhelming.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Fizz is a pretty high skill champ. You have to be able to anticipate and/or react quickly enough to dodge stuff with your pogo stick move. It's like Vlad's pool, except it has a lot more offensive utility and doesn't have to be saved as a get away. During laning, you're harass is charging W, Qing into them, and then pogo jumping away if necessary. After that, it's about knowing when to engage - usually after team fights have started so you don't have to try and avoid everything and your W will be causing more damage. Tossing your fish out when all the ults are going off usually causes it to get lost in the commotion as well.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
BTW, in case you guys hadn't known, in the last patch Riot already deployed the code for the next champion and of course intrepid LOL players tore it out to reveal.

Viktor, The Machine Herald

Evolving Technology (Passive) - Viktor starts with a Hex Core that provides him with stats and can be upgraded in the store to augment one of his abilities and improve its stats. The Hex Core can only be upgraded once, and cannot be sold back to the store. The Hex Core takes up one of Viktor's item slots.

Power Transfer - (Active) Viktor blasts an enemy unit for 80/125/170/215/260 (+0.65 per ability power) magic damage, returning 40% of the damage dealt as a shield.
Augment: Power - (Passive) +3 ability power per level, +220 health and +6 health regen per 5 seconds. Power Transfer increases Viktor's movement speed by 30% for 3 seconds.

Cost: 45/50/55/60/65 Mana
Cooldown: 9/8/7/6/5 seconds
Range: 600

Gravity Field - (Active) Viktor conjures a gravitational imprisonment device, slowing all enemies and stacks every 0.5 seconds. At 3 stacks, the target will be stunned for 1.5 seconds.
Augment: Gravity - (Passive) +3 ability power per level, +200 mana, +10% cooldown reduction, +5 mana regen per 5 seconds. Gravity Field has an additional 30% cast range.

Cost: 65 mana
Cooldown: 17/16/15/14/13 seconds
Slow: 28/32/36/40/44 %
Range: 626

Death Ray - (Active) Viktor uses his robotic arm to fire a chaos beam that sweeps across the field in a cone, dealing 70/115/160/205/250 (+0.7 per ability power) magic damage to every enemy in its path
Augment: Death - (Passive) +3 ability power per level, +45 ability power. Death Ray sets fire to enemies, dealing 30% additional magic damage over 4 seconds

Cost: 70/80/90/100/110 Mana
Cooldown: 13/12/11/10/9 seconds
Range: 700

Chaos Storm - Viktor conjures a singularity at the target location, dealing 150/250/350 (+0.55 per ability power) magic damage and silencing enemies in the area for 0.5 seconds. As it churns, it deals 40/60/80 (+0.2 per ability power) magic damage every second to nearby enemies for 7 seconds. The storm moves faster the closer it is to Viktor.

Activating this ability again while the singularity is active will redirect it.

Cost: 125/175/225 Mana
Cooldown: 120 seconds
Range: 700
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
As zebano says, Malz isn't that great.

He's a GREAT pub stomper, no doubt about that. But against skilled opponents he's not all that. Also level 6 doesn't give him an auto kill either in mid. You need to have malefic visions, puddle, ignite AND ult going to finish someone. That and you have to have the person dumb enough to stick around for that and NOT be a instant killer first either. For example, if I'm playing Warwick mid, you are dead as a Malz. You have ZERO chance of reaching level 6 before a Warwick. You can't push Warwick out of lane early and he can sit there and Q you over and over forcing any malz to go back to base to heal or die early. Same thing with an Akali. Kassidin can also own Malz. Sion too. Sion Pops shield, rushing in to stun, and backs out over and over. Constant harassment that Malz can't deal with. Why? Malz has ZERO sustainability. Right now the AP mids that have escapes or massive sustainability are the ones you want solo lane. They are the dominate ones. the other champs are going to suffer pre-level 6 in 1v1 match ups.

Here's what people don't understand, for 1v1 solo lanes you want champs with these characteristics.

1) Sustain. As a solo champ no one is coming to help. If a champ can't recover health and/or mana on their own they are screwed if the other person can out harass them. You want to be able to stay in lane as long as possible. The longer you stay in lane the faster you level up.

2) Survivability/Escape mechanisms. Not only does a solo lane have to contend with their enemy counterpart, they also have to be ready to deal with potential ganks against them. A good solo lane character has some way to deal with ganks and enemy harassment.

3) Ability to harass. Without having the ability to harass the enemy counterpart in lane, then you are just letting them free farm and harass you back. You aren't giving the other player any reason to leave lane to heal so you can get up in life. Nor are you allowing an opportunity to allow your jungle to come over for an easier potential gank that will result in a kill on the other enemy champ

4) Reliable CC for when your ganker comes over you can make sure you guys get the kill.

5) Last but not least Farming ability. You want a champ that can farm and push a wave if needed. Then roam around to help other lanes make kills. However, the other 4 characteristics are much more important first, but this is still is not to be ignored.


That is just for LANING phase. The list above has NOTHING to do with team fights in mid to late game.

So let us see how well Malz matches up to that list? Does Malz have sustain? Nope. Does he have surviability or escape abilities? Nope. Does he have the ability to harass? Yes. Does he have reliable CC? Not until level 6. Can he push a wave fast? Yes and no due to the random nature of malefic visions. So he has 2 out of 5 but only the least 2 of the 5.


Now here is my list of solo lane champs that are better picks based on early laning phase. These are in no particular order.

1) Tryndamere. Massive sustain. Escape with spin. Ability to harass with impunity due to sustain and spin. Fairly reliable CC with mocking shout. Can mow through waves with high crits.

2) Gangplank. Massive sustain. Escape with Fruit. Ability to harass with parley. Reliable CC with his passive and again later with ult. Can clear a wave with ult, but really needs madreds to eat through waves or high crit items so early game wave clearing isn't great but it gets much better.

3) Xerath. Not much sustain with health, but he's a special case that doesn't need it really. Why? Well... He has escape with stuns and toggle on/off foci for speed. Has a reliable CC. Has survivability with MASSIVE range. Has massive harass potential from massive range and stuns. Can clear waves easily. His range gives him the survivability he needs to stay away from potential ganks, poke his enemy counterpart, and free farm. While he lacks sustain he doesn't need it if played smart.

4) Morgana. Great sustain due to passive. Reliable CC with dark binding. Survivability with Shield. Can clear waves with soil easy.

5) Sion. No real sustain until level 6 with ult, but can be made up for with initial items easy. Very reliable CC. Great survivability with shield. Great harass combo with ranged targeted stun + shield. Can blow up minions waves like they are nothing.

6) Wukong. No real sustain without an item. Reliable CC after level 6. Great survivability with decoy. Massive harass (almost the best in the game) with nimbus strike + crushing blow + decoy combo. Can clear minions waves with nimbus pretty decently.

7) Warwick. SUPER Massive Sustain. Escape with speed if someone nearby is less than half health (which is fairly easy to do if you've been harassing with Q in lane. Ability to harass with impunity with Q. Reliable CC after level 6 though. Like GP though needs madreds to clear waves though.

8) Xin Zhao. Great sustain. Okay escape with charge if minion is there to charge back towards. Can harass with charge and knockup easy. Massive early game damage with three talon strike. Fairly reliable CC with a slow from charge and knock up from 3 talon strike.

9) Renekton. Great sustain. Reliable CC. Harassment and escape. This guy is a great solo laner. He is just lacking a good ult for team fights. For a melee AD his damage is a bit on the low side as well, but nothing that can't be fixed with items.

10) Alistar. Sustain with self heals. Harass with headbutt. Can clear waves with passive and pulverize. Reliable CC. Great survivability especially with his ult.

11) Brand. No real sustain without items but like Xerath makes up for that with great range. He has a large range with both pillar and conflag. Especially as a comb. Can clear waves easily. Has reliable CC with his Q if the player can land skill shots.

12) Anivia. No sustain, but with egg has great survivability. Built in slows in attack allow her to kite. Wall also gives her a great way to survive ganks. Massive early game damage. Reliable stun if the player can land skill shots. Can clear minions waves past level 6 like crazy.

13) Veigar. No sustain but has good survivability with stun ring. Which the stun ring gives him reliable CC. Can clear waves with ease. Can harass with stun ring and dropping his bomb easy enough.

14) Leblanc. Massive harass with dash + range + dash back. Reliable CC if one can land skill shots. Great escape with dash, chained slow, and passive. No sustain though. Can clear waves easily.

15) Caitlyn. Massive range harass. No sustain without items. Great escape/survivability with net drop and traps. Great early game damage if timing headshots early. Can clear waves with piltsover.

16) Miss Fortune. Massive range with double up. Awesome harass with double up. No sustain without items. Reliable slow CC with make it rain. Great escape/survivability with make it rain and passive speed boost. Can stop the sustain of enemy champs

17) Garen. Massive sustain with passive. Massive harass with speed + shield. Massive early damage. Can clear waves. Can escape with speed + spin to remove slows and being pretty tanky early on with courage. Will make an easy kill at level 6 if anyone is nearby with less than half health.


Now the guys listed above are great per level 6 and even better once they hit level 6. They are hard to push out of lanes for a varity of reasons, most of which I listed or are self evident, and can force their counter parts out of the lane.

However, not all on that list above are great for ever team comp. Some fall off in potential as the game goes longer. Some have lousy mid games with awesome late games. Some have the reverse. However, ALL of them have good early games in a solo lane and will flat out DOMINATE champs like Malz pre-level 6 in lane. I'd take any of those 16 champs I posted above against ANY Malzahar player no matter how good that player is and beat them to a pulp pre-level 6. Same with an Annie.

Now when it comes to mid/late game and team comps, some of the champs I listed above are flat out better than Malz there as well. Malz is a gimmicky one trick pony that makes for a great pub stomper. There is no doubting that. Like teemo. But no serious player is going to pick the champ in high elo to win games with the champ. He's is easily countered and dominated early game. His mid game can be great if he can get a bunch of solo kills with his ult. But his late game can fall off to shit. His ult is easily countered late game and has low range which puts malz into danger. Not to mention his ult is easily telegraphed. His Malefic Visions damage and passive pet damage is just to random to be reliable. His silence is easily dodged. And his puddle can be avoided unless used in conjuction with a hard CC.

Basically to reiterate, Malz isn't that good really. I've seen him do well, but there are other champs that can do what he can and do it better.
 
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crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
I'm liking Malphite in the jungle a lot. He has to have blue buff because of his mana problems, and he's a bit on the slow side, but he's a great addition to any team. His ganks with Q+red buff are strong (since he doesn't just slow but steals the MVSP for himself) and once he gets his ult there should be no escaping him. I think it's one of the best initiation moves in the game. It doesn't require you burning Flash first, like Amumu, Galio, or Annie. Plus his E debuff + Frozen Heart's passive is great for helping to neutralize any AD carry.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I jungled Rammus with my caster set up by mistake and WOW. It's much better at everything than trying to set him up with pen/armor and defense/util masteries. So I ran with it in 3 more games and pretty much owned them.

Kills faster, still crazy tanky, jungles really fast.

Also, I really like Ahri, she's basically Anvia with a taunt instead of stun, but her ult gives her alot of escape. I have a feeling they'll nerf her ult soon though.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Rammus has really good AP ratios on Powerball and Tremors. I'm actually tempted to try a build with Zhonya's, Abyssal, Deathcap and use it to backdoor towers. It's kind of funny to think of Rammus Powerballing into a tower and it going down in one duration of Tremors.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Rammus has really good AP ratios on Powerball and Tremors. I'm actually tempted to try a build with Zhonya's, Abyssal, Deathcap and use it to backdoor towers. It's kind of funny to think of Rammus Powerballing into a tower and it going down in one duration of Tremors.

Prior to the mastery changes I had seen a few people try to do this but with the normal def runes/masteries. The inherent problem with this build on him is since he's technically a "tank" getting that kind of build on him will take forever unless you are a) getting kills and b) getting the kills. What seemed to work best is start normal tank build as needed, then grab ROA and maybe a Rylas if you have the gold.

For what I was doing, I went 21/0/9(APside), with AP/MPen runes, then all tank/health. I was taking down towers with tremors fairly quickly.

The downside to this build is you are pretty squishy until 6, so you have to choose your ganks much more carefully. Going against a team that is has more AD than AP helps as well.

One thing I've never understood is how his armor reduction (to the enemy) works. Does it only work if you are actively attacking someone? Or does it work on whos attacking you? I ask this because of how it seems to work against towers. (You can see you do more damage with it on) I've never really compared the damage output when being hit by a tower vs. when the tower is attacking a minion.
 
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crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
His taunt reduces his target's armor for the duration. His passive also converts 25% of his armor into AD, so when you have DBC active you're getting an extra 37.5 AD (at max rank). That's the only reason you'd see increased damage on towers since you can't taunt them. Don't know if DBC's damage reflect applies to towers too.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
His taunt reduces his target's armor for the duration. His passive also converts 25% of his armor into AD, so when you have DBC active you're getting an extra 37.5 AD (at max rank). That's the only reason you'd see increased damage on towers since you can't taunt them.

Ahh you're right. I got them confused.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,059
558
126
Damn, loving Kass in dom. Not sure why I never played him much before, but he's so versatile in build and play style.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
Yeah pirate for now. I'm a brutal trynd. I would probably use parts of it on him though. He doesn't need the whole thing. The yellows and blues are mostly worthless, an extra 6% crit is meh. On pirate though endless crits are too troll to not be fun.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Yeah pirate for now. I'm a brutal trynd. I would probably use parts of it on him though. He doesn't need the whole thing. The yellows and blues are mostly worthless, an extra 6% crit is meh. On pirate though endless crits are too troll to not be fun.

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