LCD: Dell 1703FP vs. Viewsonic VP171b

[Auric]

I need a new monitor and am keen on the forthcoming Samsung 173P. But if it does not materialize within a couple weeks I may opt for something else, especially as it will likely cost significantly more than other models from Dell which can be had for $400-450 direct or from eBay. A recent Samsung USA press release stated it was shipping during October and other reports have claimed early October -meaning retail availablility late October, early November. Samsung Deutschland states November availability. Email replies from Samsung have claimed availability and specifications have not been finalized.

DVI, and height and pivot adjustment are 'must haves' and since seperate stands and arms cost too much I want to get one with it included. So I am considering the Dell Ultrasharp 1703FP and Viewsonic VP171b. I am not considering the Planar PX171M equivalent of the latter due to fugliness. I have done dilligent research and even briefly considered the similarly priced 1800FP for what would seem a more comfortable size but with the text problem (crap ClearType even with BGR option), relatively low contrast, ghosting (even if minimal) and lack of adjustable stand, have now ruled it out. Essentially, I want to minimize the compromise coming from a good CRT. I know the VP171b has the Acer-Unipac panel and all that entails and the 1703FP is supplied by both Samsung and LiteOn but wonder who the manufacturer of the panel is, if not Samsung, and what is the most equivalent branded model so I can find some reviews.

Dell claims the 1703FP does not exhibit ghosting (but then again, does likewise for the 1800FP) and if so would seem nice to avoid the dithering issue but what about image quality? Is the slightly greater viewing angle noticeable? Of primary importance is whether it can display resolutions such as 1280x960 without stretching to maintain the correct aspect ratio in games. I know the VP171b will do this through an ATI control panel option. I have read of other monitors that have such options internally as well.

Any info and advice would be much appreciated.

 

[elkinm]

I don't know everything about the 173P but I have been checking out LCDs for a while and nothing came close to being usable. The only screen I have seen that can compare is the Dell 1800FP and 1503FP that I have used. I don't understand how or why but no LCD I have seen regardless of price or manfacturer can even come close to the quality and usibiiliy.

So I have to recommend the Dell. Assuming it is like ones I have seen.

 

[Auric]

Well, the 173P is certainly delayed. Samsung Deutschland now states a December availability and it is still nowhere to be seen at Samsung USA (although as I mentioned in another thread the drivers and manual are available). So I will likely opt for one of the others as soon as Dell has a decent sale.

The primary reason I want an LCD is to reduce eyestrain. The easy pivot is nice too. Otherwise, usability in general is suck compared to CRT. The scaling/stretching issue is absurd. Most LCD's have crap scaling, yet many lack the ability to disable it and stretching. I have found that NVIDIA drivers allow to pad a 4:3 image so that 5:4 LCD's lacking the option do not automatically fill the screen and thereby distort the aspect ratio. While ATI drivers have an option to scale or not, but there are conflicting reports depending on user and driver version whether it works for anything other than a native horizontal resolution -for instance on a 1280x1024 display, 1280x960 can be displayed correctly but 1024x768 will still scale and stretch vertically. It is mind boggling that there is even confusion about it and that so many people are not aware, indeed many seem to blissfully ignorant and set their games to 1280x1024, thus making the game itself create the Distorto-Vision effect.

I am still trying to find out how the 1703FP compares, particularly on the issue of ghosting. Many people claim to see no ghosting on the 1800FP which Dell made similar "no ghosting" claims about, but then others which I believe to be more truthful or certainly with better perception have admitted that while ghosting is minimal it does not bother them after awhile. I am not keen to make that compromise when virtually noone has said they notice any ghosting on the AUO panel models. Otherwise, I favor the Dell ergonomically.

More input please!

 

[kwest2]

If you visit the Dimension message boards and read the Monitor forum, you will see many threads complaining about 1703 ghosting. I personally would opt for a 20ms or 16ms panel.

Dell currently has 20% off most items (excluding DELL products) at their SB S&P site. You can find the coupon at Fatwallet of course. Combine it with a 10% stackable and you will be doing what I'm doing - buying a 17in lcd.

What have you decided on? I'm trying to decide between the VP171b and the 1760NX.

 

[suklee]

I'm trying to decide between the VP171b and the 1760NX.

Same here. Is the 171B worth the extra $? From all that I've read, they use the same panel. am leaning towards the 1760NX, but man that Viewsonic looks pretty sleek...

edit: Woah, just noticed in your other thread that these two monitors are both $529?! Always thought the 171B was more expensive.

 

[kwest2]

Yea, after coupons both are ~400.

 

[Auric]

I am at least waiting for another Dell Home sale (ideally 20% plus $35 off) because it has 4% ebates and does not collect tax like Bidness does. If nothing changes before then I will likely get the VP171b to hold me over until a nice fast 19" comes out.

Given the same price and since the NEC does not include a DVI cable or pivot it would be my second choice after the Viewsonic.

I did scour the Dell support forum and even posted an enquiry but with dissapointing results. There is a lot of misinformation out thar on various boards and it is really sad how many people tend to praise a certain model just because it is what they have rather than objectively critiquing it.

It seems that it is going to be a few months before LG and Samsung really start cranking out 20ms or less panels. It looks like even the 173P has gone from 16ms to 20ms and now to 25ms. It's ridiculous. The only one I am aware of that is available now is Hyundai -you know like the infamous one that THG praised after it was discontinued? With its awful viewing angle and limited stand I certainly don't think it is worth spending as much on as a newer model.

Check out the new Dell UltraSharp 2001FP 16ms press release and thread at arstechnica!

 

[Auric]

Drat, ebates was reduced to 2%. Fatcash is still 3% though. Dell Home S&P (no taxes) has 15% off on select models and free shipping plus there are stackable $25 off coupon codes available. Oh yeah, and my CC 1.5% It is tempting... but I have no doubt Dell will continue to have some fat deals to bump up Q4 revenues.

I did come across some negative comments regarding the 1703FP's ghosting/trailing so am no longer considering it.

An interesting article at xbitlabs reveals the actual response time on many "20-25ms" panels is even worse while the 16ms AUO panel is actually spot on, despite rumors that the color dithering can cause it to slow significantly.

That article also lead me to check out the "16ms" Sony SDM-X73B which seems to be discontinued and is available from computers4sure for $433 shipped less 3% ebates/fatcash. Despite the large bezel and integrated speakers it is fairly stylish. Unfortunately it lacks pivot but it does sport what seems to be a keen auto-adjusting brightness feature. Any feedback on this sucka? Is it using the AUO panel also? There is a newer HX73 but it seems to be primarily a cosmetic update.

There is also the "20ms" Sharp LL-T17D3 which seems interesting except for the limited vertical viewing angle. It seems this may be the older Hyundis panel as in the Q17. The one review I came across via google was not keen on it.

 

[Auric]

I discovered the Sony is made by LG and am not sure if the claimed 16ms spec is to be believed. LG has used AUO panels in some of their own models though as their own faster panels have been delayed. As for the Sharp, it is made by Sharp but is more than a year old so is not one to consider.

In regards to response times, I came across this response from Viewsonic on hardocp:

"The response time for all panels is specified as Ton + Toff ... That means going from black to white ... and then back to black again. The response times are not even given for the intermediate colors or gray scales. Getting to these intermediate stages usually takes longer, since the driving voltage differences are smaller. The VP171b creates 16M colors by dithering ... This is a combination of spacial and time averaging to create the additional pallet. The different shades are so close to each other that you could not even measure any difference in the response time ... even for the intermediate colors."

This makes claims of slower response times due to dithering very suspect. Still, it could be slower overall anyway but the xbitlabs test counters that.

Does it seem like I am desperately trying to convince myself that purchasing one of these may not be a horrific mistake? I just loathe post-purchase surprises. As long as I am aware of all the limitations so I can make an informed decision I am happy.

This thread is in danger of turning into my own blog.

 

[suklee]

Sorry to chime in on your lil Blog here...

I recently got the NEC 1760NX and have been VERY happy with it so far! Especially after you helped me adjust my BF1942 resolution to 1280 x 1024 Colors are terrific, no noticeable ghosting effects, and no more headaches from staring into a CRT too long.

This was my first LCD purchase. I also looked at the Viewsonic 171(B?) that had a rotating display. Max points for coolness (and bragging rights) but wasn't worth the extra US$80 IMO, at least not for me. What would I use it for? Browsing webpages? pfffft. Are you even considering the 1760NX?

 

[Auric]

I was going to ask you how your 1760NX behaved at different resolutions and in regards to scaling depending on the ATI FPD option but figgered you were having enough trouble. I am glad to hear you are happy with it.

I have seriously considered the NEC as well as the Viewsonic and Planar. I don't consider any of them real lookers compared to the elusive Samsung 173P which also sports hidden connections on the base of the stand which is ideal for unobstructive pivoting. The Planar has a larger bezel to house integrated speakers which I don't like (they should have put them on the back, if at all -their 19" models certainly look better without them). The main reasons to choose the Viewsonic over the NEC is that for the same price though Dell deals is included a DVI cable and pivot stand which I would hope to use for vertically oriented MAME games. I am not convinced that it would be beneficial to web browsing before trying it out.

Well, Dell have upped the ante today and now is pimping 15% and $35 off less ebates or fatcash and CC cashback. The total would be a bit less than $400 and pretty much what I was waiting for. Dell is an evil temptress! :evil:

[in melodramatic cliffhanger voice]
Can Auric possible resist any longer?! Will he fall sway to Hot Deal mania?! Does anyone really give a rat's ass?! Tune in next time for another episode of Indecisive Ramblings!!

 

[einsatz]

Auric, it's weird but I just found this thread today. I've been doing the same research and coming to the same conclusions as you, and it's scary reading your posts since it reflects what I would have written!

Freaky.

Anyway, I feel the same way and I was going to try the 1760nx at Dell with 15% off + $35 off $400, but the Dell order form wouldn't let me apply the $35 off coupon, just the 15% off. I thought the $35 off was stackable

 

[MystiKal]

Dell does not manufactor their own flatpanels! Call up Dell and ask who their OEM is for whatever model Dell flatpanel you are looking for. I have the Dell fP1800 and Dell says it is an LG OEM. I went to LG's site and if u do a side by side camparision, the only difference is the LG is silver and is labeled LG where the Dell is dark grey and labeled Dell. The LG flatpanel/ Dell FP1800 does have some great reviews...plus, I'll add my 2 cents since I own one and say I dont have any complaints on it...i play a lot of counter-strike on it and its great!

Keep in mind, not all of Dell's flatpanels are LG. Last time I called Dell, the FP1800 was the only LG flatpanel. FYI, I think the 21" flatpanel Dell carries is an Acer.