LCD's and "Da Ghost"...

[chazdraves]

Quick question for all the experts about: nearly 2 years ago now, I bought an Acer AL1916W. This has been my first LCD and a bit of a mixed blessing. I obviously appreciate the quantity of my desk I discovered after the purchase. Realistically, however, I bought it because it seems CRT is dead. Apparently - unless you want an "el cheapo" - you can't buy CRT any more. Anyway, here's my question. Do modern LCD's ghost as badly as my 1916W? I know the box claimed a 4ms or some odd response time, but the reality is that even that is too slow (if it really is accurately measured). I noticed that many of these new NEC monitors are rated at 6ms (you'll note that is slower ).

Would someone please enlighten me?

Many thanks!
- Chaz

 

[BassBomb]

Most LCD's that were claimed at 8ms (which used to be the main response time) were really around 30ms

I had a Samsung 915NII TN Panel at 8ms, it was not very bad at ghosting

My sister has a 20ms TN which looks horrendous

My current NEC 20WMGX2 rated at 6ms is much faster than my 8ms was

 

[chazdraves]

Ah! But is it still noticeable?

- Chaz

 

[BassBomb]

Yup, it is inherit with the LCD technology.... I do not notice it on my 8ms (cept in a certain situation) and when i look for it

I do not notice it in my 6ms unless i really look for it

 

[BernardP]

In fact, the problem is no more the response time of the LCD, but the fact that the "always on" image on a LCD causes persistence of vision in the eyes. Yes the problem is in the eyes and further reducing the response time of the LCD has no effect on persistence of vision.

X-bit Labs has a very interesting article about this

 

[chazdraves]

How very unusual. I can't believe I read the whole thing!

So, how notable is this natural "ghosting". I can very readily note the blur on my present monitor, but I firmly believe that is still the LCD (despite the claimed 4ms timing) - though I could be wrong!

- Chaz

 

[imported_K3N]

usually some manufacturers will rate the response time of their monitor on GTG (gray to gray) instead of the regular typical. Whenever a manufacturer gives the response time in GTG, multiply that by 2.67. So if a manufacturer says their monitor has 6msGTG response, it is actually 16.02ms

 

[gramboh]

I've used CRTs on my home machines up until last week when I bought a 2407WFP Dell ($649 Canadian shipped, couldn't resist). The only issues with gaming I notice are

a) Vsync _MUST_ be on or you notice awful tearing, on my old 19in CRT I left Vsync off in most games where my FPS were lower than the refresh rate. The problem is, with a 60Hz refresh/vsync, it gets chopped in half to 30 which is painful. I wish they used 120Hz.

b) I don't notice any ghosting/trailing, what I do notice is the image blurs during quick motion in FPS games. For example, everything is extremely sharp when I'm walking around maps in say CS:Source of Oblivion, but when I pan 180degrees really quickly, everything blurs whereas I didn't notice this on CRTs.

Overall I am happy with the LCD, it is so much better for desktop use, the black levels are good enough for me and gaming in WS is fun.

 

[imported_K3N]

Originally posted by: gramboh

b) I don't notice any ghosting/trailing, what I do notice is the image blurs during quick motion in FPS games. For example, everything is extremely sharp when I'm walking around maps in say CS:Source of Oblivion, but when I pan 180degrees really quickly, everything blurs whereas I didn't notice this on CRTs.

it's probably because of the 16ms (6ms GTG) response time that monitor has..

 

[chazdraves]

I see.

It's not something that's really concerning in strategy games, but it's something that does bug me in CS:S, Oblivion, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., etc. I would like to think there are some LCD's out there that are actually playable? I experience that same "blur" you mention, but I can usually pick up a bit of ghosting as well. Are there any monitors out there that don't have these "features"?

Thanks, guys!
- Chaz

 

[vhx]

I have a 1916W and I don't have any ghosting. Odd.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: chazdraves
I see.

It's not something that's really concerning in strategy games, but it's something that does bug me in CS:S, Oblivion, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., etc. I would like to think there are some LCD's out there that are actually playable? I experience that same "blur" you mention, but I can usually pick up a bit of ghosting as well. Are there any monitors out there that don't have these "features"?

Thanks, guys!
- Chaz

Get a better monitor, its much better these days

NEC 20WMGX2 is the fastest 8bit panel out there
New Samsung TN's 19" seem to be the fastest current gen LCD's at that size

 

[zylander]

Ive never had an issue with ghosting. Maybe I just dont know what to look for, but as far as I can see, I cant find it. I currently have a Dell 2405fpw and a Hyundai L90D+. Before these I had an old 15" HP LCD from maybe 7+ years ago and I never really had any issues with that either.