League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I've been banning Talon lately. 750 range on rake and 700 range on his gap closer + silence = dead Cassiopia or Karthus and that's simply no fun. He's a much much better version of Pantheon in my mind, a burst AD champ but with better tools (more range and an Ult that gets him out of trouble).

1s Stun + Damage + gap closer in one skill >>>> 1s Silence + Gap Closer + No damage + 3 second damage amplification for Talon attacks only

Rake is nice for the long range AoE cone and Slow. No doubt about that. It's better than Spear Shot. However Spear Shot will do more damage to a single target than Rake will. More if the target is less than 15% health as well.

Panth also has an AoE cone attack but it's small. Does more damage though in that range than Rake does.

Panth's passive is infinitely better than Talon's. Also Panth's passive after getting 1 point in E to have 100% crit rate on targets less than 15% health is >>> than talons 10% damage increase on auto attacks against only disabled targets. Which means Panth has two passives and either of them are infinitely better than Talon's single passive.

Talon's Q has a lot left to be desired in my book. Dot's are too easily countered if they don't have an anti heal component to them. Which forces Talon to take ignite to make the most use out of his Q. Otherwise a health potion is just going to save the target if they get away.


As for ults, both are good for different reasons. Both really sort of lack damage to a degree. Panth's because people can get out of the way of the skyfall and negate the damage. Talon because people can do the same thing on the second application of the blades. Both ults can be used to get the champ to safety, but neither of them are foolproof in that regard. Panth's is better used for initiation and Talons is not. Panth's ult slows the targets and talon's give him speed. It's a toss up there which is better in that regard. Panth's ult has the potential to do far greater damage than Talons if he lands directly on targets with them at the center. However, Panth's ult scales with AP while Talon's scales with AD. Since all of Talon's abilities are AD, it allows him to stack it for greater effect compared to Panth's that can't really get their Ult's damage up higher without gimping the other abilities. The one major advantage Talon has over Panth with ults is the CD. 2 minutes for Panth versus 40 seconds for Talon. This is the main reason I only prefer Talon's ult to Panth's. That difference in base CD's is huge.


Do to the nature of Talon's E's damage amplification, it forces Talon to bust out all his moves at once and as fast as possible to take full potential of his best damage combo. But any CC or escape ability by the target nulls that real quick which will leave Talon sucking it.

Panth on the other hand doesn't have that problem.






To me Panth is the better hero overall. Talon is fun to play and is a better lane harasser in bottom lane going 2v2 with his Rake. He also farms better late game because of his Rake. Talon's ult is only better, in my rational, from the much lower cooldown. If the two ults were the same base cooldown then it would be harder to decide which is better. Talon's passive is just utter crap in most people's view and Riot stated they are looking to change it already because even they know it's subpar. Perhaps once they modify his passive he'll be the overall better champ in my book compared to Panth. Until then I feel Panth is better for sure.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I think I've finally decided I'm done with this game. I just don't have fun in it anymore. Way too many trolls. Way too many games where you are at the mercy of 4 other people. After 4 games in a row of 4 ppl surrendering because of at least 1 troll I've had enough. The "good" feeling of the occasional win no longer trumps the constant annoyance. Time to move on to something else.

The above is why I could care less about the brackets and the "top tier" players. Those people tend to have the same teams. They do not have to worry about the BS that the majority have to deal with. It is in no way a true test of skill. If someone could solo queue their way to top and stay there, they would be the ones that deserve props. (And none of that duo queuing).
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
I think I've finally decided I'm done with this game. I just don't have fun in it anymore. Way too many trolls. Way too many games where you are at the mercy of 4 other people. After 4 games in a row of 4 ppl surrendering because of at least 1 troll I've had enough. The "good" feeling of the occasional win no longer trumps the constant annoyance. Time to move on to something else.

The above is why I could care less about the brackets and the "top tier" players. Those people tend to have the same teams. They do not have to worry about the BS that the majority have to deal with. It is in no way a true test of skill. If someone could solo queue their way to top and stay there, they would be the ones that deserve props. (And none of that duo queuing).

That's a shame, but if it's not fun it's not worth playing. I'm actually getting close to that point myself but I've been here two other times and a week or two weeks off and I know I'll be ready to roll again. I do think you underestimate the skill of the top players. 5 of us queued up yesterday for a normal draft game and I thought we had decent teams, but when the loading screen came up their jungler was Stonewall008 and their Annie was Messiah. We had what I thought was a decent start (first blood) and held on long enough to get first dragon but it went very sour around 15 minutes and we were soon down 17-5 in kills and just got hammered.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
(lots of unquoted material to save space)
To me Panth is the better hero overall. Talon is fun to play and is a better lane harasser in bottom lane going 2v2 with his Rake. He also farms better late game because of his Rake. Talon's ult is only better, in my rational, from the much lower cooldown. If the two ults were the same base cooldown then it would be harder to decide which is better. Talon's passive is just utter crap in most people's view and Riot stated they are looking to change it already because even they know it's subpar. Perhaps once they modify his passive he'll be the overall better champ in my book compared to Panth. Until then I feel Panth is better for sure.


The one thing you're still not considering is range. Rake has a 750 range and can hit twice. A pantheon that gets in 600 range of spear (great 1.4 AD scaling btw) is quite susceptible to any number of initiations/pokes.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/lb472/iem_ny_game_results_recap/Look at the pantheon bans/picks, then look at the Talon bans/picks.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
That's a shame, but if it's not fun it's not worth playing. I'm actually getting close to that point myself but I've been here two other times and a week or two weeks off and I know I'll be ready to roll again. I do think you underestimate the skill of the top players. 5 of us queued up yesterday for a normal draft game and I thought we had decent teams, but when the loading screen came up their jungler was Stonewall008 and their Annie was Messiah. We had what I thought was a decent start (first blood) and held on long enough to get first dragon but it went very sour around 15 minutes and we were soon down 17-5 in kills and just got hammered.

Yeah, that was a rough game. Our bottom lane pair got hammered pretty hard was the main problem and fed Corki. Stonewall playing jungle Jarvan punished them anytime they overextended even a little bit since they barely warded.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
The one thing you're still not considering is range. Rake has a 750 range and can hit twice. A pantheon that gets in 600 range of spear (great 1.4 AD scaling btw) is quite susceptible to any number of initiations/pokes.

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/lb472/iem_ny_game_results_recap/Look at the pantheon bans/picks, then look at the Talon bans/picks.

Yep, I said they were both good and that rake was better if looking at those two skills. However, panth can still "poke" with his spear due to his passive regardless of the range. It can also do way more damage than rake to a single target. Rake though is overall a much better skills because it does hit twice, slows, has great range, a wide cone, and still does damn decent damage.

However, when in a solo lane 1v1, the advantages Rake has over Spear Shot become less. Sometimes raking the entire minion wave and forcing it to push because you wanted to harass is not such a good idea. Where a good single hard hitting poke like what Spear Shot can deliver is better. There's nuances to each. Spear Shot is also a fire and forget. It has no aiming component. Rake can be dodge and has to be aimed.

Again they are both good for various reasons and scenarios
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
So I was thinking of buying karthus for a while now and since his price got reduced it seemed like a no brainer. He's so ridiculous in dominion and bot stomps (haven't tried him in SR yet trying to get used to him first).
 

sash1

Diamond Member
Jul 20, 2001
8,896
1
0
patch preview up. of note, some significant buffs to skarner. be interesting to see if this takes him out of the dumpster and makes him any bit viable.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,156
11,025
136
patch preview up. of note, some significant buffs to skarner. be interesting to see if this takes him out of the dumpster and makes him any bit viable.


it'll take a friggin miracle ;)

edit: glad to see the spell vamp made unique on gunblade. it's unique on revolver to avoid stacking, so why not on gunblade as well?

it made killing a reasonably built akali damn near impossible without an entire team.
 
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crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
4 solo ranked games over the weekend as Kog'Maw. Every game I performed the same: 12-15 kills, 3-5 deaths, 12-15 assists. Record was 2-2. Funnily enough, the two losses were Friday night and the two wins were Saturday morning.

I'm gonna get a set of crit damage marks + quints for +33% crit damage. Doing nearly 300% AD damage two out of three auto attacks with 750 range on 250+ AD will be just nasty. Oh and then there's the 6% of max HP on top of that too. I'll have to build a Last Whisper after the first PD to get some ArPen back.
 

LurkerPrime

Senior member
Aug 11, 2010
962
0
71
Hey Humble, I bought xin the other day to try and use him as a viable jungler. I know you're an avid xin player (or at least used to be), any tips you can give a newbie xin in the jungle. Build order, routes, runes, skill order etc... would all be helpful.

I've done the jungle starting at small golems with a vamp scepter, and I can make it with no problems, but it doesn't leave me with enough health to gank afterward. Does 5 pots and armor work better?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Hey Humble, I bought xin the other day to try and use him as a viable jungler. I know you're an avid xin player (or at least used to be), any tips you can give a newbie xin in the jungle. Build order, routes, runes, skill order etc... would all be helpful.

I've done the jungle starting at small golems with a vamp scepter, and I can make it with no problems, but it doesn't leave me with enough health to gank afterward. Does 5 pots and armor work better?

Xin is versatile in what he can do as a jungler.

Personally I like to start blue with Xin and make my way out to red and then gank at 4. However you need a good leash at blue golem to do this. If you have some help, they leash and beat on blue golem until it is half health. Then they leave. Soon as they leave you smite and knock it up if need be to finish it. If done right, you should be damn near full health without using a potion. With help at blue I start with cloth armor and 5 pots.

If you don't get any help it can still be done but slows down your mid game doing this if you don't get the kill for the gank. You can start with a green elixir and pots. With just those (and some luck) you can usually clear the jungle with enough health and the green elixir still going to get a good gank on in a lane. Again you MUST get the kill. The assist here will hurt as it doesn't provide the gold lost when the elixir is gone. It's a bit more of a gamble, but it works.

The safer, but somewhat slower way is this.

Cloth + 5 pots.

Start mini's -> wraiths -> wolves -> blue

Recall to base. Go for red and then gank.


Ganking it only going to happen though if your lanes don't fail before then. Which happens all to often. Or they are way too pushed up. However, sometimes even if they are pushed up, that lane is now a target for the opposite team's jungler to try to gank. So if you are nearby you can help avert catastrophe and possibly get a kill or two in.

As a Xin jungler though, he's the only one I typically don't go for Wriggles, but it certainly is still a good choice. I prefer Madreds Bloodazor on Xin since he makes better use out of attack speed in my opinion then pure AD + Armor pen.

Speaking of which, I use ASPD quints and reds with Xin. Armor yellows, and MR per level blues.


Bloodrazor + Wit's End is usually all you need to wreak havoc and stay alive as xin somewhat as Xin. You get armor, MR, aspd, and life gain. Plus you drain % of their health fast with your high ASPD if you pop Warcry.

After that I play it by ear on what items to get next. If I need more survivability I go for atmogs combo. If I'm dealing with a jax I might get a sword of divine. If my team has low CC and I find enemies getting away I'll go for frozen mallet. If I see them stacking MR then I'll grab malady. It's pretty easy to hitthe 2.5 ASPD cap on xin with that build. Bloodthirsters or starks are also viable. Try not to go over 1.9 bsae ASPD with items. When you pop Warcry you'll go over the 2.5 ASPD cap and just be stuck there wasting potential.

buy longsword and 1 or 2 more pots (usually only one unless you were slow).

Mini-
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Preview of the Halloween skins: Ghost Nocturne, Witch Nidalee, Incognito Blitzcrank, and Frankenstein Annie.

http://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/league-legends/1489873-halloween-skins.html

The Suprise Party Fiddlesticks at the end isn't real...yet. People have been asking for it for awhile now. So instead of Crowstorm we all know and hate, he jumps out and you have confetti and streams (instead of crows) and party noise-makers and kazoos (instead of cawing). So damn funny to picture.
 

Snock514

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2009
1,071
2
81
I hate teammates..
WhatdidIdowrong.jpg
 

Ultralight

Senior member
Jul 11, 2004
990
1
76
Very, very interesting build there for Caitlyn. Impressive even if you did loose. Do you find for your gameplay with her to be the best for you or do you have other combinations that you find work just as well? I'm going to have to remember this one. :)
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Very, very interesting build there for Caitlyn. Impressive even if you did loose. Do you find for your gameplay with her to be the best for you or do you have other combinations that you find work just as well? I'm going to have to remember this one. :)

Horrible build in my opinion. IE passive doesn't stack. 3 PD's puts her way over cap ASPD. Way of max crit chance. Basically wasting potential that could have been done better with other items.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Horrible build in my opinion. IE passive doesn't stack. 3 PD's puts her way over cap ASPD. Way of max crit chance. Basically wasting potential that could have been done better with other items.

nah all he needed was 2 more IE and he would have carried that crap ass team to victory.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
nah all he needed was 2 more IE and he would have carried that crap ass team to victory.

It only would have worked because the other team was crap.

What happened to getting some form of survivability on carries? If someone looks at you, you're going to die.
 

Firsttime

Platinum Member
Mar 31, 2005
2,517
0
71
Been trying to learn some other solo tops with the nerfs and potentially more nerfs to Lee Sin. I've been having the most fun with Renekton. Lots of power in lane, pretty decent team fights as well, excels at diving squishies. I'm finally on a stable internet connection so I may start playing more ranked. In my previous situation I would be fine most of the game, but would get random ping spikes to 2000k+ for 5-30 seconds. My new connection is much more stable. So that makes me happy.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
I'm taking a break from this game. I got out of my placement games with a 1480 rating and started losing 10 elo at a time while people bitched at me for being 0/x/3x as a support Alistar.... I just can't carry someone that bad.... I let the stupid people get under my skin and it really ruined my day.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Patch notes:

Code:
Corki
Gatling Gun
Now has a base damage of 20/32/44/56/68 per second
Duration has been adjusted to 4 seconds at all levels
Scales with 0.4 bonus Attack Damage ratio per second, from 0.4 total Attack Damage ratio every second

Gangplank
Raise Morale
Active movement speed reduced to 8/11/14/17/20 from 10/14/18/22/26
Active attack damage reduced to 12/19/26/33/40 from 14/22/30/38/46

Kog'Maw
Bio-Arcane Barrage duration reduced to 8 seconds from 10

Orianna
Basic attack range increased to 525 from 500

Riven
Broken Wings
Now counts as an attack command when you use it to lock-onto a target.
Slightly extended duration of collision ignoring with minions after using this ability

Shaco
Health per level increased to 84 from 80
Base Health increased to 525 from 501
Base Mana increased to 270 from 250

Skarner
Attack Speed per level increased to 2.1% from 1.44%
Energize will no longer activate when attacking Towers.
Crystal Slash Mana cost decreased to 15 at all ranks from 22/24/26/28/30
Fracture will now heal Skarner if Fracture kills its target.
Impale duration increased to 1.75 from 1.5 seconds

Talon
Base health regeneration reduced to 7.25 per 5 seconds from 9.5
Base mana regeneration reduced to 6.75 per 5 seconds from 10

Dominion
Ambient experience gain has been lowered by 10%
Lowered the point where Nexus Health will only be affected by holding capture points (and not by Champion Kills or Neutralizes) to 100 Nexus Health from 125 Nexus Health
Health Pack pickups will now grant 20% more Mana
Personal Scoring has been adjusted to more evenly reward defensive play:
Minion Kill reward increased to 2 points from 1
Channel Interrupt reward increased to 5 from 2
Martyr (dying on point) now gives an additional 10 points over its previous bonus
Point defense bonus is granted more regularly
There is now a score bonus associated with getting a Champion kill or assist while being on or near a point.

Items
Tear of the Goddess, Archangel's Staff, and Manamune now display their current bonus mana again
Hextech Gunblade
Attack Damage reduced to 40 from 60
Ability Power reduced to 70 from 75
Life Steal reduced to 15% from 20%
Spell Vamp reduced to 20% from 25% and is now UNIQUE
 

Snock514

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2009
1,071
2
81
I'm taking a break from this game. I got out of my placement games with a 1480 rating and started losing 10 elo at a time while people bitched at me for being 0/x/3x as a support Alistar.... I just can't carry someone that bad.... I let the stupid people get under my skin and it really ruined my day.
It sucks that you have to enjoy the game differently when you play with pugs, makes for incredibly aggravating afternoons.
 

Snock514

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2009
1,071
2
81
Horrible build in my opinion. IE passive doesn't stack. 3 PD's puts her way over cap ASPD. Way of max crit chance. Basically wasting potential that could have been done better with other items.

I had max crit, and was moving as, if not faster with the PD's move speed bonus with 2.1 or so aspd. I like more attack speed on Caitlyn for 1.3k headshot procs every <4 seconds, nobody survived a headshot proc. Only one other guy on my team had anywhere near a positive score. I was carrying more than my weight on that team.
EDIT: I also didn't build these items from the start. I got 2-3 doran's blades, zerk boots, IE, Bloodthirster, PD then from there on depends on team composition and how fights are turning out. Maybe BV or GA. We had a Shen tank in that game so I wanted to build completely glass cannon toward the end. When he landed a taunt, the bodies hit the floor.

Graves looks really fun, maybe some damage competition with Kog'Maw :)?
 
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