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Law School....

A

Al Neri

Diamond Member
I've read most of the posts, including DigDug's.

Let me get some facts straight. I graduated from undergrad in 04, I?m currently 23 and I?ve been working as an analyst for a very big market regulator for about 1.5 years. Over the weekend, I was talking to my cousin who just graduated from Syracuse Law (ranked ~100), and he was convincing me to go to Law School. Saying that I could easily go to a better school than he did, get a better grade on the LSAT, etc. I know it?s not easy to get a job out of law school, but I want to know what I?m in for after I graduate as far as job offers considering my experience. I?d only go if I made a top 14 school, and I?d prefer it to be away from home (I live in NYC) because I believe I?d be better set to get work done without distractions such as my parents and friends around. Basically I?d shut down my social life to attain my law degree for 3 years, which I can do...

I went to a state school and had a 3.3 GPA. Considering the aforementioned job experience and GPA, what are the odds of me making a top school (Chicago, Penn, Berkeley, Georgetown, etc.) if I receive a very good grade on the LSAT? This is all in the brainstorming session?

My closest coworker at my present job age wise is 27, so I figure after I get out I?d be about the same age as my youngest coworker is now with a law degree? (edit: This is purely for perspective)

Any opinions?

Cliffs:
a)I?m 23, closest coworker is 27
b)I work in market regulation for a major market regulator
c)Law School a good option?
 
Hmm, you might have a hard time getting into a top 14 school with a 3.3 GPA. Of course, your present work experience will help. Make sure you have a strong personal statement and that your LSAT score is 164+, maybe even close to 170.
Basically I?d shut down my social life to attain my law degree for 3 years, which I can do...
Click to expand...
😕 Why would you wanna do that?
 
Basically I?d shut down my social life to attain my law degree for 3 years, which I can do...
Click to expand...
😕 Why would you wanna do that?[/quote]

its part of two things....

1) I want to get out of NY and add insurance for myself to have a job with something that I enjoy
2) The way I do it now, I waste my time every day (playing video games, sitting around), I want to make something of my life.
3) I've never not had a social life, but moving away would give me a chance to try it out elsewhere and make something else of my life.

don
 
why only top 14 schools? if you get good internships during the two summers, you can still get a good job after you graduate. 3.3 GPA will really be testing the limit.
 
First, learn all you can about being a lawyer. A recent survey (sorry, I can't find the cite) found that a majority of lawyers didn't like their work; if they could go back, they would choose another career. I've heard (although I haven't read it myself) that "Law School Confidential" is a good book. I've read "Bar Man" and thought it was a really good book (Syracuse grad too, I think). Law school itself is a lot different from practicing law, and there is alot of things they don't teach in law school about practicing law. Most of the Top 100 school teach on a theoretical level than practical level (that discussion is for another time).

My advice to anyone who wanted is work in a career field for at least 1 year (which it seems you have done). If possible, work for an attorney or a law office, so you actually know what goes on while practicing law. I worked for a solo attorney, and I found myself behind the computer most of the day. I started to hate it.

If you go to a Top 14 school, make sure you know how rankings and summer associate positions work. I'm sure you know that USNWR puts out rankings. The thing is many schools love and hate this thing. They hate it because of the methodology of the rankings (easily manipulated) and that it really doesn't show how good of a fit a school is for a particular person. Schools will tout their rankings, praise it when they go up a level, but the deans will sign a big paper dismissing the rankings. The bottom line is that EMPLOYERS use these rankings to hire and go recruit, and that is what really matters.

The summer associate positions work like this: based on your first year grades, the big law firm campus recruiters will conduct interviews for summer associates between their 2nd and 3rd year. You'll work some, but the majority of the time they'll be wooing you with horse races, baseball games, dinner and partner's houses, etc. If they like you, then they'll extend an offer out to you to come work for them after you take the bar. Then you'll start working those long hours. The starting pay for big firm in Southern Cal was $125K. Now, you think that's alot, but consider the cost of living in SoCal. I'm sure in NY, it is the same, so put all the pay scale in perspective.

Generally, once you get into a Top 14 school, they don't fail you out; you either pass or don't pass, and it's VERY hard to fail. Obviously you want to do well because you want to secure a summer associate position, but at some schools it is highly competitive and the professor tend to use the socratic method in teaching in which someone will invevitably cry.

Don't worry about age; I think the average age is like 25 years old for a 1L.

Should you go to law school? I would say the job market is pretty tough, at least in CA. Some of the message boards I have been on have attys 1 year after passing the bar from Top 14 schools and still not having a job. Big law firms are cutting back on OCI (On campus interviews) because of the costs and cutting down the perks in their summer associate positions. Its not to say that you can't get a job, because I know a lot of people who have them, but I'm just giving you the other side.

Law school definitely opens more doors to alternative/non-legal careers, but I've found that it really only helps if you have significant experience in a certain industry. Some famous people who went to law school are David Stern (Columbia), Tony LaRussa (baseball mgr), creators of Zagat Survey (Yale), and the two guys who created California Pizza Kitchen.

Overall, I thought law school was a fun experience. It allowed me to fool around for 3 more years before joining the real world 😀.

I hope that is helpful.
 
hey man I appreciate that summary.

I'm still noodling it around, seems like its a good fit.

I know how most of the summer associates positions work... my mother has worked as a legal secretary for the past 35 (yes 35) years at one of the top law firms... I believe Vault ranked them 18 on their latest listings. I've also considered politics, being a sports agent (heh), going back into regulation, etc. It's going to be a long thought process...
 
Don't know what rank it is, but Santa Clara, Ca. is supposed to be very good. i've lived near it for around 12 years and it is a nice area.
 
I'm 23 and just applying -- def go for it. I also have a similar GPA and close to your target LSAT. I don't expect to go to a top 15, but I think I will get close.
 
Your LSAT will be critical. In general the law-school admissions process is a numbers game - they ordinarily add your LSAT score and a multiple of your GPA, and you're either in or not. Life experience and extracurriculars are largely irrelevant except in the unusual case that you are a borderline admittee.

I too had a 3.3 (actually more like a 3.35) from a state school. I got a 168 on the LSAT. I was admitted to UC-Hastings, then ranked 23rd, but denied by Washington and Stanford. I was wait-listed at Colorado and UC-Davis. All of these were top 25, but IIRC only Stanford was top 14. A top 14 school will be tough, and perhaps impossible, given your GPA.
 
GPA is a little low for T14. You might be able to get into Georgetown or Northwestern with a 168. 170+ for MVP. No chance at HYS. Aside from getting a good LSAT score, make sure that you can get at least 2 great recommendations, preferably both being from professors. If not, then one from your current boss and the other from a professor.

With that being said, weigh your options carefully. Law school is extremely intense and the costs of attending will limit your financial mobility for several years after you graduate (In other words, don't be expecting to buy a home anytime soon). Additionally, many law students are unhappy so make sure that being a lawyer is what you really want to do.
 
HYS isn't impossible with your GPA if the rest of your app is abnormally strong (incl. really high LSAT)... the T14 schools tend to take a more holistic look at your app than other schools where it's more of a numbers game.
 
Originally posted by: axelfox
I've heard (although I haven't read it myself) that "Law School Confidential" is a good book
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Yes, I read this book fall 2003 and decided law school and lawyering were DEFINETELY not for me.

It said to expect to read 3 hours a day in addition to class and other work. So, if you skip a day you have 6 hours to read the next, and so on.

Also, the average lawyer in this country makes $40K a year (as of 2003). The average starting salary for an assistant DA is $27K! :Q
 
Originally posted by: dafatha00
Originally posted by: mugs
Why did you decide you wanted to go to a top 14 school rather than a top 15 or top 13 school?
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T14 is somewhat of a standard for the best law schools.
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Interesting. Who's number 14 and who's number 15?
 
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: dafatha00
Originally posted by: mugs
Why did you decide you wanted to go to a top 14 school rather than a top 15 or top 13 school?
Click to expand...

T14 is somewhat of a standard for the best law schools.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Who's number 14 and who's number 15?
Click to expand...

fyi, the schools define the number, not the other way around. there just happen to be 14 or so schools that are considered "national", as in the school carries weight all around the country... as opposed to lesser schools that might carry weight in their region, but not elsewhere. within the T14, you have HYS and then HYSCCN.
 
I think UCLA is no 15.

It's actually kind of a BS ranking. All of the top 15 are East Coast/North US schools.... (except UCB and Stanford)

IMHO Saying T14 is just a way of nocking "new" West Coast schools like UCLA and USC.

 
Originally posted by: LordSegan
I think UCLA is no 15.

It's actually kind of a BS ranking. All of the top 15 are East Coast/North US schools.... (except UCB and Stanford)

IMHO Saying T14 is just a way of nocking "new" West Coast schools like UCLA and USC.
Click to expand...

i don't think that's the motivation... UCLA and USC are well recognized in california, but not elsewhere.
 
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