It sounds like Meteor Lake is no longer a “limited release” like some here thought. It will launch in H2 2023 as the 14900k while Arrow Lake will launch as the 15900k in H2 of 2024. At least that is my interpretation.
Culture Clash at TSMC's Arizona Fab - EE Times Asia
Will management and workers find a middle ground as the chip giant's newest U.S. fab ramps production?
www.eetasia.com
So their secret to success is more PhDs and longer working hours?
DrMrLordX
Lifer
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They got away with Cannonlake, so don't be so quick to assume that they don't have some plausible deniability to back up their claims.
IntelUser2000
Elite Member
- Oct 14, 2003
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That makes it sound pretty terrible working for them. That's a BAD thing because they are saying we need to trade people's lives for corporate profit. Great, $100K+ spent on education but you end up being a lowly manager. Sounds great for humanity.Culture Clash at TSMC's Arizona Fab - EE Times Asia
Will management and workers find a middle ground as the chip giant's newest U.S. fab ramps production?
So their secret to success is more PhDs and longer working hours?
Also what's that about not needing PHDs but making it sound it was the PHDs that made the company successful.
DrMrLordX
Lifer
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If you get pay commensurate with your abilities doing a menial job, where is the problem?Great, $100K+ spent on education but you end up being a lowly manager. Sounds great for humanity.
IntelUser2000
Elite Member
- Oct 14, 2003
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That's not what the article seems to suggest. That they could be colonels but are rather foot soldiers? And won't fly with the way US culture works?
What is "US" culture in this case? Because exploiting employees by underpaying is pretty much worldwide. That TSMC's culture is like a well paid foot soldier?
Another thing that doesn't make sense is if your education is allowing something that less educated employees can't do, then you can't call it a menial job, since you are actually providing value to work.
You know how that sounds like right? Doesn't need it but needs it?
The reason "foot soldiers" and "menial employees" don't get paid a lot is because they don't provide much in terms of thinking. If they did, then the perception would be different. The article is making it confusing if it indeed is the case as you suggest.
DrMrLordX
Lifer
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It's not entirely clear what value the company derives from overqualified employees minding the daily operation of machines. Might be occasional boosts in productivity due to occasional prevention of edge-case failures. Hard to say.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
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Saylick
Platinum Member
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I guess Samsung took the word "fab" a little too liberally.
Big yikes, though. We all knew Samsung didn't have the best processes in the world, but this is just bad. Suffice to say, confidence in their 3GAE process must take a blow as well.
- Mar 3, 2017
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I am not sure how credible the report is, but if true, the fact that they willing to do such a thing could lead to something good coming out of it.
Frankly it would be weird that an investment of hundreds of billions of dollars over a few years would not have routine audits.
It is just fraud waiting to happen if no such things are done regularly.
To me sounds like the usual audit of large investments at major corporations, I have seen many of those in our organization too.
Normally executives gets asked lots of questions and papers/the books/project report cards etc would need to be in order, and we do trial runs of the auditing process before the external auditor comes to check us.
The top management or the board would usually specify additional focus of the audit as well if not already part of the project auditing and accounting perimeter.
And we also usually have external consulting firms involved in the process.
moinmoin
Diamond Member
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If the report is indeed factual the audit should indeed lead to good improvements.
I can imagine this happening since for Samsung's foundries compute dies is just a secondary business, with memory still being the main business by some distance. And the latter is easier and faster to yield successfully on new nodes while the former is mostly "only" a prestige race against TSMC and Intel. But yeah, everybody should be happy for the money working more efficiently as a result of this.
One only needs to google 'Samsung executives jail' to see that the company isn't run by the most honest bunch, with a half dozen or so top executives including the CEO having served time in jail recently (or still behind bars in some cases)
So now AMD is in trouble?
Also,
Easy die-shrinks!
DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
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Probably not. But if you look at some of their 5LPE products - notably the Snapdragon 888 and Exynos 2100 - it might provide some clues as to how those SoCs wound up being as underwhelming as they were.
Dunno about 4LPE yet but we'll see.
Also AMD hasn't announced any designs for N3 yet, not sure why people are talking about them? Intel is investing billions to get early wafers of N3, though.
I'm pretty sure Ampere is one of the fastest growing nvidia generations on steam's hardware survey in recent history, despite everyone complaining about stock. If there were low yields they must have improved it very quickly.
I doubt it, Sammy's 8nm is just a refined 10nm process so it would have made news long before now if it was a yield trainwreck.
Of course though, nVidia are well known for comparatively huge dies, so lower yields on more advanced processes are to be expected - it's one of the reasons that smaller chiplets are the only sane way forward on future fab nodes.
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/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/SOBZSM5ZJNMQVNYYJKHNWXFA4Y.jpg)
Intel picks Magdeburg in Germany for new European chip factory
Intel INTC.O has chosen the east German city of Magdeburg as the site for a new multibillion-euro European chip factory and will make the decision public on March 4, a person familiar with matter told Reuters.
www.reuters.com
(TSMC also rumored to follow suit with a fab in EU but nothing concrete so far.)
Within the next 3 years: 100B+ USD TSMC, 100B+ USD Samsung, 40B+ Intel. Some estimates put TSMC's investment from 2022 - 2024 to be in 120B+ USD range with a staggering official commitment of 44B USD in 2022 alone.
From history, the record was held by Samsung with 93B USD over 2017-2020 years and they have been the top spender from 2004 to 2021 barring one year in 2009.
2022 could go to TSMC with Samsung a close second.
Samsung's investments comprises of the memory business as well, which decreases their overall available capital expenditure on logic but nevertheless they have shown they can sustain their investment over two decades and it also means they can sustain R&D capital expenditure even with years of trailing behind TSMC.
With lots of fabs being planned I really hope there really is some consistent demand otherwise these investments would be really painful to sustain and not sure if these giants can recover their investments.
But nevertheless it is relieving to see more fabs planned outside of SK and Taiwan, which is a bit unnerving since we are always one disaster away from chip meltdown.
Given that even TSMC is now (supposedly) having problems advancing nodes, I wonder who'll be the first to have CNFETS on their roadmap? That appears to be the prime candidate for a silicon alternative given their extreme perf/power metrics. And with demos of them being built on industry standard manufacturing practices and turing complete chips built out of them afaik the biggest blocker is just producing enough high quality CNTs for low enough cost.
Versus paying $50 billion (or thereabouts) per 1.5nm fab even "risky" alternatives have to seem a better bet at some point in the not too distant future.
Versus paying $50 billion (or thereabouts) per 1.5nm fab even "risky" alternatives have to seem a better bet at some point in the not too distant future.
I mean, that doesn't guarantee there won't be an oversupply. But then an oversupply is good for us, yay low prices!
Ajay
Lifer
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Hmm, Magdeburg is a pretty small city (~ 1/4M pop). Guess Intel will be importing a lot of talent from greater Germany.Intel to build new fab in eastern Germany. Official announcements to come soon I guessIntel picks Magdeburg in Germany for new European chip factory
Intel INTC.O has chosen the east German city of Magdeburg as the site for a new multibillion-euro European chip factory and will make the decision public on March 4, a person familiar with matter told Reuters.
(TSMC also rumored to follow suit with a fab in EU but nothing concrete so far.)
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