League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

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Snock514

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2009
1,071
2
81
I am really disappointed in Volibear. (S)he's the most boring champion to play in the game. I regret spending RP towards it.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
Bear is troll. I like him a bit. We played a game earlier, he does a lot of damage. Mostly from his ulti'd autos. Pretty funny when people fight you and your passive triggers. Although ignite hard counters him.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
The bear is annoyingly fast. Of course this was exacerbated by the fact that I was playing Heimerdinger, a rather shitty champ in his own right. Actually laning with Heimer is pretty easy but surviving ganks once everyone hits level 6 seems nearly impossible.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
If I can get 5 together tonight I really want to try out a new lane setup (similar to what someone suggested here a couple of pages back).


Blue-Side Lane solo: Sustain champ that can farm all day, similar to how top is now. IF you have the opportunity (say pushed to tower and enemy back) walk up and snag the enemies jungle camp nearby, but no unusual duties required.

Primary Mid - Similar to current AP mid, should farm lane and level while getting kills and controlling dragon as permitted. If possible should spam spells over wall to steal enemy big wraith - every time they spawn they're worth more gold and with a short respawn timer we don't want to kill all of them.

Jungle Mid - Should run smite. Responsible for taking blue or giving to other mid as approprite, clearing wolves + own wraiths, controlling dragon and harassing mid when other duties not available. Secondary duties are to roam to gank/steal Blue side solo or enemy red buff if desired, tertiary duty is to gank/steal enemy blue (should coordinate with other jungler).

Red Side Primary - Farm + level in lane, help take initial red and/or dual golems before lane is active.

Red Side Jungler - Primary duties are clearing dual golems + red, and helping control red side lane. If mid jungler isn't getting it he may take wraiths. Secondary duties are controlling dragon (if blue team) and enemy blue.


Thoughts on this:

1. requires a team, probably on vent, especially for jungle invasions.
2. Purple team is at a big disadvantage because their second dual lane (red side) will be top, far from dragon. If ran as standard 1-2-2 setup bottom - mid jungler would be responsible for red side and bottom for blue side (from purple's perspective), this gets you much further from your lane making roaming more important and your laners need to be more capable solo.
3. 2 mid could take an early tower which is huge as far as map control is concerned.
4. 2 mid some of the time means your mid won't have as large of a level advantage. Being able to solo top with an AP becomes more attractive but harder to take advantage of since you cannot roam to gank as easily.
5. Red side jungler almost must be a no-mana champ since they will not have blue ... unless stolen from enemy. This means Lee Sin, Shyvana, Tryndamere are in very high demand.
6. Single target junglers are much slower than AoE farmers like Phoenix Udyr, Shyvana, Lee Sin (to an extent) and are mostly obsolete unless they have tons of utility.
7. Move speed on junglers is very important.
8. No dedicated support to buy early wards.
9. 2 junglers will be splitting already reduced funds so must either counterjungle well, or win lanes. This means that if you could figure out how to jungle Taric/Janna/Alistar/Blitz etc you would have a nice advantage
10. 2 smites means you should be going for a very very early dragon!


A suggested setup without regard to bans:

(blue team)
Top / solo - Any standard top - Pirate / teemo / Nasus / Renek / Lee Sin / Trynd

Mid - Zilean! followed by the standard AoE mages - Morgana, Brand, Xerath, Cassiopia. All can push and harrass very well as well as being able to steal enemy wraiths.

Mid Jungle - Alistar w/ boots - can start with blue and roams quite well while his passive allows him to farm camps. Once again manaless junglers should be considered since zilean or other AoE mage with Blue buff are very nasty for the first 5 minutes.

Bottom Lane - Corki or Caitly - Good skills to farm 1v2 and an escape. Should consider cloth armor + ward + pots start

Bottom Jungle - Lee Sin / Tryndamere / Taric (feed buff to the AD, farm with shatter)
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
If you're going to throw someone bot in a 1v2 potentially they need to have good wave clearing. Or they are just going to be pushed into tower all day. Graves would be ideal. Also you would forgo a CV which leaves your jungle very open to ganks. So you would want junglers who could 1v1 at early levels. Nunu, Riven, Lee Sin and Rammus would probably be the best, also new Volibear would be good.

Take your low mana junglers. Send a normal AP mid and then a strong hero would have to 1v2 bot. If you could get Graves in there it would be nice, probably not smart though. In the end you would probably have to send Galio/Cho/Yorick bot against a more traditional comp. Top should always be a counter lane in a real game.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
If you're going to throw someone bot in a 1v2 potentially they need to have good wave clearing. Or they are just going to be pushed into tower all day. Graves would be ideal. Also you would forgo a CV which leaves your jungle very open to ganks. So you would want junglers who could 1v1 at early levels. Nunu, Riven, Lee Sin and Rammus would probably be the best, also new Volibear would be good.

Take your low mana junglers. Send a normal AP mid and then a strong hero would have to 1v2 bot. If you could get Graves in there it would be nice, probably not smart though. In the end you would probably have to send Galio/Cho/Yorick bot against a more traditional comp. Top should always be a counter lane in a real game.

Yeah that is my main concern, and why I think this probably won't work for purple team. That said Cho and Morgana are particularly easy champs to 1v2 with though I don't like graves in that scenario due to his super short range. You could conceivably have one of the laners take CV, though I would hesitate to leave someone taking smite + CV.

Edit: Being pushed up near your tower is actually a good thing when 1v2 though if you can control it enough to keep it just outside the tower range it's perfect.
 
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Snock514

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2009
1,071
2
81
For those who don't believe in ELO hell,
welcometoranked-1.jpg
 
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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
zebano are we playing right now?

The enemy captain has refrained from contacting me despite me PMing them and trying to friend them in game. =( I'm going to Minneapolis this weekend and I'll be back late Monday so I could probably borrow Zirze's computer to play Saturday if needed but I'll try to schedule for Tue/Wed of next week.


Edit: Fun games last night everyone. I'll upload the replays latter.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Games last night were fun.

I know you guys were laughing at my CS score at the beginning, but it came back, it ALWAYS does. That's how Irelia works.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Yep fun games. The 4v4 we had at the end was a bit different as well once Nik and his roomie took off. But you guys can all ignore me in games cause I'm Terrible and the lowest elo player there :)
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
Having no bans that first game really sucked. I out CS'd Przmms Graves all game but could never engage due to his burst + power cord. Throw a Morgana onto that team and we should have just resigned and started a new game immediately.

The second game was quite fun and competitive until that dragon fight went wrong.

The 4v4 game was a lesson in how to split push =) There was simply no reason to ever group up in a lane since 2 people could easily slow the enemy team down enough that we could take towers and objectives at will.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Having no bans that first game really sucked. I out CS'd Przmms Graves all game but could never engage due to his burst + power cord. Throw a Morgana onto that team and we should have just resigned and started a new game immediately.

The second game was quite fun and competitive until that dragon fight went wrong.

The 4v4 game was a lesson in how to split push =) There was simply no reason to ever group up in a lane since 2 people could easily slow the enemy team down enough that we could take towers and objectives at will.

You posted a link before to that guys data statics and his analysis of the data. Basically he stated that CS isn't as important to winning as many people think. First Blood = 400g. with minion equal to 15-30 gold (30 for cannon) that makes that first kill equal to 20-27 minion kills. It makes the assist equal to 10-16 minion kills. Earning more CS than your lane opponent is great if neither team is dying. This was something I was trying to tell zDelusion last night.

He asked me early on, who's going to win top between his Renek and my Warwick. Early on it was fairly evenly matched. I had a tiny bit more CS and harass going than he did, but nothing major. That all changed once I hit level 6 and Nocturne came from the jungle to help on killing him. I got that kill off on him and managed to take tower. After which I started roaming for ganks. I ended up 5/0/6 for that game but only had 96 CS. His Renekton had 162 CS but had almost 3K less gold than I did by the end.

Also, while Nocturne came for the gank up top, Renekton had his jungler come several times before and after level 6 to try and gank me top. Each one failed though as I was ready for them.

Sure he out farmed me by the end because as Warwick I don't have any AoE minion wave clearing attacks. But Warwick is not meant to be a pusher, he's a ganker by design. Warwicks gold after level 6 needs to come mostly from kills/assists which is what I do with him. Sure he can still farm and do so safely, but you are doing a disservice to your team by not making full use of his ultimate early on.

So while zDelusion had only 2 deaths and much more CS, I won that top lane over all by getting the kill on him and pushing down his tower first. The CS he gained in the end didn't matter and wasn't enough to overcome the gold advantage I got and kept gaining through kills.


So Zebano, as I was trying to infer by that bit of anecdotal evidence from the second game is that out farming is not an indicator of success or winning in this game by a long stretch.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
You posted a link before to that guys data statics and his analysis of the data. Basically he stated that CS isn't as important to winning as many people think. First Blood = 400g. with minion equal to 15-30 gold (30 for cannon) that makes that first kill equal to 20-27 minion kills. It makes the assist equal to 10-16 minion kills.

Also, you kill a guy he has to wait to res and then walk back, losing more CS and losing XP on top of that.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
I believe the stats were team based, not per individual. The team with the higher CS is likely to win > 90% of games according to those stats Zeb posted.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
Having no bans that first game really sucked. I out CS'd Przmms Graves all game but could never engage due to his burst + power cord. Throw a Morgana onto that team and we should have just resigned and started a new game immediately.

The second game was quite fun and competitive until that dragon fight went wrong.

The 4v4 game was a lesson in how to split push =) There was simply no reason to ever group up in a lane since 2 people could easily slow the enemy team down enough that we could take towers and objectives at will.

Man, during the dragon fight, I went FUUUCCCKK when I saw Renek had engaged. We were spread out while the other team was nice and concentrated.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I believe the stats were team based, not per individual. The team with the higher CS is likely to win > 90% of games according to those stats Zeb posted.

Actually no. The team with the higher CS did was not likely to win. The team with the most GOLD total was likely to win 90% of the time. Also the team with the most gold typically had the most kills and assists, not the most CS. CS is important, especially early on, but it is no substitute for proper teamwork that earns kills and takes down objectives like towers, dragon, and baron. At the end of of most match the team that wins typically has LESS CS than the other team. The reason being is that the winning team has at some point switched their focus from CS to killing and objectives. The losing team can only focus on not dying and trying to keep up levels and exps with CS.

If the losing team can't keep up and capitalize upon some mistake the winning team may make they are going to lose the vast majority of the time. So the stats show that CS for a match at the end doesn't mean much. More often than not the losing team has much more CS, but way less gold.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Man, during the dragon fight, I went FUUUCCCKK when I saw Renek had engaged. We were spread out while the other team was nice and concentrated.

LOL, we were spread as well, but I targeted Cass with my ult and ignite in the middle of 3 of you guys. What was funny was I also killed her, but with help from your team. I got slowed while Cass flashed away. I was like "SHIT!" as I thought she was going to make it away when she was almost dead after my ult and ignite combo. At which point Zebano does his Janna ult and I happened to be behind him. So his ult pushes me right next to Cass. Allowed me to Q her to kill her. Then I was able to run back down and killed Zebano :) My team killed someone else that was running away in river, which was you I think Nik although I can't remember who you were playing. So that left zDelusion playing as Renek and Smash playing as MF as the only survivors at this point. They flashed and took off, but we managed to catch up. I finished off Renek at the tower, but MF got away. After we took the tower, and then took dragon. It was all down hill from there for your team.

For reference, Renekton didn't initiate that. I did as Warwick. My team was a bit behind me, but I jumped from the bushes with my ult and you guys didn't have time to see or react to that before my team caught up.
 
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zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
Throwing you toward him sucked. Their were 3 people near me and I was trying to get to Cass to use my heal. The ult unfortunately didn't help. I like heal + CV but not having flash in team fights for proper positioning really really sucks.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
So Zeb me and Prizmm did the double jungle thing today. I was Riven and took bot jungle, we had an Amumu take top jungle. LB, Ali, Fizz solos. It fucking raped. I never really got around to doing anything other then Red, Golems and ganks. Amumu took the rest of the jungle. Didn't hurt that our LB was some guy called The DesertEagle who went 8-0 with LB ganking Prizmm's bot lane. We checked him later he's like #28 on SQ ladder. Made us lol.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
So Zeb me and Prizmm did the double jungle thing today. I was Riven and took bot jungle, we had an Amumu take top jungle. LB, Ali, Fizz solos. It fucking raped. I never really got around to doing anything other then Red, Golems and ganks. Amumu took the rest of the jungle. Didn't hurt that our LB was some guy called The DesertEagle who went 8-0 with LB ganking Prizmm's bot lane. We checked him later he's like #28 on SQ ladder. Made us lol.

Nice! I've seen DesertEagle on some of the streams. Some games he really rapes. He usually does pretty good, which is why he is a higher elo player, but I feel he got carried a bit higher than he should be. I've seen him do some DUMB things in games.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Is it just me or are there a bunch of bugs with this latest patch? I've seen double kills off one character, I've seen people not taking damage from AOE's, there were some others that other teammates were talking about too.

FWIW, I actually like the bear. I find him to be a great distraction except I hate laning with him. I accidentally tried Yi last night..that was a mistake..worst game ever I suppose it didn't help I had the wrong runes and masteries.