LCD problem only I seem to notice ?

[rpglord]

I dont know if I am going crazy or I am in twilght zone or something but I notice something on these new lcd screens when gaming which nobody alse seems to notice or mention on the internet.I mean,I read in lcd reviews about ghosting,color banding,input lad,backlight bleeding and all those issues are discussed in depth,but nobody mentions the issues I see ... weird
I have tested this on 5 diffrent lcd monitors,3 are used from my friends,and 2 new I bought at the stores.Each and every one have this issue.
So let me me describe it.It is best seen for example on fallout 3 when it's night and its clear sky.So I just look at the sky and when I move the mouse,I see this dirt like effect,like monitor is dirty or something.Basically picture is not sharp,its like there is little spots on the monitor,like thin film of some kind of what is best called dirt.I can only see it basically when I move the mouse - its imposible to spot if you are just standing still
Of course I made sure monitors are perfectly clean and there isn't any dirt on them
I see this in other games as well,not just fallout.Basically you have to look and some dark area,but not completely black,and just move the mouse,and it's there.
So of course I hooked up my old trusty 19? crt monitor since I dont remember seeing this crap before when playing on it.And what do you know ? Picture is perfectly clear no dirt like effect or anything
So I guess its just the way this cheap panels are made,they are all crap I guess.I tested samsung,dell,hp,lg
I still would like if anybody can confirm or explain this.I cant belive nobody notice this or talk about it anywhere on the internet

 

[Jeff7181]

I'm pretty sure what you're talking about is the result of a low quality panel that doesn't offer full color depth. Instead, it rapidly switches a pixel between two colors so your eyes see the "average" of the two, which would be the correct color.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Try it on an LCD TV. They tend to use much higher quality panels than typical computer monitors. What LCD monitors did you use anyway? Were they all cheap 17-22" models? Any 24" or larger ones in there?

 

[cusideabelincoln]

What bugs me is the blurring with motion. I've seen it on all LCDs I've used and all LCD TVs. I really wish I could get my hands on a 120hz LCD to see if they have the same problem, but I don't think they do.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

He may be talking about anti-reflective coating on the matte LCDs

If this is the case, he may like a glossy panel.

 

[pinguw]

I'm seeing it too, but no just in Fallout 3, en every FPS game that I played. I have an Asus 22' and is not a bad LCD but I would describe a like a solid shadow not like gosting that make blur. but the strange thing is you can see on games, not in movies right?

 

[rpglord]

Hm,I am pretty sure its not color depth.I see that problem too,and its called color banding.Basically,mostly in dark areas,you can see transition between the colors,its not as smooth as it should be as these cheap TN panels use 6 bit per RGB instead of 8.
I dont think what I am seeing is connected to color banding.
All monitors were cheap 20-22 models.I dont have LCD tv.
I am not sure about coating.That may be it ? Coz it does feel like some kind of thin film or coating.Problem is it is unregular,and thus create the effect of picture which is not clear and sharp.If this is the case,I cant belive all lcd manufacturers fail to implement this coating properly ? And is there anything I can do to fix this problem or atleast lessen it ? Remove the coating or something
And yes I can only see it in games,not movies

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: rpglord
Hm,I am pretty sure its not color depth.I see that problem too,and its called color banding.Basically,mostly in dark areas,you can see transition between the colors,its not as smooth as it should be as these cheap TN panels use 6 bit per RGB instead of 8.
I dont think what I am seeing is connected to color banding.
All monitors were cheap 20-22 models.I dont have LCD tv.
I am not sure about coating.That may be it ? Coz it does feel like some kind of thin film or coating.Problem is it is unregular,and thus create the effect of picture which is not clear and sharp.If this is the case,I cant belive all lcd manufacturers fail to implement this coating properly ? And is there anything I can do to fix this problem or atleast lessen it ? Remove the coating or something
And yes I can only see it in games,not movies

Dithering is not the same as banding. Dithering looks like noise.

Heavy anti-glare coating also looks like noise, but static. If your problem is anti-glare, get a glossy monitor. If your problem is dithering, get an 8-bit panel.

 

[rpglord]

I am not sure if my problem is dithering or anti glare.Any way to confirm this ? Like I said its static problem which looks like dirt / dust.It's not regular meaning it looks like small patches of dirt,dithering I presume should be more evenly spread ?

 

[rpglord]

One more thought,didnt CRTs have anti glare coating too ? I tested this on CRT and problem is not present

 

[kmmatney]

I think it's either a dithering effect (6 bit panel) or just an effect of the black levels on LCDs. LCDs do not have very good black levels, compared to CRTs, so darks areas in games can sometimes look splotchy. I have noticed this effect too, but I can tell you that's it's more noticable on my TN displays, and I hardly see it at all on my Soyo with S-PVA panel.

The Overdrive feature on panels can make this worse, I think. It is real bad on my 28" Hanns-G TN LCD I use for work (but I don't play games on that one). I would like to see a 120Hz LCD to compare it with.

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: rpglord
One more thought,didnt CRTs have anti glare coating too ? I tested this on CRT and problem is not present

CRTs had an anti-glare film. On LCDs it's more like grit, or as you say dust. If you get a sparkly effect as you move your head around that's anti-glare coating.

I actually doubt that you'd even be able to see dithering. Although, it is odd that you only see this effect in games when you look around. You should be able to see the coating at the desktop on a white background. If it's something you only get when the picture is changing quickly that sounds more like a response time effect, but I don't know of any effect that would cause the issue you described. How big are these dirt zones?

 

[rpglord]

Originally posted by: mmnno

Originally posted by: rpglord
One more thought,didnt CRTs have anti glare coating too ? I tested this on CRT and problem is not present

CRTs had an anti-glare film. On LCDs it's more like grit, or as you say dust. If you get a sparkly effect as you move your head around that's anti-glare coating.

I actually doubt that you'd even be able to see dithering. Although, it is odd that you only see this effect in games when you look around. You should be able to see the coating at the desktop on a white background. If it's something you only get when the picture is changing quickly that sounds more like a response time effect, but I don't know of any effect that would cause the issue you described. How big are these dirt zones?

No sparkly effect...I don't see anything on a white background - its just white as it should be.I am sure it's got nothing to do with changing picture,escpecially not quciky-I can move the mouse very slow and I still notice it.Actually,I can notice it even if picture is not moving,it is just that it's much more visible when I move the mouse-otherwise,I can only notice it if I have already moved the mouse and saw where the spots are-they are still there even when I dont move,just much less noticable.
Dirt zones are very small,maybe half of inch or less.But there is a lot of them,there is not even an inch of the screen where there is not atleast some irregularity,so overall effetc is basically like entire screen is just dirty
It does indeed feel like some kind of coating which is not spread properly-it doesnt feel like more techical issue like dithering.Altrough you confused me now since there is no sparkly effect and nothing on white background.
This is very strange Anybody actually have fallout 3 and cheap tn panel ? Its best to actually see it,it's very had to explain You will probably see it when you know what to look for

 

[qbfx]

Originally posted by: mmnno
Dithering is not the same as banding. Dithering looks like noise.

Heavy anti-glare coating also looks like noise, but static. If your problem is anti-glare, get a glossy monitor. If your problem is dithering, get an 8-bit panel.

I think what OP's describing is dithering patterns. I myself can see this on my sammy even when the picture is still on a dark solid color, and it's really irritating when working on photoshop and trying to get the color right for example.

If OP's more sensitive to this, I'd suggest buying a 8-bit panel.

 

[rpglord]

Me again.I am pretty sure what I am describing is not dithering.Because as far as I understand it,dithering is connected to color.So for example lets say I load a game and I see dithering problem in one object in game.I see those spots.When I move the mouse,problem should remain at that same object,same spot which remains the same color ? Right ? But what happens here is that problem moves with the mouse-its like its glued to the screen and has nothing to do with which colors are displayed.These spots are always in exactly same positions on the screen,and that never change.
Because of this,I think this is not dithering.Can anyone please confirm am I right or wrong ? Does what I am saying make any sense ? Because spots are always at same positions on the screen,does that exclude dithering ?

 

[SergeC]

It's an effect from overdrive-TN panels. Try an IPS or PVA/MVA and see if that's better for you.