Except for Taiwan, I don't know if they like the idea of TSMC moving production to other parts of the world. :/I don't care where they build, so long as its not communist or dictator ruled. Diversification will give EVERYONE more security and capacity.
It's funny, because Intel is already receiving subsidies from the EU. What kind of a threat is that?Just posting an update on the hold up
It will earn money for the RoC and reduce any country's incentive to attack their island. What's not to like?Except for Taiwan, I don't know if they like the idea of TSMC moving production to other parts of the world. :/
I think they are still owned by the UAE.It's funny, because Intel is already receiving subsidies from the EU. What kind of a threat is that?
Given Intel's process struggles, it's lamentable that anyone feels compelled to subsidize them. Why aren't foundries like Globalfoundries being considered? If all governments care about is automotive and military applications, FDX nodes should fit the bill in the majority of cases. And at least GF is (comparatively) honest about what they can and can't accomplish with their fab tech.
They are considered, though...Why aren't foundries like Globalfoundries being considered?
Some of the military and automotive things will be covered by FDX and any bulk 14nm or older. But not everything.Given Intel's process struggles, it's lamentable that anyone feels compelled to subsidize them. Why aren't foundries like Globalfoundries being considered? If all governments care about is automotive and military applications, FDX nodes should fit the bill in the majority of cases. And at least GF is (comparatively) honest about what they can and can't accomplish with their fab tech.
Mubadala specifically. Though GF has (and has long had) foundries in the United States and Germany (and Singapore). They have no foundries in China. Intel, on the other hand . . .I think they are still owned by the UAE.
That ignores the practical reality that Intel is presenting itself as a leading-edge foundry while proving that it is no longer a leading-edge foundry.Likewise what is the "boundaries" of profane vs excellent use of national security is up for debate. It is what it is. Some people see this as perversity others do not, and no amount of shaming by one group is going to change the minds of the other group for they see each other as too separate that they do not care and shaming does not work.
Fake it to you make it?That ignore the practical reality that Intel is presenting itself as a leading-edge foundry while proving that it is no longer a leading-edge foundry.
The military* insists on multiple suppliers as a matter of normalcy. TSMC has US fabs in development, like Intel is number #2 with leading edge. *shrug*That ignore the practical reality that Intel is presenting itself as a leading-edge foundry while proving that it is no longer a leading-edge foundry.
Leading edge seems to refer to multi-mask DUV and single mask EUV, and more generally the pursuit of bleeding edge design. Intel isn’t claiming that they have the leading process.That ignore the practical reality that Intel is presenting itself as a leading-edge foundry while proving that it is no longer a leading-edge foundry.
No just claiming they will in very short order lolLeading edge seems to refer to multi-mask DUV and single mask EUV, and more generally the pursuit of bleeding edge design. Intel isn’t claiming that they have the leading process.
The US fabs, like all TSMC fabs outside of Taiwan, are not leading edge. This is an N5 fab scheduled to begin mass production in 2024 (assuming the pandemic and CHIPS Act delays haven't pushed that back) when N3E will be in mass production in Taiwan and N2 will be around the corner.The military* insists on multiple suppliers as a matter of normalcy. TSMC has US fabs in development, like Intel is number #2 with leading edge. *shrug*
All the more reason for the gub'ment to cut in Globalfoundries.The military* insists on multiple suppliers as a matter of normalcy.
I would argue that Samsung is pulling ahead of them. 3GAE isn't all that great, and the yields may currently be bad, but at least it exists. It certainly seems to be further along than Intel 4. By the time 3GAP enters risk production, Samsung will likely have the lead.Intel is number #2 with leading edge. *shrug*
Sure seems like they are. All that noise about Intel 4, 3, and 20a . . .Intel isn’t claiming that they have the leading process.
They’re claiming that they’ll hit “node supremacy” by 2025 (previously 2024-2025), with 18A, but aren’t saying they’re there yet.All the more reason for the gub'ment to cut in Globalfoundries.
I would argue that Samsung is pulling ahead of them. 3GAE isn't all that great, and the yields may currently be bad, but at least it exists. It certainly seems to be further along than Intel 4. By the time 3GAP enters risk production, Samsung will likely have the lead.
Sure seems like they are. All that noise about Intel 4, 3, and 20a . . .
agreedAll the more reason for the gub'ment to cut in Globalfoundries.
Unless they are interested in doing sub-7nm process again, Intel is pretty much the only US company with a chance to compete against TSMC and Samsung.All the more reason for the gub'ment to cut in Globalfoundries.
Good point. One would think, with GF hack g s plant in the Senate Majority Leader’s state, that GF would be on the list of companies to receive funds. I do think that much of the funding is for new plants, equipment and the on-shoring of support businesses for a more robust supply chain. Guess I need to find the bullet points again.Mubadala specifically. Though GF has (and has long had) foundries in the United States and Germany (and Singapore). They have no foundries in China. Intel, on the other hand . . .
32/28:... but has GloFo been much better? They've been widely panned for missed promised pretty much since they were spun off (32nm was supposed to hit what? 6GHz?), had to license 14nm from Samsung to get a working FinFET node, and then completely dropped their attempts at 7nm. Perhaps they do deserve a part of the pie, but they don't have a terribly strong argument for "deserving" it either.
See below.Unless they are interested in doing sub-7nm process again, Intel is pretty much the only US company with a chance to compete against TSMC and Samsung.
Agreed on the automotive/military angle. GF doesn't have to be leading edge. 12FDX can and will last for a long time, and if GF actually gets subsidies, they can slowly piece together new nodes over time, either through cross-licensing with Samsung or IBM or through novel R&D. Or they can scrape up expired patents.GlobalFoundries is interesting from the point of subsidies. On one hand, their technology stack, despite being unsuited for modern application processors, seems like a good match for the automotive market and others hit most strongly by the chip shortage. But on the other hand, they have distinctly lower growth prospects, and can't advertise "job creation" as strongly as Intel can. Given how short political memory is, that's probably going to increase in relative importance for the sake of funding. Especially with already promised developments.
Not really. But their failures and successes are known quantities, and they've stabilized in a foundry role that Intel still hasn't managed despite their much-ballyhooed Foundry 2.0 model. Today, with GF, you know exactly what you're going to get: 12nm+, 22FDX, and uh I guess 12FDX, though I don't know if they're shipping any 12FDX wafers yet (honestly not paying much attention to that rn). With Intel strutting around acting like they're going to be the premier foundry by 2025, you don't really know what you're going to get out of them if you subsidize them. Are you going to get 18a on schedule, or will you just get a lot of 10nm? Or 14nm and 22ffl? It's hard to tell.Also, Intel's clearly failed hard over the last decade... but has GloFo been much better?
Except it is more than just having those chips being developed on US soil, it is about having latest “leading edge” chips fabricated in US. Intel is pretty much the only US company capable of doing that.f all the gub'ment really cares about is automotive, military, and commodity chips (like stuff that goes into monitors or whatever) then GF is a known quantity that can get the job done, presumably for less than $10 billion. Intel is busy funneling a lot of money into R&D as well as buying a ton of wafers from TSMC.
Samsung America is technically a US company, even if it is a subsidiary of the Korean business.Except it is more than just having those chips being developed on US soil, it is about having latest “leading edge” chips fabricated in US. Intel is pretty much the only US company capable of doing that.
12FDX in its first iteration was shipping to top-tier customers in late 2017 throughout 2018.though I don't know if they're shipping any 12FDX wafers yet (honestly not paying much attention to that rn).
Heh! Not really. GF certainly can't, but Intel is really falling behind as well.Intel is pretty much the only US company capable of doing that.
Capacities aside, Intel is the only other company out there doing sub 7nm besides TSMC and Samsung.Heh! Not really. GF certainly can't, but Intel is really falling behind as well.