League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
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Started off well, and now getting lower and lower and lower. About to go below 1100. So sad.

I can't wait till finals are over and I can participate in 5 man ranked.

Issue is, I'm not the type of guy who can carry teams hard consistantly. I play too passively, and if enemy makes a mistake I capitalize on it. I almost always have positive KD ratio but rarely do I snowball because I'm not the type of player who plays agressively enough to get kills all the time.

5-man is all about team coordination. Your play style is just fine and in fact a full team playing like that can often gain a significant advantage by catching the enemy out of position. That said, that's mostly for laning phase, the larger the difference in feed between your team and the enemies the more aggressive you should be.

To clarify:
If you're significantly up: group up (assuming team comp doesn't demand split push) and take objectives, especially inhibitors, baron, dragon, enemy red/blue and towers in that order... anything that gives your team global gold is OP. If someone tries to 1v1 you and they're down levels / gold / matchup is good go for it. If the enemy tries to initiate, fight (assuming the numbers are good).


If you're down I personally think turtling is the wrong strat (unless you're waiting out a baron). You must ward, ward, ward and gank the enemies that go out solo while avoiding full team fights. Turtling just cedes the objectives except tower/inhibitors to the opponents increasing their lead. If no one else on your team will try anything you might as well force the action unless you have a late game supercarry that you're just waiting on farm for (Trynd, Jax, Irelia, Vayne, maybe Yi) in which case delaying tactics are the best.


Edit:
Solo queue you cannot count on your teammates so being more aggressive to feed yourself is often times a better choice. Especially if a lane starts 0/2 and won't lane swap, it's time to gamble. This is why duo queue is soo good, you get a small amount of that larger team coordination.
 
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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
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If anyone wants to have a little fun lets compare tier lists

http://www.loltierlist.com/Solo/?id=zebano.

This is specifically geared toward solo queue (ranked). I consider tier 1 to be bans & picks that will be strong and almost un-counterable.

Tier 2 are strong picks, welcome on any team.

Tier 3 I consider champs you usually don't want unless they counter an enemy champ or you're particularly skilled with that champ.

Tier 4 - Their jobs can be done better by someone else but they're not totally hopeless.

Tier 5 - garbage, for trolling only or you expect the enemy team to feed you (i.e. Poppy is a great champ with minimal farm, but getting even that much is a very difficult experience).



Jungling (didn't order tier 5)
http://www.loltierlist.com/Jungle/?id=zebano

Team
http://www.loltierlist.com/Team/?id=zebano
 
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xSkyDrAx

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
7,706
1
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If anyone wants to have a little fun lets compare tier lists

http://www.loltierlist.com/Solo/?id=zebano.

This is specifically geared toward solo queue (ranked). I consider tier 1 to be bans & picks that will be strong and almost un-counterable.

Tier 2 are strong picks, welcome on any team.

Tier 3 I consider champs you usually don't want unless they counter an enemy champ or you're particularly skilled with that champ.

Tier 4 - Their jobs can be done better by someone else but they're not totally hopeless.

Tier 5 - garbage, for trolling only or you expect the enemy team to feed you (i.e. Poppy is a great champ with minimal farm, but getting even that much is a very difficult experience).



Jungling (didn't order tier 5)
http://www.loltierlist.com/Jungle/?id=zebano

Team
http://www.loltierlist.com/Team/?id=zebano


Why do you put Zilean as tier 1 for team tier list?
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
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Why do you put Zilean as tier 1 for team tier list?

Because he's an amazing mid, especially with an early blue. It's neigh impossible to harass him or deny him farm, he does great damage and late game he still does good damage but also provides a great slow/speed up and his ultimate which is simply game changing (maybe not as good as Yoricks). He's still a common ban in tournaments even though he has insane mana costs. Just his q>w>q combo at level 9 (max q) costs like 310 mana, at level 2 it's 190 mana... His only weakness right now might be AP Sion. This is of course subjective but I see him kick ass at every Elo and he has a great mix of both AoE damage and utility.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Because he's an amazing mid, especially with an early blue. It's neigh impossible to harass him or deny him farm, he does great damage and late game he still does good damage but also provides a great slow/speed up and his ultimate which is simply game changing (maybe not as good as Yoricks). He's still a common ban in tournaments even though he has insane mana costs. Just his q>w>q combo at level 9 (max q) costs like 310 mana, at level 2 it's 190 mana... His only weakness right now might be AP Sion. This is of course subjective but I see him kick ass at every Elo and he has a great mix of both AoE damage and utility.

His Ult is worthless against people paying attention. If his target is not killed, the ult might as well me useless. Why? If you ult someone, that person is near death in the first place. That means they are most likely already fleeing. Late game, it can be real hard to place his ult on someone getting burst down fast enough. His ult can be used to great effect, especially against a team that is stupid enough to kill the person he ults and if the person he ults is paying attention enough to know that they've been ulted by Zil so they should stop fleeing and try to die. Still it is lackluster overall for the flaws I've already pointed out.

Don't get me wrong, his Q and E are phenomenal abilities. As well as his W to a certain extent. He dishes out major damage early on. The problem is he trails off faster than any other AP caster. He is this weird hybrid between AP carry and Support without being the best at either role. Not that he's weak. No, I've played him well and seen him played well. I just think his ult is massively lackluster. Now if his ult was like Yoricks, that would be a different story.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
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His Ult is worthless against people paying attention. If his target is not killed, the ult might as well me useless. Why? If you ult someone, that person is near death in the first place. That means they are most likely already fleeing. Late game, it can be real hard to place his ult on someone getting burst down fast enough. His ult can be used to great effect, especially against a team that is stupid enough to kill the person he ults and if the person he ults is paying attention enough to know that they've been ulted by Zil so they should stop fleeing and try to die. Still it is lackluster overall for the flaws I've already pointed out.

Don't get me wrong, his Q and E are phenomenal abilities. As well as his W to a certain extent. He dishes out major damage early on. The problem is he trails off faster than any other AP caster. He is this weird hybrid between AP carry and Support without being the best at either role. Not that he's weak. No, I've played him well and seen him played well. I just think his ult is massively lackluster. Now if his ult was like Yoricks, that would be a different story.



His ult is what? You're on crack man. Just imagine that someone follows your advice and stops attacking the person who is ulted. They now have up to 7 seconds to sit there and deal damage to whomever they want. That is an eternity in a teamfight. Now if the summoner wastes that and just runs well, you should note that that list was specific to 5x5 teams, not solo queue so I'm assuming a certain level of coordination here.

Appeal to authority:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/n8ffg/im_sydtko_or_tom_and_ama/c372jvl
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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His ult is what? You're on crack man. Just imagine that someone follows your advice and stops attacking the person who is ulted. They now have up to 7 seconds to sit there and deal damage to whomever they want. That is an eternity in a teamfight. Now if the summoner wastes that and just runs well, you should note that that list was specific to 5x5 teams, not solo queue so I'm assuming a certain level of coordination here.

Appeal to authority:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/n8ffg/im_sydtko_or_tom_and_ama/c372jvl

Naw, just stun the ulted person and waited it out. Really that's what people typically do. Usually the person with the ult is too emboldened and rushes in out of range of his team to support since they try to focus on one person who runs, or they get stunned and waited out from all the high elo games I watch. It also makes Zilean a high priority target in team fights. So what happens is teams either focus him down fast with CC and high damage so he can't ult, or if they can't reach him they save their CC for the ulted target so the ult is wasted.

Again it is too easy to counter his ult and render it damn near useless by smart playing.
 

blamb425

Senior member
Mar 30, 2007
545
1
0
I fell from 1440 to 1280 duo queuing with a friend...then I won about 20 straight games solo and am now sitting at 1531. Feels good.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
Zil's ult is amazing. Against smart people it's actually several seconds of free damage since a lot of people will stop focusing whoever is ult'd. His speed/slow buff is amazing as well. Allows him to roam, especially once he has blue and can double bomb wave clear. He considered the most OP hero in team play by ALOT of 2k+ players. Soloq not as much. But in organized team 5's. Very very very strong. You still have to comp around him, but it isn't hard to do. And if you put him on a team with a Yorick top your AD carry just never dies.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
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I fell from 1440 to 1280 duo queuing with a friend...then I won about 20 straight games solo and am now sitting at 1531. Feels good.

I've been having similar problems where I can't win duo queue but I can solo, it makes me wonder if they tweaked the Elo change due to duo queueing. I've actually been winning most when I play support or AP mid with any other role being a loss (I need to work on my jungling). I had a hilarious game last night as Janna where I got yelled at for protecting the Ashe from Gangplank instead of trying to help Maokai and Udyr go 2v4 against everyone else....
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Zil's ult is amazing. Against smart people it's actually several seconds of free damage since a lot of people will stop focusing whoever is ult'd. His speed/slow buff is amazing as well. Allows him to roam, especially once he has blue and can double bomb wave clear. He considered the most OP hero in team play by ALOT of 2k+ players. Soloq not as much. But in organized team 5's. Very very very strong. You still have to comp around him, but it isn't hard to do. And if you put him on a team with a Yorick top your AD carry just never dies.

Again his ult requires several things to make maximum effect.

1) That someone is going down, but not so fast that he can apply his ult. Someone getting insta pop by the other team isn't going to allow him to place his ult in time.

2) You really need to save the FIRST person. Saving the second person, or hell anyone else later, isn't going to be nearly as beneficial to your team. The later Zil waits to use his ult in a team fight, the less beneficial it becomes to winning that team fight.

3) The target of the ult has to see it and not start running. The instinct of most people that see their health bar dropping and getting low is to start running. They may not notice Zil pop his ult on them. If Zil pops his ult on someone that person needs to immediately turn around and start re-fighting in a team fight. Otherwise they are wasting the potential of his ult.

4) Even if the person above DOES turn around and start to immediately re join a team fight, that doesn't mean someone on the other team isn't playing it smart and is waiting exactly for that. The proper CC at that moment, so long as no one else on the enemy team tries to kill the person with Zil's ult on, will render Zil's ult useless.

Like GA, Zil's ult has a 3 second re-animation time from the moment the person drops dead to them getting back up. Time during which the person isn't doing anything to help their team.


I'm not saying Zil's ult isn't good. It is and is very effective against teams that don't have players smart enough to counter it. But the fact that ANY team comp can easily counter it in a 5v5 team fight means the usefulness of the ult drops in relation to ults from other champs. In smaller 3v3 skirmishes his ult is a massive changer. It is also great to save someone getting ganked if Zil can make it to the person in time. Someone not dying on your team means no bonus exps and gold for the other team. That can mean a whole lot in the long run.

But to maximize the full potential of Zil's ult in a 5v5 team fight can be difficult. It requires too many factors to maximize as I've listed them above. It can also be easily nullified if the person Zil ults doesn't notice at first, starts to run, realizes before the buff wears off that it was cast, and then turns around to fight just as the buff from his ult wears off. I've seen THAT scenario happen way too often. In which case the person Zil ult'd still dies and never contributed anything extra to the team fight. Which makes his ult a complete waste. The results of his ult are too variable based. Yes with the right set of variables it can be game changing. It can win games if used correctly at the right moment and not countered by the other team. It's potential for game changing is massive. But as I said, there is too many uncontrollable variables for it and many times the ult will not be effective at all.
 
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Oct 25, 2006
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Man, last night had a ridiculous game. We were winning pretty hard pushing their mid lane hard to go for their inhib then suddenly, FOUR MAN TELEPORT TO OUR BASE. TAKE OUT 2 TOWERS, INHIBITOR, AND BOTH NEXUS TURRETS BEFORE WE CAN RESPOND.

Of course that just mean we had to turtle for about 20 minutes until they just bumrushed our Nexus and killed it.

I was carrying retardedly hard too, went like 17/6 with Noct.

I hate this game sometimes.
 
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crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
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I played Malphite for the first time in awhile last night. Went solo top. Since I knew I would be vs. Wukong and we had a Leona for the tanky intiation role, I took armor + pots and went for Wriggle's. Wukong had a really tough time harassing me so long as I had mana. The problem is that Malphite still suffers from the old champion design philosophy and his abilities cost too much mana. Q 70, W 50, E 50 and all scale. Compare that to some of the other AD solo champs -

Riven - lol
Wukong - Q 40 (flat), W 60, E 65
Irelia - Q 65 (refunds 35 if it gets a kill), W 40 (flat), E 65
Jax - Q 65, W 20, E 60 (all flat)
Olaf - Q 55, W 40, E 40
Renek - no mana pool, just CD restrained
Panth - Q 45 (flat), W 55 (flat), E 45

Of all these, Olaf is the only one without any flat mana cost ability but has very low mana costs. And they all get similar sized mana pools. So Riot, if you're paying attention here (hah) either cut down Malphite's ability costs or at least give him one that stays flat. I'd say give his W (cleave passive + AD/AR boost active) the flat cost.
 
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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
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First off let me quote myself (was also noted by firsttime and xSkyDrAx).


you should note that that list was specific to 5x5 teams, not solo queue so I'm assuming a certain level of coordination here.




Again his ult requires several things to make maximum effect.

1) That someone is going down, but not so fast that he can apply his ult. Someone getting insta pop by the other team isn't going to allow him to place his ult in time.

I can cast Janna's shield in the time between an enemy autoattack/spell cast animation and the time it impacts my carry, Zilean's ultimate is similar. That said use of the ult is still subjective.


2) You really need to save the FIRST person. Saving the second person, or hell anyone else later, isn't going to be nearly as beneficial to your team. The later Zil waits to use his ult in a team fight, the less beneficial it becomes to winning that team fight.

Not really true. If Alistar initiates via Flash + Pulverize and they choose to burn him down I won't save him. It makes no sense to. The ult is mainly for an AD carry, an Assassin or in some instances a fed Bruiser (i.e. Nasus with good Q Farm).



3) The target of the ult has to see it and not start running. The instinct of most people that see their health bar dropping and getting low is to start running. They may not notice Zil pop his ult on them. If Zil pops his ult on someone that person needs to immediately turn around and start re-fighting in a team fight. Otherwise they are wasting the potential of his ult.

This is a team tier list, not solo queue but even at 1500 elo people tend to (not always) see the ult and react accordingly.

4) Even if the person above DOES turn around and start to immediately re join a team fight, that doesn't mean someone on the other team isn't playing it smart and is waiting exactly for that. The proper CC at that moment, so long as no one else on the enemy team tries to kill the person with Zil's ult on, will render Zil's ult useless.

Like GA, Zil's ult has a 3 second re-animation time from the moment the person drops dead to them getting back up. Time during which the person isn't doing anything to help their team.

True, but it has a 2.0 AP scaling so they're going to come back with significantly more HP than a GA gives.

I'm not saying Zil's ult isn't good. It is and is very effective against teams that don't have players smart enough to counter it. But the fact that ANY team comp can easily counter it in a 5v5 team fight means the usefulness of the ult drops in relation to ults from other champs. In smaller 3v3 skirmishes his ult is a massive changer. It is also great to save someone getting ganked if Zil can make it to the person in time. Someone not dying on your team means no bonus exps and gold for the other team. That can mean a whole lot in the long run.

But to maximize the full potential of Zil's ult in a 5v5 team fight can be difficult. It requires too many factors to maximize as I've listed them above. It can also be easily nullified if the person Zil ults doesn't notice at first, starts to run, realizes before the buff wears off that it was cast, and then turns around to fight just as the buff from his ult wears off. I've seen THAT scenario happen way too often. In which case the person Zil ult'd still dies and never contributed anything extra to the team fight. Which makes his ult a complete waste. The results of his ult are too variable based. Yes with the right set of variables it can be game changing. It can win games if used correctly at the right moment and not countered by the other team. It's potential for game changing is massive. But as I said, there is too many uncontrollable variables for it and many times the ult will not be effective at all.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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Even with a premade team and coordination, there is still some level of discontinuity that exists. Even with a VOIP software like vent, expectations and actions get lost. How many times have I said I was about to initiate at a spot, ping, give a countdown timer, and then at the last moment someone decides to wander off and say I went to fast for the to react when they had more than ample time to be where they were needed? I've seen it happen as well with the "pros" too. Someone gets something they want to do in their head right then and there and go do it instead of listening to the call the team is making.

Yes, Zil's ult has a better chance in a coordinated team to be used for a bigger impact. But still, if you are going with a coordinated team to a game, the other team is going to be a pre-made as well. Assuming they are retards, which does happen, they should have the coordination as well to easily counter Zilean's Ult during team fights or at least lessen the impact it can have.

Again, Zilean's ult relies on too many uncontrollable variables to be 100% maximized. It's not something as easy as anyone else who has lesser variables needed to maximize the effect. Actually most ults just require the enemies to be standing too close together to maximize. Again something easily countered, but even if not every enemy is hit by the ult it still has maximum effect to the enemies the ult does land upon.

I'm not saying Zilean's ult can't be game changing if used right and to maximum effect. Oh it most certainly can be. It is just not easy to maximize that effect compared to the ults of other champs.
 
Oct 25, 2006
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As it turns out, in Duo Queue, playing Sona and a carry wins games. I as nocturne and friend as sona. Been going 4:1 KD ratio. However, without Sona, things deterioate. I've gone so many games with that 4:1 KD but can't carry the entire damn team because its one fed guy against 3 other fed guys
 

blamb425

Senior member
Mar 30, 2007
545
1
0
Sona's skillset inherently makes her the best support for Solo Queue. In a game with people you've never played with before, being able to constantly pump heals and provide extra offensive power combined with her ult is just too useful to pass up.

Also, Akali's Silverfang skin has to be the best-looking ingame skin. Definitely happy with my purchase.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Taric is almost identical to Sona in that regard and, I think, a little bit better. A targeted heal, a persistant armor buff, a single target stun on not too long of a CD, and an ult that boosts everyone's offensive power that's up every ~60 seconds or less. I bought his Bloodstone skin since it was on sale and it makes him look badass. Sona might heal someone you didn't really want to (a retreating tank who's soaked damage while your AD carry is pressing forward to get the last kill).
 
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Abel007

Platinum Member
Jun 12, 2001
2,169
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Got SWTOR to play now thankfully, because the LoL fools are getting on my nerves. Jungle Malphite. My teammates immediately goto their lanes, no jungle protection at all, so I start at wolves then run into blue bush..BOOM dead AND they steal my blue buff. Team is yelling "WTF NOOB MALPH" etc. Now I am well behind in the jungle but decide to proceed with it as top could potentially carry our team (gangplank) Back to wolves, as a level 1, then wraiths then golems and then at red, its Fiddlesticks stealing my red. He is 2 levels above me so not much I can do, I ping for help but of course nobody comes. I try to fight him for as long as I can then have to run off. Better to give up the red than to give up the red AND die. At this point, jungle is totally F'd. Now my team starts calling for ganks. I've managed a half assed clear and don't even have boots much less the blue/red buffs. After 6, I picked up my ult and immediately so a potential kill so I hit the ult and BOOM! All air. Just missed them. Oh well, no problem. It was over a treeline and I had no LOS on the target. "OMG WTF NOOB MALPH MISSED HIS ULT, report this noob Malph!" It went on like this for about 25 minutes til we finally voted to surrender. I ended the game with 0/3/5 or something and the rest of the team barely did any better but it was ALL my fault if you listened to them. I am pretty sure they all reported me for being a bad malph but I was handcuffed. This reaction seems to be the norm nowadays. If I solo top Teemo, "F'n noob Teemo better carry our team" or if I support Taric "F'n noob Taric better be a good support" or "Fail Taric" for not saving me from a 1v3 across the map!"

I realize this is all just childs play but it really has started irritating the hell out of me and I don't know why. Typically I can do /ignore all and go on about my business. The only problem with /ignore all is that the chat is the only way to communicate. So I either leave communication channels open and listen to the BS or SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING. like Madagascar.

I think a LoL break is in order. Maybe when the kids go back to school and have a bedtime I can rejoin the ranks of LoL players, but right now I can't handle it. I use LoL as an outlet, but the players lately have poured water over it and flipped the switch.
 
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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
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Taric is almost identical to Sona in that regard and, I think, a little bit better. A targeted heal, a persistant armor buff, a single target stun on not too long of a CD, and an ult that boosts everyone's offensive power that's up every ~60 seconds or less. I bought his Bloodstone skin since it was on sale and it makes him look badass. Sona might heal someone you didn't really want to (a retreating tank who's soaked damage while your AD carry is pressing forward to get the last kill).

I still like Janna the best though for certain matchups I'll play Sona or Alistar. If I have an early pick and I'm not going mid, I'll take Sona because she is so versatile, but Janna has so much utility that if you survive the sustain at the beginning of the game she really shines. That said, Sona's ult is extremely nice too. I just don't like Taric much because his damage feels quite negligible unless I give up some of my avarice runes or my greed mastery, ranged stun + a heal is a nice kit but I feel like it's too dangerous to get into melee range and use shatter since he has minimal survivability lategame unlike an Alistar who can Ult.
 

Onita

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,158
0
71
I just recently started playing after being out for a few months. Is Ahri the new FoTM?
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
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I just recently started playing after being out for a few months. Is Ahri the new FoTM?

yes. Good burst, plays similar to a LB but with skillshots and a triple-dash for a high skillcap. Very squishy however if you can stun her she usually dies.
 

Onita

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,158
0
71
yes. Good burst, plays similar to a LB but with skillshots and a triple-dash for a high skillcap. Very squishy however if you can stun her she usually dies.

Gotcha, trying to get back into it all, but its difficult with 5-10 new champs that I don't know wtf they do lol. I've been playing Wukong quite a bit and doing well.
 

krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
2,873
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I'm rather confused by your tier list zebano.

Is your Solo Tier List for when you solo queue? I see a lot of your Tier 1 picks only being powerful when you can rely on your team (which most people can't in solo) while some of your Tier 3 and 4 picks are amazingly powerful in uncoordinated situations or just extremely strong solo playstyle champs.

And I wouldn't say Ahri is a new FOTM, she just recently came out so a lot of people just want to try her out for a few days before putting her on the shelf or using her. Personally I enjoy her play-style so I'll probably pick her up.