League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

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xSkyDrAx

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
7,706
1
0
Ugh, went on a 10 game losing streak this weekend. Went from +40 to +30 and it seemed no matter who I played the randoms on my team were herpaderp like no other. I attribute part of it being the holiday weekend but who knows. Hoping this week will do better.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
Ugh, went on a 10 game losing streak this weekend. Went from +40 to +30 and it seemed no matter who I played the randoms on my team were herpaderp like no other. I attribute part of it being the holiday weekend but who knows. Hoping this week will do better.

Holiday may be bad but if you're considering +x games that means normals, and normals .... well they're not a tryhard game for most people since ranked started. Normal draft is slightly different but I pretty much play normals to

a. play with people from ATPCG
b. learn new champs
c. try stupid non-meta comps
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
I'm laning with a Jax top (no jungle, normal game) as Cait vs. a Shen with Regrowth Pendant and who gets Chainmail as soon as he has the gold. Basically makes harassing him an effort in futility.

Jax: Cait sucks, all she does is last hit!

:rolleyes:
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I'm laning with a Jax top (no jungle, normal game) as Cait vs. a Shen with Regrowth Pendant and who gets Chainmail as soon as he has the gold. Basically makes harassing him an effort in futility.

Jax: Cait sucks, all she does is last hit!

:rolleyes:

LOL, and that is the mindset I find most players have. They want kills and they want them NOW!
 

xSkyDrAx

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
7,706
1
0
Holiday may be bad but if you're considering +x games that means normals, and normals .... well they're not a tryhard game for most people since ranked started. Normal draft is slightly different but I pretty much play normals to

a. play with people from ATPCG
b. learn new champs
c. try stupid non-meta comps

I understand that not all people take normals seriously but there's a difference between try-harding and being competent. Even when playing normal draft and they pick good team comps they just seem to utterly fail. Not sure why that is. Doesn't matter what role I play I can only bring them so far and then they seem to fall a part after laning phase.

At most it's supremely frustrating when you're the only one doing well on the team only to watch them give it up in the team fighting phase. Mainly I haven't been on a losing streak this badly since probably pre lvl 30 days. Though I normally don't play that many games in a row which probably contributes to the frustration.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
I understand that not all people take normals seriously but there's a difference between try-harding and being competent. Even when playing normal draft and they pick good team comps they just seem to utterly fail. Not sure why that is. Doesn't matter what role I play I can only bring them so far and then they seem to fall a part after laning phase.

At most it's supremely frustrating when you're the only one doing well on the team only to watch them give it up in the team fighting phase. Mainly I haven't been on a losing streak this badly since probably pre lvl 30 days. Though I normally don't play that many games in a row which probably contributes to the frustration.

For whatever reason LoL is a streaky game. I'll go through periods where I'm like 9-1 in my recently played and other times I'll be 3-7 or something. All in all I'm noticing my +/- in normal games has been slowly going up, and I have noticed the quality of my solo q normals is actually getting pretty decent. I don't hard carry as often as I used to, my teams don't fail as often either though.

I do notice when I que with certain friends the games get pretty interesting. I played one last night after warming up on some pretty decent players with Zebano. I took Renekton solo top in a 1v2 and totally destroyed some players with 0 jungle ganks because Akali managed to reset blue. Their skill level was below mine because the people I q'd with have a lower normal elo then me I imagine, there is definitely lower and higher normal elo games. The high elo ranked players will often play each other in normals too because their normal elo is high.

I don't think people should try hard in normals. I like that I can pick the heroes I enjoy playing as opposed to having to fill roles I may not enjoy, or getting flamed for taking certain heroes to a specific lane. That's the primary reason I don't play ranked. Certain roles just don't do it for me in a solo que environment, 5 man premades is another issue. But if you do well in normals you will notice the quality of your games going up as your +/- goes up. I have way more fun in normals then in ranked games.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
I understand that not all people take normals seriously but there's a difference between try-harding and being competent. Even when playing normal draft and they pick good team comps they just seem to utterly fail. Not sure why that is. Doesn't matter what role I play I can only bring them so far and then they seem to fall a part after laning phase.

I don't get this try-harding concept... I've had some people accuse me of it (I'm not remotely good), and I'm just not seeing it. I just play the game; are people really expecting me to play better or worse based on how hard I try? It's like slackers who always talk about great they'd be if they just applied themselves (I'm a slacker, but I make no such claims).
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
I don't get this try-harding concept... I've had some people accuse me of it (I'm not remotely good), and I'm just not seeing it. I just play the game; are people really expecting me to play better or worse based on how hard I try? It's like slackers who always talk about great they'd be if they just applied themselves (I'm a slacker, but I make no such claims).

It has various meanings. It doesn't ever do any good to bring it up in /all chat, but I know some of the thinking behind calling a player a try-hard.

The thing is, when you get to a certain level of playing trying to learn a new champion can be really painful or annoying. You can only learn so much by playing vs bots, eventually you have to play it in a real game. And then when you do, nothing is more annoying than playing your new champion in some sub-optimal team while your enemy team is a cookie-cutter jungle/tank/range ad/support/ap ranked style team including all 4 of the popular bans of the week.

I lied. Something is more annoying, it's when you get such a team, and then do well and dominate your lane even though you are on some new champ in a sub-optimal pug team and you lose the game anyway because the cookie cutter 4X banned champ premade annihilates your team in team fights.

The problem is that blind pick normal games don't really have a purpose in the game. You would think they would be the game to play when you want to try a new champion, but they are also the queue of choice for premade groups who have some plan of playing the most ridiculous comps that could never exist in a draft game with bans.

That is the sort of "try hard" players that bug me, and where I'd use the term. But the term's usage is pretty broad at this point, and even a solo queue playing a generally weak champion but doing decently well might be called a tryhard, for no real reason. There just isn't any logic behind the way some people behave on the internet.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
As most know, I pretty much only play solo normal games. I have found that I am really good at Dominion ...when people actually show some sort of competency I seem to be able to carry to a win. I am +20 right now. (whereever I am..but shows gold in all areas.)

That being said, I can't win a Summoners rift game to save my life. I've carried as much as I can carry and still lose. I'm convinced it's the surrender feature. People just don't TRY. If they aren't wtfowning, they give up. They don't really have the time to do that in Dominion.

When playing solo, I play what I want w/o a real care for team comp. Most times no one else cares anyway and usually it's just the squishy instalockers that complain about not having a tank.
 
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Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
That being said, I can't win a Summoners rift game to save my life. I've carried as much as I can carry and still lose. I'm convinced it's the surrender feature. People just don't TRY. If they aren't wtfowning, they give up. They don't really have the time to do that in Dominion.

Yeah, I kinda hate the surrender option. In Dota2 beta, there is currently no surrender command. However, if a player disconnects and doesn't reconnect within 5 minutes the game is considered abandoned, and others can leave at will. Of the games I've played so far people will always play it out even if someone drops.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
"Priscilla's Blessing are no longer purchasable in the Dominion game mode"

Uh, might as well remove it from the game then. WTF? Couldn't they just nerf it or increase the price if it was too strong?
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
New mastery pages are killing me right now. I'm too used to the previous one and keep looking up and down the tree to find my balance.

Case in point, for olaf, I went high into utility and defense. However for the new pages, i have a good incentive to go down the offense page because the other pages tend to take too many useless things to get to the masteries I want, while the offensive page is more or less all helpful
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
New mastery pages are killing me right now. I'm too used to the previous one and keep looking up and down the tree to find my balance.

Case in point, for olaf, I went high into utility and defense. However for the new pages, i have a good incentive to go down the offense page because the other pages tend to take too many useless things to get to the masteries I want, while the offensive page is more or less all helpful
yeah I really think 21/9/0 is going to be very popular nowadays among jungler/solo tops. AP mids and supports may get the exp mastery but I doubt it will be as common as it used to be. Even aggressive AP characters can find lots of good masteries going 21/0/9.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
For anyone who plays ranked games and doesn't jungle or support ever, please read this.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/...Fc_kfOEG81lad7c1GJIKqU/preview?pli=1&sle=true

The rest of you should read it because it's a well written/researched bit of statistics on team composition and which team wins. Hint gold is a better metric than KDA or CS (naturally since it's an aggregate of both of them and they correlate to winning at about a 90% and 75% clip on their own).

edit: also imples that a disconnect is better than a feeder.
 

nanobreath

Senior member
May 14, 2008
978
0
0
Interesting read, thanks!

I like how he mentions that with only a 2.26% of the population acting as trolls, you have a 10% chance to have one on your team still. Too bad this couldn't be broken down by ELO at all.
 

sash1

Diamond Member
Jul 20, 2001
8,896
1
0
gonna spend some time tonight testing out the new masteries with my junglers.

i like the changes overall, just gonna take some time to figure out where the points are best spent.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Yep, interesting read. I also like the troll statistics. It just seems I get more than my fair share of that 10%. I'm closer to 30% it feels like. I have more trolls in ranked solo than normal solo as well.

As for the winning for the type of troll. I agree on that as well. I have one 4v5 games easier than 5v5 games where one person has fed early and hard. I count 3+ deaths by the 10 minute mark as FEEDING if those deaths were due to mistakes or bad positioning. I can't fault someone for the other team all tower diving early, but usually then it's a trade on deaths so it isn't nearly as bad.

A feeding troll early on may stop feeding, but they have already hurt their team tremendously. More so if they lost a tower early. It ruins your jungle, and now your other lanes are prone to ganks because the other team can roam in groups easier. Which in turns snowballs into more kills for the other team. Which means more gold, and even a bigger hole to climb out of. Not that it is impossible to win at this point, but the winning and fed team has to make some bad team fight mistakes afterwards to lose.


Moral of the story, early on play passively and don't over extend. Focus on CS. Once mid game hits, THEN focus on kills and assists. Dying early a few times will screw your team over pretty easily.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
Yep, interesting read. I also like the troll statistics. It just seems I get more than my fair share of that 10%. I'm closer to 30% it feels like. I have more trolls in ranked solo than normal solo as well.

As for the winning for the type of troll. I agree on that as well. I have one 4v5 games easier than 5v5 games where one person has fed early and hard. I count 3+ deaths by the 10 minute mark as FEEDING if those deaths were due to mistakes or bad positioning. I can't fault someone for the other team all tower diving early, but usually then it's a trade on deaths so it isn't nearly as bad.

A feeding troll early on may stop feeding, but they have already hurt their team tremendously. More so if they lost a tower early. It ruins your jungle, and now your other lanes are prone to ganks because the other team can roam in groups easier. Which in turns snowballs into more kills for the other team. Which means more gold, and even a bigger hole to climb out of. Not that it is impossible to win at this point, but the winning and fed team has to make some bad team fight mistakes afterwards to lose.


Moral of the story, early on play passively and don't over extend. Focus on CS. Once mid game hits, THEN focus on kills and assists. Dying early a few times will screw your team over pretty easily.

I would love to see this correlated by Elo. I started at 1271 the first day of preseason, carried that game, then shifted to maining support and was quickly into the 14xx range 9I play Morg when I can and pretty just fill in team comp with whatever we need). I've literally had one absolute feeder and no AFKs (a couple of DCs that came back) in 60+ ranked games. Every time I play normal ... it's a massive crapshoot as to what I get and if we even have a chance to win (hell, I troll normal games).

The stats that teams with Junger (w/ smite) + Support (w/ CV) win >>>> 50% of games is logical. Kill lanes are fun, but rarely work out against intelligent opponents. Maximize that gold for 4 people, secure buffs/dragons and have one person who is still useful as a ward bitch (everyone else should still buy wards) works for the pros and appears to work for everyone else too.


It also says that Rally wins 43% of games it's taken in. Mind blown.

Heh, that's quite low so hopefully I just missed the sarcasm.

gonna spend some time tonight testing out the new masteries with my junglers.

i like the changes overall, just gonna take some time to figure out where the points are best spent.

Good luck with that, I've heard servers are so busy that you need 3+ people for custom games to start =( That said, I've also heard of some great clear times (3:15 Phoenix Udyr without a pull). Let me know how it goes since I'll have to adjust my Trundle, Udyr and Lee Sin setups though I assume all will be going 21/9/0 or something close to that.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
I mean those stats are obviously old, before Revive/Tele Karth was fotm. It is interesting that those summoner spells have all have above 50% but Rally. The stats rely on the uploaded games, makes me assume that most people who upload games have above 50% win rate, which probably slightly skews the stats. An interesting read none the less.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Full patch notes:

Code:
New Skins in the Store

    Atlantean Fizz
    Tundra Fizz
    Amethyst Ashe
    Temple Jax

PVP.net Store

    Added a filter to search skins by Champion
    Added a filter to search only Legendary skins
    Added the ability to search multiple items at once by using “+” to separate search terms
    Made performance enhancements

PVP.net v1.48

    Removed the Halloween icons for Health and Mana Potions
    Fixed a bug causing certain Summoner Names to have errors in Champion Select

League of Legends v1.0.0.129
Fizz, the Tidal Trickster

    Urchin Strike
        Fizz dashes through his target, dealing normal attack damage plus additional magic damage.
    Seastone Trident
        Passive: Fizz's attacks rend his target, applying a damage over time effect that strengthens if the opponent is low on life.
        Active: Fizz's attacks are empowered, dealing additional magic damage and causing grievous wounds to his opponents.
    Playful / Trickster
        Fizz hops onto his staff, becoming untargetable. He may then choose to slam the ground or hop off to another location
    Chum the Waters (Ultimate)
        Fizz flings a fish that can bind itself onto enemy champions - After a brief delay, a Shark will emerge from the earth to eat the fish, dealing damage and knocking back all enemy champions.
    Nimble Fighter (Passive)
        Fizz's dexterity allows him to ignore unit collision and take less damage from basic attacks.

Akali

    Twin Disciplines
        Initial spell vamp gained upon obtaining 10 bonus attack damage reduced to 8% from 10%
        Additional spell vamp reduced to 1% per 6 attack damage from 1% per 5 attack damage
        Initial magic damage bonus upon obtaining 20 ability power reduced to 8% from 10%
        Additional magic damage bonus reduced to 1% per 6 ability power from 1% per 5 ability power
    Mark of the Assassin
        Projectile base damage and proc base damage reduced to 45/70/95/120/145 from 50/75/100/125/150

Caitlyn

    Base movement speed reduced to 300 from 305

Corki

    Phosphorus Bomb
        Base damage increased to 80/130/180/230/280 from 70/120/170/220/270
        Now reveals champions for 6 seconds in addition to revealing the area for 6 seconds (does not reveal stealth)

Ezreal

    Essence Flux is now correctly flagged as an area effect spell

Graves

    General
        Attack range reduced to 525 from 550
        Base mana lowered to 295 from 342
    Buckshot damage per additional missile reduced to 25% from 30%
    Fixed a few small tooltip errors

Kassadin

    Null Sphere cast range reduced to 650 from 700
    Force Pulse damage increased at earlier ranks to 80/130/180/230/280 from 60/115/170/225/280

Katarina

    Shunpo
        Now moves Katarina in front of the target
        When Killer Instincts is active, Katarina moves behind the target

Kog'Maw

    Bio-Arcane Barrage attack range bonus reduced to 130/150/170/190/210 from 130/160/190/220/250

Malphite

    Base armor increased to 21.75 from 16.75
    Brutal Strikes cooldown reduced to 14 seconds from 16 seconds
    Ground Slam cooldown reduced to 7 seconds from 8 seconds

Master Yi

    Alpha Strike mana cost reduced to 60/70/80/90/100 from 80/90/100/110/120
    Highlander mana cost reduced to 100 from 120

Miss Fortune

    Bullet Time attack damage ratio increased to .45 from .4

Nocturne

    Unspeakable Horror
        Cast range reduced to 425 from 500
        Tether range reduced to 465 from 525

Olaf

    Olaf is now immune to blinds and silences while Ragnarok is active

Orianna

    General
        Base mana regen increased to 7 per 5 seconds from 4.5 per 5 seconds.
        Mana regen per level increased to .5 per 5 seconds from .45 per 5 seconds
    Command: Attack cast range increased to 825 from 800

Rumble

    The Equalizer now works with smart cast (Hold down the smart cast hotkey to mark the beginning of the line, and release the hotkey to cast)

Sion

    Cryptic Gaze ability power ratio reduced to .9 from 1
    Death's Caress ability power ratio reduced to .9 from 1

Sona

    Aria of Perseverance
        Mana cost adjusted to 60/65/70/75/80 from 65 at all ranks
        Passive aura reduced to 7/9/11/13/15 armor and magic resist from 8/11/14/17/20

Teemo

    Noxious Trap now has an ammo stack and reload time indicator on the buff bar

Tristana

    Base attack damage increased to 46.5 from 44.5
    Tristana will now automatically attack the target she casts Explosive Shot on
    Buster Shot
        Knockback radius increased to 200 from 175
        Now has an indicator around the target to show knockback radius (similar to Brand's Conflagration)

Vladimir

    Fixed a bug where the display range for Tides of Blood was much shorter than the actual range

Items

    Wriggles Lantern Life Steal reduced to 15% from 18%
    Odyn's Veil no longer triggers spellcast effects like Sheen, Tear of the Goddess, or Ryze's passive
    Warmog's Armor and Priscilla's Blessing are no longer purchasable in the Dominion game mode

General

    Added small amounts of experience to various jungle monsters in order to maintain current jungling paths without the necessity of the Awareness mastery (which increases experience gained)
    Dr. Mundo's Burning Agony, Irelia's Ionian Duelist, Trundle's Contaminate, and Singed's Insanity Potion now additionally reduce silences and blinds, but no longer allow them to walk through persistent slowing fields such as Kog'Maw's Void Ooze when stacked with other disable duration reductions (ie: Tenacity)
    Death Recap
        Improved Death Recap to show more accurate damage over a longer period of time
        Fixed numerous bugs with the display of ability damage
    Masteries have been remade
    Improved Summoner Spells are now condensed into 3 masteries, each at the first tier of their respective trees
        Summoner's Wrath improves Offense tree Summoner Spells
        Summoner's Resolve improves Defense tree Summoner Spells
        Summoner's Insight improves Utility tree Summoner Spells
    All summoner spell icons have been updated
    "Welcome to the Crystal Scar" announcement will now play at the start of a Dominion game
    Fixed a bug where Allied Player Portraits would not update unless they were on your screen
    Fixed a bug where Champion outlines would appear as boxes while in grass
    Fixed a bug that caused an error to appear in chat on Dominion

Summoner Spells

    Clairvoyance
        Cooldown increased to 70 seconds from 55
        Improved Clairvoyance increases duration by 2 seconds, down from 4 and no longer reduces the cooldown
    Cleanse
        Now cleanses summoner spell debuffs such as Exhaust's movement speed and damage reduction and Ignite's damage over time
        Cooldown increased to 210 seconds from 150 seconds
        Improved Cleanse no longer reduces cooldown, but now extends the secondary disable reduction buff by 1 second
    Exhaust
        Duration reduced to 2.5 seconds from 3 seconds
        Improved Exhaust no longer increases the duration
    Flash
        Cooldown increased to 265 seconds from 255 seconds
        Range reduced to 400 from 450
    Fortify
        Removed
    Garrison
        Now usable at Summoner Level 1, down from Summoner Level 4
    Ghost
        Now improved in the Offense Mastery tree instead of Utility
    Heal
        Heal amount per level increased to 25 from 20
        Improved Heal no longer reduces the cooldown but now increases the amount healed by 15%
    Promote
        Added to Summoner's Rift
        Promotes the nearest allied siege minion, increasing its attack range, health, armor, and magic resist. 180 second cooldown base.
        Improved in the Utility tree - Improved Promote increases the defensive bonus stats of promoted minions by 15%
        Now usable at Summoner Level 8 (on both the Crystal Scar and Summoner's Rift), up from Summoner Level 1
    Rally
        Removed
    Revive
        Health bonus upon reviving is now innate to the spell (as opposed to requiring Improved Revive)
        Improved Revive now grants a 125% movement speed increase upon revival (Improved Revive no longer grants a 225% movement speed increase)
    Smite
        Now improved in the Defense tree instead of Offense
        Improved Smite no longer reduces cooldown but the gold gained on cast is increased to 10 from 5
        Cooldown reduced to 70 seconds from 75 seconds
    Surge *New*
        Empowers your champion, increasing ability power by 10-78 (depending on level) and attack speed by 35% for 12 seconds (220 second cooldown)
        Improved Surge increases the attack speed bonus to 40% and ability power gained by 10%
        Usable at summoner level 1
    Teleport
        Summoner's Insight no longer reduces cooldown

I'm hearing Fizz is pretty OP. Playful/Trickster is much like Vlad's pool and Sealstone Trident on-hit passive DOT is powerful at rank 5 (70 + .35AP + 8% of missing HP). Plus all his stuff is 10 second or less CDs.

Happy that Orianna got some buffs. The nerf that Attack's range got was debilitating to her game and so hopefully this makes her useful again.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I would love to see this correlated by Elo. I started at 1271 the first day of preseason, carried that game, then shifted to maining support and was quickly into the 14xx range 9I play Morg when I can and pretty just fill in team comp with whatever we need). I've literally had one absolute feeder and no AFKs (a couple of DCs that came back) in 60+ ranked games. Every time I play normal ... it's a massive crapshoot as to what I get and if we even have a chance to win (hell, I troll normal games).

The stats that teams with Junger (w/ smite) + Support (w/ CV) win >>>> 50% of games is logical. Kill lanes are fun, but rarely work out against intelligent opponents. Maximize that gold for 4 people, secure buffs/dragons and have one person who is still useful as a ward bitch (everyone else should still buy wards) works for the pros and appears to work for everyone else too.

I started with at 1200. First game I went in had a troll and same with the next 4. I dropped to 1100 quickly. Won a couple more than got stuck with more trolls. Dropped to 1000 even quicker. I chalked it up to everyone wanting to play rank right as the season reset which allowed the really bad trolls back in to join with the halfway decent players. I was at once point sitting at 15 losses and 3 wins in ranked. I managed to finally claw my way back up to even when I reached 24 losses and 24 wins. Then lately I've ran into a string of trolls again once I reached 1200 during rank.

What bugs me is that I typically jungle, play tank, or support. I try to fill in the roles needed. I prefer that. It doesn't help when you get pure trolls. Here are the problems I typically encounter when playing a given role.

1) As a jungler: I know the game is headed fast into the losing column when the following happens. I get counter jungled hard with no support from the nearest lane. It's one thing to be at mini golems or red buff and have the other jungler come try to duel you or steal some jungle. It's another when you are dueling and every single person on the other team manages to leave their lane to help their jungler in your jungle while your team sits on their ass and then blames you. I'm sorry but if the bottom lane can come all the way to top and still make it back without any significant tower damage (at low levels there isn't going to be) then your team should be doing the same.

The other problem I run into is lanes that fail hard. They die 3+ deaths before 10 minutes without trading those deaths. Which means they are feeding from being over extended or tower diving too early. Then they blame the jungler for not ganking their lane as to why they have those deaths. A jungler can't be everywhere and when multiple lanes are failing it is not the junglers fault. In fact, it is NEVER the junglers fault for your deaths in lane. I only blame a jungler if they never make a gank attempt or fail miserably on their ganks and die. Or are so slow than they are still level 6 when other players are all pushing 8 to 10. Then they become worthless from being so far behind for just being slow.

2) As a tank. I know the game is headed to a loss when your team never follows through your initiation. Especially when you have the other team out of position, low life, and with an easy kill with no chance of dying for your team members if all nearby ones join in.

The other problem is people get anxious right before a team fight and initiate without the tank or go in too early to get blasted away. This really hurts if they are your teams main dps. Be patient, wait on the tank, and follow in when the tank goes in. Pick your targets wisely. The tank's target may not be the target the team needs to focus on. Typically most tanks have some sort of disable, that is best used on another major disabler before they can get their disable off first. Thus the tanks target may not be the primary target. The tank may go after the other tank first just so that the other team's squishies now have no protection and are easier to kill. The problem is when the rest of your team is too stupid to realize this and goes automatically for the wrong target.

3) As a support. All the above times 10. A good support can make a mediocre team GREAT. But it can't improve upon shit. I consider a support character like a multiplier character. However, you can't multiple by zero, if that is what the rest of your team is, and expect to be any better. If your tanks don't get tank items, if your dps doesn't get dps items, and if they are horrible at positioning and judging the best time to either strike or retreat, a good support isn't going to fix this at all. They can make it less likely a team mistake ends up in a catastrophic failure that costs the game, but they can't fix a catastrophic failure of a team in the first place.

4) As DPS. If you are the pure dps char on the team, you still have to rely on a tank that knows what they are doing. A good support is nice as well. I'm not talking about a support that is playing a gung ho Soraka trying to starcall to death the enemies in bottom lane at level 1 while stealing all the CS. That is way too common a problem I run into when I play the DPS role.

Personally when I do DPS or bruiser I like to be in the solo lane. I KNOW I am 90% of the time going to win that lane or keep it at a wash. I rarely ever lose a solo lane. Unfortunately I get so many people that demand and cry over having that solo lane. Only to watch them lose it horribly and early.

5) As a bruiser. At least as a bruiser I have the "least" problems. I'm not as nearly considered about a tank that isn't initiating or not being tanky enough. I'm not considered about DPS not dishing out the damage as much as they should. Why? Because as a bruiser I can usually take up the slack in either case. I can't take up the slack in BOTH cases, which does happen, but if one or the other is lacking I can shore that fault up on my team with a bruiser.

Again my only real problem with bring a bruiser is getting true trolls in other lanes. I may be doing awesome with 5+ kills in my lane and tons of CS, but the other two lanes all have 5+ deaths each and little to no kills. Then they just give up. Some bruisers can carry better than others, but nothing can be done if your team quits cause they sucked early and hardcore.




That's been my experiences thus far.