Lead, Don't Divide - john kerry on Vietnam in politics

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
If you are trying to make a point about Bush and cocaine via obsure conspiracy anti-bush websites - sure. That isn't the case here. Are you really that obtuse to not see kerry is campaigning on Vietnam? How many articles(even on his site even) do I need to post for you to understand that?

If you refuse to see that kerry is campaigning as the Vietnam Hero - then I'm going to have to ignore you. You can't honestly say he isn't running on it - can you?

CkG

Stop Kerry bashing, Komrade Uber Troll! Bush-bashing only! None of this is fair game, as it happened long ago..people change [except Bush]

Ooops - sorry, I forgot posting or thinking things other than things that Bash-Bush aren't allowed. Thanks for putting me back in line.

:music:
Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
Where have you been? It's alright we know where you've been.
You've been in the pipeline, filling in time, provided with toys and
'Scouting for Boys'.
You bought a guitar to punish your ma,
And you didn't like school, and you know you're nobody's fool,
So welcome to the machine.
:music:

CkG

 

[Tom]

"If you refuse to see that kerry is campaigning as the Vietnam Hero - then I'm going to have to ignore you. You can't honestly say he isn't running on it - can you?"


The issue that you never respond to, is that there is a difference between the Vietnam war and the "divide" that existed or perhaps still exists over the war itself, and the appropriateness of a politician using his military record as a political attribute, which as far as I now is not controversial in the slightest.

I think the reality is you, and other opponents of Kerry, are trying to deny Kerry whatever political advantage accrues to any war veteran, by claiming that he should not be allowed that benefit because the war happened to be the Vietnam war.

And even more absurd about your positiion, is in the context of the current election, Bush did not object to the war, there is no reason for their to be any "divisiveness" over the issue as there could have been between Clinton and Kerry in the Democratic primaries of 1991.

So essentially it seems that some clever political strategists think they can deny Kerry's status as a decorated veteran, and at the same time excuse any potential questioning of Bush's conduct as a Guardsman, by hiding behind the fiction that there is some horrible Vietnam divisiveness issue that we dare not ever mention.

Which is all a bunch of bull. Kerry's and/or Bush's military service records have nothing to do with any divisive Vietnam war issues.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"If you refuse to see that kerry is campaigning as the Vietnam Hero - then I'm going to have to ignore you. You can't honestly say he isn't running on it - can you?"


The issue that you never respond to, is that there is a difference between the Vietnam war and the "divide" that existed or perhaps still exists over the war itself, and the appropriateness of a politician using his military record as a political attribute, which as far as I now is not controversial in the slightest.

I think the reality is you, and other opponents of Kerry, are trying to deny Kerry whatever political advantage accrues to any war veteran, by claiming that he should not be allowed that benefit because the war happened to be the Vietnam war.

And even more absurd about your positiion, is in the context of the current election, Bush did not object to the war, there is no reason for their to be any "divisiveness" over the issue as there could have been between Clinton and Kerry in the Democratic primaries of 1991.

So essentially it seems that some clever political strategists think they can deny Kerry's status as a decorated veteran, and at the same time excuse any potential questioning of Bush's conduct as a Guardsman, by hiding behind the fiction that there is some horrible Vietnam divisiveness issue that we dare not ever mention.

Which is all a bunch of bull. Kerry's and/or Bush's military service records have nothing to do with any divisive Vietnam war issues.

That's fine if kerry was just noting his military record, but he's waving the Vietnam War hero flag. So yes - I have addressed it- you continue to choose to ingnore it.

Keep excusing what he said, trying to spin this onto me, and keep bringing up Bush though... if it helps you sleep at night.

CkG

 

[EXman]

check out this website that has a "Kerry Fonda 2004" bumper sticker with the Vietnamese flag in the middle. http://www.michaelmbates.com/

I guess Fonda would get some votes of the Ultra Ultra leftists.

I wanted to see why all the Vietnam vets were pissed off on the G Gordon Liddy show so I looked up Kerry's interesting stint in the military which includes the admitted killing of a child during one of his free fire missions.
Here's another site that veterans have set up about Kerry

LINK

 

[Tom]

"That's fine if kerry was just noting his military record, but he's waving the Vietnam War hero flag. So yes - I have addressed it- you continue to choose to ingnore it."

No you haven't. You have not addressed at all whether you think there is a difference between the Vietnam war as a political issue and the respect that most Americans feel towards our soldiers no matter what the name of the war the fought in was.

You continue to insist that a Vietnam veteran isn't allowed to use the word "Vietnam", as if the word itself has a mystical power that must not be uttered.

And again, in what context does the issue you raise in the original post take place, if it is your assertion that there is something inappropriate about discussing Pres. Bush ?

 

[MonkeyK]

Back up a step.

Do you think Vietnam should be used as a campaign tool?

 

[MonkeyK]

or the status of a war veteran, which may be a more accurate description of the question at hand.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Back up a step.

Do you think Vietnam should be used as a campaign tool?

No - this isn't about me - this is about what kerry has said and what he is doing.

DPS doesn't seem to see that kerry is waving the Vietnam hero flag instead of merely the flag of his service to America. I think people who look at what he said in the past and what he is doing now conflict inspite of obfuscation attempts.

CkG

 

[MonkeyK]

Sorry, it's always about you. That's why you're posting.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: MonkeyK
or the status of a war veteran, which may be a more accurate description of the question at hand.

If you are asking me, I think it's perfectly acceptable to use one's record and experience, including military service, as a way of presenting oneself as a candidate.


In fact I would say that Bush's military career would have been an advantage to him too, if he was running against someone like Clinton who had no military experience.

But of course things are more complicated than that, like in the case of Senator McCain who is widely seen as a Vietnam hero,(notice my use of the word Vietnam, CkG would say that senator McCain should not be allowed to mention that word..) at some level he was actually hurt politically by suggestions that maybe his temperament was somehow a result of his military career.

btw, I thought that was a bunch of crap, senator McCain's temperament never bothered me, and except for the fact I really liked Al Gore, I would have given a lot of consideration to voting for McCain had he been the Republican candidate.

 

[EXman]

Dead Parrot Sketch Do you realize that Sen. Kerry is a Vietnam Vet and then was an Active Protestor against the war with the VVAW largely funded by Jane Fonda? And that he demonstrated with Hanoi Jane during the war on several occasions. Hasn't history branded Fonda a Traitor? I know the Vietnam vets have. I know do and some think the same of Kerry after he threw his medals at the capital denouncing the U.S. involvement?

Personally once he threw his medals back his service to his country was nullified IMO. I do think the DNC chairman has opened the proverbial "Pandora?s box" starting this recent fight of service records. Kerry is going to have to answer some tough questions about his "activism."

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: EXman
Dead Parrot Sketch Do you realize that Sen. Kerry is a Vietnam Vet and then was an Active Protestor against the war with the VVAW largely funded by Jane Fonda? And that he demonstrated with Hanoi Jane during the war on several occasions. Hasn't history branded Fonda a Traitor I know the Vietnam vets I know do and some think the same of Kerry after he threw his medals at the capital denouncing the U.S. involvement?

Personally once he threw his medals back his service to his country was nullified IMO. I do think the DNC chairman has opened the proverbial "Pandora?s box" starting this recent fight of service records. Kerry is going to have to answer some tough questions about his "activism."

Well you might not be surprised that I'm a big fan of Jane Fonda ! I was around back then and I know that her trip to North Vietnam has been completely misrepresented for several decades by some groups with their own agendas. To the extent it actually was a mistake, she acknowledged that a long time ago and apologized. She certainly is not a traitor, she's been a great leader and example for many people, particularly in the area of fitness. Plus she's damn HOT !

Additionally I happened across an article just today about the Kerry medal throwing incident, first of all it wasn't his idea and he was not in favor of doing so, however he did participate; but again I was around back then and it is really hard to express just how outrageous it was that pres. Nixon caused the war to drag on and on for no real purpose, while at the same time trampling on the civil rights of many Americans and bringing America as close to losing our Constitutional rights as we had since the Civil war. btw, I was glad that in the end Nixon did the right thing and did not defy the Supreme Court, but until he made that decision was the scariest time of my life, personally. I was deeply worried we were going to lose this country.

So anyway it was in that atmosphere that the medal tossing took place. btw, for me anyway a soldier earns his respect by doing his duty. Taking part in a political demonstration after serving that duty wolud not cause me to lose even an iota of that respect, not to mention that I think political protest is a good thing, if it's based on principal.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot SketchSo anyway it was in tha tatmosphere that the medal tossing took place. btw, for me anyway a soldier earns his respect by doing his duty. Taking part in a political demonstration after serving that duty wolud not cause me to lose even an iota of that respect, not to mention that I think political protest is a good thing, if it's based on principal.

Dead on. And I think that this difference of perspective is the whole problem in the understanding Kerry's statements.

 

[SuperTool]

Bush is going around telling everyone how he is a "War President." Well if that's the case he shouldn't be affraid to discuss his war record in its entirety, and not just bits and pieces.
Remember, the GOP painted war amputee Max Cleland as unpatriotic, imagine what they'll try to do to Kerry. So Kerry is absolutely right to tell Bush to bring it on, I'll put my patriotism vs yours and let the people decide.