League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

[Chiropteran]

I think i'm up to 12 losses in a row. Had a bad weekend. At least I still have my next 10 win IP bonus, since I didn't win any.

 

[zebano]

I think i'm up to 12 losses in a row. Had a bad weekend. At least I still have my next 10 win IP bonus, since I didn't win any.

ouch, I had a rough streak but pulled out of it at the end. I think I only have 5 wins left on the IP bonus.

Actually when I lose more 3 in a row I know it's time to take a break as I'm usually playing very very poorly.

 

[HumblePie]

So Fenix, do you have any pro Kassadin tips? For some reason he's one champ I just cannot get the hang of. Morgana is banned so often that I need another AP mid option.

Why not try Malz, Brand or Cass mid? They are good mid AP chars.

As for Kass, it's pretty easy with him. Run in with your null sphere to silence and run out. Constant harass with that. Save your Pulse until they are less than half health. When you hit 6 it's a matter of riftwalk + sphere + pulse = dead. Build up AP fast. Two Doran Rings + boots + Deathcap rush works wonders for him. Rylai's after that.

In team fights use your sphere to poke. Save your Walk and Pulse for either chasing or finishing. Do not jump in to the middle of the team fight unless you are going to immediately flash back out. Especially if they haven't blown their CC on your other team mates. He's impossible to run from and impossible to chase if played well. His DPS can be insane as burst AP too.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Note to self, play Carries only when in duo queue. I love it when I go 15/6 or something insane but the team sucks SO HARD that you can't carry it.

I tend to play tanky dps on these games, but I quickly realized that its impossible to carry with just a tanky dps.

So...many...losses.

 

[zebano]

Why not try Malz, Brand or Cass mid? They are good mid AP chars.

As for Kass, it's pretty easy with him. Run in with your null sphere to silence and run out. Constant harass with that. Save your Pulse until they are less than half health. When you hit 6 it's a matter of riftwalk + sphere + pulse = dead. Build up AP fast. Two Doran Rings + boots + Deathcap rush works wonders for him. Rylai's after that.

In team fights use your sphere to poke. Save your Walk and Pulse for either chasing or finishing. Do not jump in to the middle of the team fight unless you are going to immediately flash back out. Especially if they haven't blown their CC on your other team mates. He's impossible to run from and impossible to chase if played well. His DPS can be insane as burst AP too.

Cass is one of my mains but I don't own Brand or Malz.

1. Kass is slightly OP, and I like to be able to play the OP champs if I own them.
2. I like to be able to play all the characters I own, and this gives me someone to play when I'm derping around in normals.
3. My main problem is not what to build, it's rather how to properly position, when to riftwalk in, and when not to. Another problem is that since I smartcast when I try to chain riftwalk + slow, I often accidentally cast the slow behind me.

 

[zebano]

Note to self, play Carries only when in duo queue. I love it when I go 15/6 or something insane but the team sucks SO HARD that you can't carry it.

I tend to play tanky dps on these games, but I quickly realized that its impossible to carry with just a tanky dps.

So...many...losses.

meh, if you're going 15/6 it doesn't matter if you do it with Caitlyn or Nasus. In almost all cases you cannot actually carry 4 people who are that bad. You also have to remember that while Cait may have a great early game she doesn't have as big of an impact lategame as a Vayne or Ashe will.

 

[HumblePie]

Cass is one of my mains but I don't own Brand or Malz.

1. Kass is slightly OP, and I like to be able to play the OP champs if I own them.
2. I like to be able to play all the characters I own, and this gives me someone to play when I'm derping around in normals.
3. My main problem is not what to build, it's rather how to properly position, when to riftwalk in, and when not to. Another problem is that since I smartcast when I try to chain riftwalk + slow, I often accidentally cast the slow behind me.

Stop smart casting maybe?

I only rarely get that bug of shooting backwards when I aim something forward. Some chars are more prone to it than others such as nidalee. As for when to riftwalk, you do so one anyone low life if you are using it for an attack. With enough AP it can do ridiculous damage. I saw a Kass damn near one shotting squisies one game with his riftwalk and 900+ AP.

Kass is a poking char. Not so much into the teamfights as other chars but his job is to get at the squishies and take them out during a team fight. You have to make sure the other team is focused on hopefully your team tank before you make your move. If they are protecting their squishies good then as a Kass you are going to have a hard time killing people. Kass excels at the smaller skirmish of 1v1 duels, or 2v2s, or even 3v3s. He's still damn decent in a team fight, but other AP carries are better such as Brand for 5v5s.

Kass is the best counter pick against any support character though. A silenced support char isn't helping their team much at all in team fights.

 

[Taejin]

Cass is one of my mains but I don't own Brand or Malz.

1. Kass is slightly OP, and I like to be able to play the OP champs if I own them.
2. I like to be able to play all the characters I own, and this gives me someone to play when I'm derping around in normals.
3. My main problem is not what to build, it's rather how to properly position, when to riftwalk in, and when not to. Another problem is that since I smartcast when I try to chain riftwalk + slow, I often accidentally cast the slow behind me.

play against a good kassadin and then try to play like them.

kassadin requires a slightly devious mindset, and maximal use of using his R to traverse terrain. It also helps if you understand the 'flow' of a game and are properly positioned to pick off enemy champions that will be at low health.

Also pro kiting to E spam.

BTW, you should prioritize Q until its level 2, then max E first, getting R every chance you can.

And I hope you're going RoA /boots 2 first. Then deathcap -> penetration rod -> w/e else you want.

Never use R to initiate if you can help it. R should be used so you can reposition yourself in a fight after you use Q/E.

 

[Taejin]

Stop smart casting maybe?

I only rarely get that bug of shooting backwards when I aim something forward. Some chars are more prone to it than others such as nidalee. As for when to riftwalk, you do so one anyone low life if you are using it for an attack. With enough AP it can do ridiculous damage. I saw a Kass damn near one shotting squisies one game with his riftwalk and 900+ AP.

Kass is a poking char. Not so much into the teamfights as other chars but his job is to get at the squishies and take them out during a team fight. You have to make sure the other team is focused on hopefully your team tank before you make your move. If they are protecting their squishies good then as a Kass you are going to have a hard time killing people. Kass excels at the smaller skirmish of 1v1 duels, or 2v2s, or even 3v3s. He's still damn decent in a team fight, but other AP carries are better such as Brand for 5v5s.

Kass is the best counter pick against any support character though. A silenced support char isn't helping their team much at all in team fights.

Kassadin is an AP character, yes, but his primarily role is as an assassin/counterpick to champions, not an AP carry in the mold of Brand/Annie/Cass etc.

Kass will hard counter most AP carries and is a huge threat to AD carries. And its difficult to protect against his poke, esp if you draw them into the jungle.

edit: I never have issues with smartcast with Kassadin, I do have problems with E if i cast it too quickly after R though.

 

[Fenixgoon]

So Fenix, do you have any pro Kassadin tips? For some reason he's one champ I just cannot get the hang of. Morgana is banned so often that I need another AP mid option.

the biggest thing for kassadin (in my opinion) is getting your mana regen to the point where you can constantly harass without running out of mana.

his W helps you regain mana, but it can be tough if the opposing champ is ranged and can easily harass you, especially physical damage champs. kass' passive is 15% dmg reduction on magic damage, which means you can rofl at enemy casters generally.

usually levels 1-5 are tough for me. getting to 6 makes a world of difference. for straight AP kass, i start off with Q, W, E, Q, Q. Q has pretty good base damage, so it works great against enemy spellcasters who are usually squishy. obviously at 6 you take R. generally i'll start harassing pretty heavily - R in, Q, and run back. beat on some minions to regain mana, and repeat.

for items, you can start doran's or meki/crystal + pots. then i build tear + boots1, sorc boots, and it really all depends from there. hextech/tome is good for the AP + vamp, which will give you a bit better sustainability. i really like abyssal scepter, but it's expensive as hell IMO.

if you need some physical defense, i like soul shroud a lot - armor, mana, and CDR for 1500g is pretty damn good IMO.

for magic defense, you can either go abyssal or banshees - abyssal gives you AP + Mpen, while banshees gives you HP/MP and the shield. i generally go abyssal, but honestly i think banshees might be the better choice on account of HP + shield, but i haven't tested it out. most casters are bursty as opposed to doing sustained damage, so BV is probably the way to go.

for AP+CDR, i like morello's evil tome (i guess you could probably get nashor's for a little less AP, slightly more CDR and some ASPD).

once i build some straight AP items, i finish archangel's - you'll want to build up the mana bonus from tear (+soul shroud is more mana) before getting AA.



now for aspd kass...that's ONLY if you know you're going to be laning against a caster. otherwise you WILL get screwed since kass' passive will not apply. aspd kass starts with regrowth + mana pot, boots1 + the 800g hp steal item, wit's end, finish boots, complete stark's. all said and done the "base" item build is a mere 6k gold.

the beauty of aspd kass is you get good magic resist (i go 0/21/9 to get a total of 19% magic damage reduction, not including MR), life steal, magic damage from wit's end, and magic damage from W. i want to figure out how to take advantage of W's AP ratio, but in the end building more aspd might be better.

after the base items (all untested at this point), i'd probably say to finish any defensive items you might need (armor/MR/hp). i think phage (into triforce or mallet) would be good for the slow, but at the same time, i like madred's for even more aspd and magic damage.

kass actually has good base damage, and level 5 W adds 60(!!!) magic damage with 0 AP. wit's end adds another 42, and if you get madreds, that'd be another 30 (physical) and 60-80 magic (1500-2000hp champ), so in total you're doing almost 300dmg/attack with W on active, and you have serious ASPD and life steal to sustain you.

the most hilarious aspd kass i've played so far was against a karthas. sure lay waste is a cute harassing tool, but his AOE basically guaranteed his death. kass' passive, in addition to giving 15% magic damage reduction, also gives an ASPD buff. so i'd sit in karthas' AOE and progressively attack faster and faster, and just beat him DOWN

that being said, ASPD kass is absolutely a hardcore assassin. without any additional hp/armor/MR, ASPD kass is not teamfight friendly. unless you happen to atmog's afterwards, which would be hilarious and awesome.


also: totally forgot this one, avoid chaining riftwalks unless absolutely necessary. each riftwalk costs an additonal 100 mana, which doesnt seem like much until your next riftwalk costs 500 mana and you cant cast it when you absolutely need to.

i don't build RoA, but it seems like a solid pick for any caster - HP, MP, AP. can't go wrong with that combo.

 

[HumblePie]

Kassadin is an AP character, yes, but his primarily role is as an assassin/counterpick to champions, not an AP carry in the mold of Brand/Annie/Cass etc.

Kass will hard counter most AP carries and is a huge threat to AD carries. And its difficult to protect against his poke, esp if you draw them into the jungle.

edit: I never have issues with smartcast with Kassadin, I do have problems with E if i cast it too quickly after R though.

The build I was referring to is the ones I've seen used by CLG and Solomid and few other higher ELO guide players.

They all seem to go Dorans ring -> boots -> Dorans ring -> Needlessly Large Rod

If they are getting focused they then buy Giant's belt and start working towards Rylai's. Otherwise they complete to deathcap first and the Rylai's.


Sorc boots + Deathcap + Rylai's seem to be the three core items of every high ELO Kassadin build I've seen. Almost exclusively. After that it changes based on the enemies being fought and the preferences of the player. Some go Banshee Veil, some Abysal scepter, some go ROA, some go Chalice, some go Archangels, some go WotA, some go Soul Shroud, or Tome. Very few go Deathfire Grasp and that is only against a huge bruiser tanky dps team.

All the above are great items for him depending upon whom you are fighting. And Kassadin can most certainly be the same AP burst equivalent as a Malz or Annie. He can actually be bigger on burst if he has a built up riftwalk. Since you can stack the damage output of riftwalk up to 10 times, if you land on someone with a 900+ AP with 10 stacks of riftwalk then you WILL one shot them. I've seen it. Saw a Kass hit for almost 3400 damage with one effing Riftwalk into a group. You need the mana and mana regen to sustain doing that. Which is where Archangel and Chalice some in.

Basically if you going for ultra AP damage Kass you wait for a team fight to start brewing. Then you make your way over there by building up your riftwalk. When you get there as the team fight starts you riftwalk in to insta pop just about anyone you land on. Pop a sphere to silence their next major threat, and then pulse anyone that panics and tries to run. At which point riftwalk should be available to use again. Then you pop on top of someone else. The best part is if people are clustered together. The AoE, although small, can still hit up to three people if they are close enough together when kassadin does his riftwalk.




But as Fenix says, there are other ways to play him too. He is a counter pick for sure. He hard counters just about any other AP carry. But he can be a pure AP carry himself if built that way.

 

[crownjules]

Ocelot seems to always build Kass Catalyst -> ROA -> NLR -> DC. I think it's very important with Kass to build survivability early because his kit necessitates getting in the face of the enemy and taking some damage.

 

[HumblePie]

Ocelot seems to always build Kass Catalyst -> ROA -> NLR -> DC. I think it's very important with Kass to build survivability early because his kit necessitates getting in the face of the enemy and taking some damage.

Depends on how you play him. He's perfect for trading pokes with the enemy. This is because R + Q allows you to move into range and hit them hard with a silence so they can't retaliate and then gtfo. Playing this way doesn't need to build survivability items first. Your job is a harasser, assassin, and chaser. No one else can close in on and shut down a Kass on the backline that is paying attention. The 700 HP from two Dorans + Rylai's is usally plenty of sustain mid game. The reason I see most going DC or at least Rod first is to allow them to get kills easier and faster. This in turns gets them gold faster to get the sustain items for WHEN they'll need it in the bigger team fights. You can easily have 2 dorans + boots + rod at level 8. At which point you can work on a DC and have that by level 10-12. Rylai's in the next level after that. At which point you should be rolling in the kills and cash.

 

[Taejin]

Depends on how you play him. He's perfect for trading pokes with the enemy. This is because R + Q allows you to move into range and hit them hard with a silence so they can't retaliate and then gtfo. Playing this way doesn't need to build survivability items first. Your job is a harasser, assassin, and chaser. No one else can close in on and shut down a Kass on the backline that is paying attention. The 700 HP from two Dorans + Rylai's is usally plenty of sustain mid game. The reason I see most going DC or at least Rod first is to allow them to get kills easier and faster. This in turns gets them gold faster to get the sustain items for WHEN they'll need it in the bigger team fights. You can easily have 2 dorans + boots + rod at level 8. At which point you can work on a DC and have that by level 10-12. Rylai's in the next level after that. At which point you should be rolling in the kills and cash.

the doran's ring build is only appropriate for lanes that kassadin is winning.

unfortunately kassadin's laning isn't actually all that strong generally. And you aren't playing (unless im mistaken) in ranked games (well..whoever 'you' is) where you'd choose Kassadin to specifically counterpick. And you don't get the same level of jungle support or whatnot these players get. I think.

 

[nsafreak]

Surprise party fiddlesticks is here. Any bets on how much money Riot is going to rake in? 975 RP for this skin.

 

[Chiropteran]

Surprise party fiddlesticks is here. Any bets on how much money Riot is going to rake in? 975 RP for this skin.

It sure looks different. I'll stick with spectral fiddlesticks though. I rarely buy skins as it is, and I really don't have much desire to spend money for a skin when I already have a custom skin I like for that champion.

My loss streak seems to be over. It's odd, but after I won one game things went "back to normal" and I've been winning every other game at least.

Free irelia week annoys the hell out of me. I never really analyzed her until a few weeks ago, and I see how blatantly OP she is late game it's just stupid. Even a bad irelia who feeds early game will be dangerous after 30 minutes, just because of the base damage on her skills and the cooldowns (or lack thereof). 6 second bladesurge, really? The good irelias solo teams, the bad ones still require 1-2 friends to beat, it seems.

She is somewhat weak early game, but unless you have a premade designed to really out-push and win in the first 30 minutes it doesn't matter, as she WILL reach high level eventually no matter how hard you try to deny her.

 

[Magusigne]

This IP boost is great. up to 9k IP.

What are today's sale specials?

Can't look at work;p

 

[Abel007]

This IP boost is great. up to 9k IP.

What are today's sale specials?

Can't look at work;p

Blitz(487 RP or 3150IP), Nidalee(487 RP or 3150IP), and Nocturne(487 RP or 6300IP).

 

[Magusigne]

Blitz(487 RP or 3150IP), Nidalee(487 RP or 3150IP), and Nocturne(487 RP or 6300IP).

Shucks. Was hoping they would have changed today;p

 

[HumblePie]

It sure looks different. I'll stick with spectral fiddlesticks though. I rarely buy skins as it is, and I really don't have much desire to spend money for a skin when I already have a custom skin I like for that champion.

My loss streak seems to be over. It's odd, but after I won one game things went "back to normal" and I've been winning every other game at least.

Free irelia week annoys the hell out of me. I never really analyzed her until a few weeks ago, and I see how blatantly OP she is late game it's just stupid. Even a bad irelia who feeds early game will be dangerous after 30 minutes, just because of the base damage on her skills and the cooldowns (or lack thereof). 6 second bladesurge, really? The good irelias solo teams, the bad ones still require 1-2 friends to beat, it seems.

She is somewhat weak early game, but unless you have a premade designed to really out-push and win in the first 30 minutes it doesn't matter, as she WILL reach high level eventually no matter how hard you try to deny her.

No one champ can "win" a game. No matter how good the player or how OP the champ is. Well I guess if Riot released a champ tomorrow that insta killed at any level all enemy champs on the map at the same time as well as destroying all towers with one hit. Yah that would be an OP champ that would auto win.

However, with the current champs, none of them is capable of "winning" if the rest of your team is just that crappy. I went 29/3/18 last night with my Master Yi jungle. I couldn't carry that game to a win with a bucket. I could pretty much 1v4 the other team. Couldn't quite pull of a 1v5. Master Yi is still pretty stupidly powerful late game with the right build.


Still Irelia is a champ that does get the job done mid to late game. Early game she can be shut down. She is also counter by some champs pretty easily. Blitz can destroy her for example on a tower even late game. So can a Master Yi, WW, or Malz. Someone with massive damage output and CC will rape her even late game. If she goes truly tanky build, which many do, then the ASPD chars with madreds will take her down. Kog, WW, Xin, Trynd, and Teemo can do a good number on her.

Her power lies in the fact she can build really tank and still have damn good damage output. More so because she can be doing true damage, built in life leech, and stunning or slowing people every 6 seconds with a gap closer built right into her stun. So she cna be a beast, but is not impossible to deal with.

 

[HumblePie]

Shucks. Was hoping they would have changed today;p

Character "sales" are only for Riot Point costs. Never are the sales for Influence Points. They do drop the IP costs on champs on occasion, more so lately, but those are permanent decreases. Those are not temporary sale drops.

 

[Chiropteran]

No one champ can "win" a game. No matter how good the player or how OP the champ is. Well I guess if Riot released a champ tomorrow that insta killed at any level all enemy champs on the map at the same time as well as destroying all towers with one hit. Yah that would be an OP champ that would auto win.

....

Her power lies in the fact she can build really tank and still have damn good damage output. More so because she can be doing true damage, built in life leech, and stunning or slowing people every 6 seconds with a gap closer built right into her stun. So she cna be a beast, but is not impossible to deal with.

Re: the first part, it's all a matter of interpretation. No, Irelia can't win 1 vs 5 generally, if the entire team she is on is terrible. But I have seen many games where team A is generally winning, ahead 2-3 towers and 50% advantage on kills, when farmed up irelia on team B comes out and wins a 3 vs 1 fight and turns the game around. She wins games that shouldn't be won. A typical tanky + triforce irelia kills carries in 2-3 hits while ignoring almost all attempts to stop her, and there is a certain inevitability about her that she WILL get to this point at the 30-45 minute mark no matter how hard you "shut her down". I guess this is one of those cases where I greatly preferred DOTA's loss of gold on death- you really can't stop a late game champion from eventually getting strong in LoL. Unless you win before late game, she will get strong simply from the normal gold/5 and gold/5 items and the few last hits she can get even while you deny and gank her as much as possible. It's not just irelia, but she seems to be the strongest in the "lategame strong" catagory. Jax is up there too- I've seen dozens of games where some terrible Jax goes 0-4 early game, but ends up destroying the other team 1vs3 later on just because of the inevitable late game strength the champion has.

As far as your second point, that is it exactly. She builds pure tank except maybe a triforce and/or some lifesteal weapon, and she is still strong enough to kill carries in a couple of hits. Bladesurge, stun/slow, a couple auto-attacks and the carry is dead. I've never really seen any champion deal with a late game irelia alone, usually the only way to win those games are to catch her alone and gank her with 3+ champions and pray you can kill her.

I think you have her abilities confused some- bladesurge isn't a stun or slow, only a gap closer, but it's so strong because it's base cooldown is only 6 seconds ( it's around 4 seconds for a real lategame irelia with some cooldown reduction) and in addition to closing the gap it's dealing some 400-500 damage each cast, and it's cooldown resets on minion kills. It can be used to gap close almost at will when you are chasing down a lane since each cast will kill the minion targeted. Her passive stacks with tenacity, meaning you can barely CC her if you try to gank her with more than 1 champion.

I guess I should just start playing her, that seems to be the best way to see a champion get "fixed".

 

[RPD]

Man I can't STAND bad dominon players. Last night this guy kept going into 1v4 fights to "defend" a node just to die. Mean while 4 other OPEN nodes are open for capture.

Arrrggghhhh

 

[ivan2]

If you are down 5-0 at cap points (evidently by you mention of 4 other capturables plus the one they are amassing at), it is hardly a single player's fault

 

[HumblePie]

Re: the first part, it's all a matter of interpretation. No, Irelia can't win 1 vs 5 generally, if the entire team she is on is terrible. But I have seen many games where team A is generally winning, ahead 2-3 towers and 50% advantage on kills, when farmed up irelia on team B comes out and wins a 3 vs 1 fight and turns the game around. She wins games that shouldn't be won. A typical tanky + triforce irelia kills carries in 2-3 hits while ignoring almost all attempts to stop her, and there is a certain inevitability about her that she WILL get to this point at the 30-45 minute mark no matter how hard you "shut her down". I guess this is one of those cases where I greatly preferred DOTA's loss of gold on death- you really can't stop a late game champion from eventually getting strong in LoL. Unless you win before late game, she will get strong simply from the normal gold/5 and gold/5 items and the few last hits she can get even while you deny and gank her as much as possible. It's not just irelia, but she seems to be the strongest in the "lategame strong" catagory. Jax is up there too- I've seen dozens of games where some terrible Jax goes 0-4 early game, but ends up destroying the other team 1vs3 later on just because of the inevitable late game strength the champion has.

As far as your second point, that is it exactly. She builds pure tank except maybe a triforce and/or some lifesteal weapon, and she is still strong enough to kill carries in a couple of hits. Bladesurge, stun/slow, a couple auto-attacks and the carry is dead. I've never really seen any champion deal with a late game irelia alone, usually the only way to win those games are to catch her alone and gank her with 3+ champions and pray you can kill her.

I think you have her abilities confused some- bladesurge isn't a stun or slow, only a gap closer, but it's so strong because it's base cooldown is only 6 seconds ( it's around 4 seconds for a real lategame irelia with some cooldown reduction) and in addition to closing the gap it's dealing some 400-500 damage each cast, and it's cooldown resets on minion kills. It can be used to gap close almost at will when you are chasing down a lane since each cast will kill the minion targeted. Her passive stacks with tenacity, meaning you can barely CC her if you try to gank her with more than 1 champion.

I guess I should just start playing her, that seems to be the best way to see a champion get "fixed".

It's really the anti CC heroes that are hard to stop late game. Irelia, Singed, Yi, Gangplank, and Tryndamere are all late game heroes that mostly ignore everything thrown at them late game if they are built right. They can get in and get 2 or 3 kills before having to get out even if the rest of their team is doing nothing.

I have been doing this with both Yi and Singed. Yi and GP take a few more items before they are at the same level of ignoring the other team in team fights, but they get there eventually.