Launch Windows XP from DOS??

[milleron]

Symantec's Norton Ghost 9 has hosed my new installation of XP. It's driver causes a BSOD within seconds after the XP splash screen comes up. I have to reboot to DOS, rename that driver from pq2vi.sys to pq2vi.old, and then reboot. I can do that all from a BAT file on a Windows 98 boot floppy because my C: drive is FAT32.
With Windows 9x, one could simply invoke the "win" command from DOS and launch Windows. Is there a way to do something like that from DOS with XP? In other words, I want to replace one OS with another without rebooting. My intuition tells me this is impossible, but if I could do it, then I could accomplish everything from a batch file without the reboot.

BTW, I've been in contact with Symantec tech support who acknowledge the problem. Rather than just stating that they have a crappy driver which they, in their wealthy magnificence, can't be bothered to update, they got me to "opt out" of "/noexecute" in boot.ini. Unfortunately, that made not the slightest bit of difference. This was the final straw with Symantec and me. After years of being a loyal customer, I've finally had it, and I'll never buy another of their products. Unfortunately, I paid for this one and can't return it after the box was opened :-(

Ron

 

[TungFree]

What I am thinking is to try boot from Dos in an XP OS and try and do what you have in mind from XP which may be more forgiving than win 98.
This is only a hunch. but if you backup your win98 and try this you only have time to loose.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: milleron
Symantec's Norton Ghost 9 has hosed my new installation of XP. It's driver causes a BSOD within seconds after the XP splash screen comes up. I have to reboot to DOS, rename that driver from pq2vi.sys to pq2vi.old, and then reboot. I can do that all from a BAT file on a Windows 98 boot floppy because my C: drive is FAT32.
With Windows 9x, one could simply invoke the "win" command from DOS and launch Windows. Is there a way to do something like that from DOS with XP? In other words, I want to replace one OS with another without rebooting. My intuition tells me this is impossible, but if I could do it, then I could accomplish everything from a batch file without the reboot.

No, you will have to take the floppy out and reboot, you can't launch XP from within that DOS session.

BTW, I've been in contact with Symantec tech support who acknowledge the problem. Rather than just stating that they have a crappy driver which they, in their wealthy magnificence, can't be bothered to update, they got me to "opt out" of "/noexecute" in boot.ini. Unfortunately, that made not the slightest bit of difference. This was the final

I'll check on the status of this on Wednesday. But if it's a known issue, it will be addressed. Saying that we "can't be bothered to update" isn't accurate. Whenever there is a bug, tech supports job is to try to work you around it until an update is available (unless it already is). Did you expect the tech support person to fix the code himself and send you a private build?

Unfortunately, I paid for this one and can't return it after the box was opened :-(

Your store may have that policy, but you can look at our return policy online. You can return the product if it's been less than (as I recall) 30 days.

Bill


Ron[/quote]

 

[milleron]

Well, that's the problem, I cannot even get into XP to do what you suggest
I have to boot to DOS, perform the renaming operation on the errant driver, and then reboot to Windows. I'd like to launch XP from the DOS environment I'm in when I've finished the renaming task that has to be done EVERY time I boot into XP.

Most of the time, I'll just be hibernating XP so this trick won't be necessary, but EVERY time I reboot, warm or cold, I get a BSOD unless I first boot to DOS, do the renaming, and reboot again.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: milleron

Well, that's the problem, I cannot even get into XP to do what you suggest
I have to boot to DOS, perform the renaming operation on the errant driver, and then reboot to Windows. I'd like to launch XP from the DOS environment I'm in when I've finished the renaming task that has to be done EVERY time I boot into XP.

Most of the time, I'll just be hibernating XP so this trick won't be necessary, but EVERY time I reboot, warm or cold, I get a BSOD unless I first boot to DOS, do the renaming, and reboot again.

I'm a bit confused and obviously missing something. You should only need to do this once. When you rename that driver, it's no longer being used. How is it being put back so you need to do this everytime you boot?

Bill

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: bsobel

BTW, I've been in contact with Symantec tech support who acknowledge the problem. Rather than just stating that they have a crappy driver which they, in their wealthy magnificence, can't be bothered to update, they got me to "opt out" of "/noexecute" in boot.ini. Unfortunately, that made not the slightest bit of difference. This was the final

I'll check on the status of this on Wednesday. But if it's a known issue, it will be addressed. Saying that we "can't be bothered to update" isn't accurate. Whenever there is a bug, tech supports job is to try to work you around it until an update is available (unless it already is). Did you expect the tech support person to fix the code himself and send you a private build?

Of course not. What kind of idiot do you take me for? What I'm saying is that there's no excuse at this time, so many months after the release of SP2, for Symantec to be saying, "Sorry, but in order to use our pricy software, you're just going to have to disable an SP2 feature [Data Execution Policy] that's designed to protect you from malware." At this late date, Symantec already should have updated the driver to comply with DEP.
And it's most definitely a "known issue." There's already a page devoted to it in the Symantec Knowledge Base.
And, yes, I think it is accurate to say that they "can't be bothered to update" it. Of all the software I loaded on my new computer, and there's been lots of it, this Symantec driver is the ONLY one that, by the company's own admission, has not been updated to be in compliance with DEP. It certainly appears that they can't be bothered, since everyone else seems to have managed it by now. A time-honored aphorism states that, in customer service, what the customer thinks is the actual fact.

So that's where I'm coming from. Ghost works very nicely, but it's causing me a major headache. I've actually had to create a boot floppy with a batch file on it to rename PQ2Vi.sys and then warm reboot to Windows. I have to sit right there to eject the floppy as soon as it's done it's thing. There's another BAT file in Windows Startup to rename PQ2Vi.old back to it's original name. Can you see why this perturbs me? If you Google this problem, you'll find that there are many users suffering it and that they all seem to have simply given up on Ghost in SP2 computers. For them, respondents have just four words, "Acronis True Image 8."

Since you're obviously a Symantec employee, do you think that reinstalling might be worthwhile?

Ron

 

[bsobel]

I've actually had to create a boot floppy with a batch file on it to rename PQ2Vi.sys and then warm reboot to Windows. I have to sit right there to eject the floppy as soon as it's done it's thing. There's another BAT file in Windows Startup to rename PQ2Vi.old back to it's original name.

Why are you renaming it back? That is a boot mode driver, if it's not started during boot, it's not gonna start later (as I recall, gonna have to double check). Why not just leave it renamed?

What I'm saying is that there's no excuse at this time, so many months after the release of SP2, for Symantec to be saying, "Sorry, but in order to use our pricy

Well, the fact that you tried the steps listed to edit your boot.ini file, and your still having a problem makes me think that something else is going on. If it's a DEP issue, that change would resolve it no questions. You mind trying that change one more time for me just to confirm if we are talking about the same issue or not?

It certainly appears that they can't be bothered, since everyone else seems to have managed it by now.

I won't be back in the office until Wednesday, but I'll ping the Utah folks when I get it to see where they are on this.

A time-honored aphorism states that, in customer service, what the customer thinks is the actual fact.

Since you're obviously a Symantec employee, do you think that reinstalling might be worthwhile?

Unlikely. If this is indeed a DEP issue, the boot.ini setting change will fix it. It's not an indeterminate issue. If it's not DEP, I suspect it's a conflict with something else on the box (I know we had one with Avtail replication software, but I know I had that resolved a bit ago. I'd be curious as to what other software on the box might be seen as creating virtual drives or modifying the physical description of real drives (Nero, AnyDvd, etc...))

Bill


Ron

[/quote]

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: bsobel
Why are you renaming it back? That is a boot mode driver, if it's not started during boot, it's not gonna start later (as I recall, gonna have to double check). Why not just leave it renamed?

I was under the impression that the driver had to be present for Ghost to run. Renaming it after I was in Windows seemed to allow that because Ghost successfully made an auto base backup two days ago, but yesterday, it failed to make the scheduled incremental. Today, I cannot even launch Ghost. it gives an error message, "The specified service does not exist as an installed service." It's getting more confusing. I guess I'll just leave it renamed, but Ghost isn't working. Are you quite sure that an uninstall/reinstall isn't in order?

Well, the fact that you tried the steps listed to edit your boot.ini file, and your still having a problem makes me think that something else is going on. If it's a DEP issue, that change would resolve it no questions. You mind trying that change one more time for me just to confirm if we are talking about the same issue or not?

Well the boot.ini file still reads /NoExecute=OptOut. Is there anything else to do?

Unlikely. If this is indeed a DEP issue, the boot.ini setting change will fix it. It's not an indeterminate issue. If it's not DEP, I suspect it's a conflict with something else on the box (I know we had one with Avtail replication software, but I know I had that resolved a bit ago. I'd be curious as to what other software on the box might be seen as creating virtual drives or modifying the physical description of real drives (Nero, AnyDvd, etc...))

No burning software installed yet. I installed MS Office, AVG antivirus, Zone Alarm (free version), MS Antispyware, Asus Probe, MB Monitor, WinZip, ERUNT, Lavalys Everest, Sisoft Sandra, CPU-Z, HD Tach, Norton Utilities, PowerDVD (installed after this Ghost problem arose), nVidia nTune, the drivers for onboard sound, nVidia Mixer, Firefox, Thunderbird, and a couple of little shareware apps for envelope printing and auto-maintenance rcord keeping.
There is a mixture of formats on the box: C: is FAT32. E:, a logical drive on the same HD as C:, is NTFS. P: is an NTFS drive on an extended partition on the other HD.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'd rather use Ghost than True Image, because Ghost does one VERY important thing that TI doesn't. It allows me to specify the number of base backups to keep so that the drive used for images doesn't fill up and overflow.

Ron

 

[milleron]

Just for the heck of it, I uninstalled Ghost and reinstalled. No joy. I still get the BSOD that forces me to rename or remove PQV2i.sys from the System32\Drivers folder. Norton Ghost will no longer even start -- just errors out with "specified service does not exist as installed service." My brand new, relatively pristine version of XP just doesn't like that Ghost driver regardless of the settings for DEP. I'm mystified.

Ron

 

[bsobel]

Ron, can you post the full contents of the boot.ini file? Im a bit baffled too, nothing in your list of software particurally seemed weird. I'm honestly not sure if those folks tested against AVG and Zone. I could *possibly* see AVG as having compat problems with it (but I'd still be suprised), I'd be very suprised if Zone did. Would you consider uninstalling AVG (not trying to convert you to NAV, just one boot with it gone to see if it's related)

Bill

 

[milleron]

Sure.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optout /fastdetect

I was having a LOT of trouble getting the driver of MB Monitor to load. I thought I had cleverly solved that problem by installing it in a certain way, but it turns out that the real reason I got it to work was that, in troubleshooting the Ghost issue, I had changed the DEP setting to "optout." Figuring that that might have something to do with the Ghost problem, I found the MBM driver in the System32 folder, and temporarily deleted that. It didn't help, though. Even in the absence of that driver, PQV2i.SYS still causes a BSOD within about one second after the display of the first XP splash screen. Whatever that Ghost driver is doing is happening almost instantly once XP starts to load.

Ron

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: bsobel
I'm honestly not sure if those folks tested against AVG and Zone. I could *possibly* see AVG as having compat problems with it (but I'd still be suprised), I'd be very suprised if Zone did. Would you consider uninstalling AVG (not trying to convert you to NAV, just one boot with it gone to see if it's related)

Bill

1 -- uninstalled AVG. On reboot, no BSOD, but Ghost would not launch because it was "not connceted to service."
2 -- uninstalled Ghost and rebooted.
3 -- with DEP still set to "optout," reinstalled Ghost and rebooted. Now Ghost runs, but it will NOT create a backup. It will start to create an image, but immediately after the message "opening virtual drive" (or something like that), the process stops cold with the message, "Backup of C: did not complete successfully. Error EBAB001A: An unknown exception has occurred (OxBAB001A).

Conclusion: AVG seems to have been causing the Ghost driver to give a BSOD. That's "fixed," but, unfortunately, I'm now unable to get Ghost running again.

WHAT a bad day!

Hope you can help, and thanks for the suggestions, so far.

Ron

 

[bsobel]

Conclusion: AVG seems to have been causing the Ghost driver to give a BSOD. That's "fixed," but, unfortunately, I'm now unable to get Ghost running again.

Not that it's an immediate help, but I'll make sure the team gets that into the testing matrix right away. Which version of AVG are you running?

Now that AVG is off (even temporarily) can you try the uninstall/reinstall again? Sorry for the hoop jumping, but I think we're at least narrowing it down (admittidly, probably would have been easier if it just was a DEP issue...)

Bill

 

[milleron]

This was the very latest version of AVG as of one week ago.

I uninstalled Ghost and reinstalled, but I got the same error message. Ghost can't back up anything.
I scrubbed all symantec keys from Registry and then uninstalled all of System Works and reinstalled Utilities and Ghost, but I get the same error message. Ghost tries, but it can't back up anything.
I went back and installed NAV, hoping that the combination of Symantec products might install a needed file or setting, but I get the same error message.
Ghost will NOT back up anything.
Also, if I try to click a Live Update button in any Symantec program, it errors out stating that Live Update is not installed and to please Reinstall System works.
--- reininstalling does nothing.
--- the Live Update Link in Start/All Programs/Norton System Works DOES work, but it cannot install the "shared components" update that's listed as one of the "subscription services." It gives an error message and a link to Symantec support where FIVE steps are listed to correct it. Of course, as you've already guessed, none of those steps does a damned thing to correct the problem.

New conclusion: NSW is hopelessly screwed up on this computer. I believe that it will cost me an entire week of work, but the only remedy I see short of a reformat/reinstall is to use System Restore to go back to the Restore Point right before Ghost and Utilities were installed the first time seven days ago.
Damn!

Ron

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally posted by: bsobel
Ron, can you post the full contents of the boot.ini file? Im a bit baffled too, nothing in your list of software particurally seemed weird. I'm honestly not sure if those folks tested against AVG and Zone. I could *possibly* see AVG as having compat problems with it (but I'd still be suprised), I'd be very suprised if Zone did. Would you consider uninstalling AVG (not trying to convert you to NAV, just one boot with it gone to see if it's related)

Bill

Not to be a buttinski but I have used Ghost with Windows XP SP2 without problems with the drivers (pq2vi) using ( /NoExecute=OptOut ) in the boot.ini. Of course the one big difference is the I'm using NAV instead of AVG... This could be the smoking gun.

pcgeek11

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: pcgeek11
Not to be a buttinski but I have used Ghost with Windows XP SP2 without problems with the drivers (pq2vi) using ( /NoExecute=OptOut ) in the boot.ini. Of course the one big difference is the I'm using NAV instead of AVG... This could be the smoking gun.

Don't apologize for butting in. The more people that comment, the more we learn. I believe that AVG is the smoking gun. Like you, I also have used Ghost on another XP SP2 computer with the DEP set to OptOut, but I sure can't make it work this time. What's so frustrating is that this computer was less than a week old when this storm arose. The waters really we're muddied by a Registry that had years of clutter in it, previous editions of Ghost or System Works, or anything like that.
Even if AVG is in the equation, it was still PQV2i.SYS that Windows always blamed for the Page Fault.
And now, I can't even get Live Update to work, let alone Ghost. Sheesh.

I'm hoping Bill can pull a miracle out of his hat.

 

[milleron]

Bill,
If you're still following the thread, I find that I can back up a drive if I set the compression to "NONE."
I still have no Live Update. It says to "reinstall System Works," but of course, reinstalling with the same components completes instantly and does nothing.

Does the fact that I get errors only when trying to back up with compression yield any clues?

Ron

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally posted by: milleron
Bill,
If you're still following the thread, I find that I can back up a drive if I set the compression to "NONE."
I still have no Live Update. It says to "reinstall System Works," but of course, reinstalling with the same components completes instantly and does nothing.

Does the fact that I get errors only when trying to back up with compression yield any clues?

Ron

milleron,

Are you using Ghost from within the GUI windows environment? If so that is when I started having problems with Norton Ghost. I had always used Powerquest Drive Image up to I think version 8 when they started the ability to back up from the GUI environment... Then Symantec bought them out... I don't know if or how much Symantec changed the code, but at that point I bought a copy and got very flaky back-ups from the GUI. Some were good some were bad... I hated it along with the net evironment thing. I then was looking for a good reliable answer to my problems and the fact that Ghost wouldn't touch a Linux Reiser file system. I researched and tried the trial version of " Acronis True Image 8 " which would back up a reiser file system. It can also back up from the Windows GUI (although I don't use this feature ). I use the boot CD that it will create and I have not had any image problems since.

I am not trying to sway you away from Norton as I love their other products, I have been using them since DOS Ver 2.XX days, but I think the Ghost product we now have on the market is a flawed composite from Powerquest and Symantec, Hybrid if you will. Just my 2 Cents. I just felt that I would give you a suggestion of an alternate product, They also have a free trial, free to try here:

http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/download/

pcgeek11

 

[milleron]

Hey, PCGeek,
Thanks for the tip. I, also, used Drive Image at least back to version 2. I liked the fact that the restore process could be launched from a floppy, but with the advent of NTFS, that nicety was not to continue. Also, I am, in fact, a registered owner and user of True Image 8. I do find it reliable, as you say, but it lacks one critical feature that Ghost gives me. Ghost will allow the user to specify how many base backups to keep. I set that for "two," and then I know that there will always be two complete weekly backup sets (a base and 6 incrementals) for each drive. With TI8, the drive used to store images just keeps filling up with incrementals, until the user manually wipes them all out and has the app start the process all over again. What a perfectly simple little programming job, but Acronis always refuses to include it. That pisses me off.
I had this unused Norton System Works Premier package, so I thought I'd try to get Ghost working on this box.

Please tell me what you mean by "flaky backups." You say that some were bad. Does that mean that you got backup images that could not be used to restore the drive.

Ron

 

[bsobel]

Ron,

Can you try to install the latest version of LiveUpdate from here Let's see if we can nuke that issue, I'll pass the compression hint off to the dev team (just got back into LA from BigBear, will be in the office tomorrow)

Bill

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: bsobel
Ron,

Can you try to install the latest version of LiveUpdate from here Let's see if we can nuke that issue, I'll pass the compression hint off to the dev team (just got back into LA from BigBear, will be in the office tomorrow)

Bill

I installed Live Update from a link in the Symantec Knowledge Base and got it working in all the apps. Once I did that, I could successfully download the "shared components" update that refused to install previously.

I found that Ghost will create images but NOT with the compression setting on "standard." It completes successfully if the compression is set on "None," "Medium," or "High." I tracked this down in the Knowledge Base where it says that the algorithm used for standard compression is not compatible with DEP in SP2 (we're back to that again) and that it gives the exact error message I get when trying to use standard compression. Is says that this incompatiblitiy has been corrected in LSR 3.03, and it says to obtain that from Symantec Tech Support. I've replied to the Tech who's been corresponding with me on this, and I've asked him to supply LSR 3.03. I don't know why Live Update wouldn't have taken care of that, but it hasn't, so I'm hoping that LSR 3.03 is a simple patch that I can apply. If I could make Ghost back up using it's standard (fastest) compression, I'd be finished troubleshooting this problem. I have a fair workaround, but I don't like leaving a commercial program without all the features it's designed to give me.

Thanks for all your help.

Ron

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: bsobel
Ron,

Can you try to install the latest version of LiveUpdate from here Let's see if we can nuke that issue, I'll pass the compression hint off to the dev team (just got back into LA from BigBear, will be in the office tomorrow)

Bill

I just replied, and it got lost in the ether somewhere, so if dual replies appear, I'm sorry

I did get Live Update installed by downloading lusetup.exe from a link in the Symantec Knowledge Base. LU now works from within each of the programs, AND I can now actually install the "shared components" update that used to download but errored out on install.

I found that Ghost can backup drives, but ONLY when the compression setting is set to ANYthing other than "standard." I tracked this down in the Knowledge Base where it says that Ghost's standard compression algorithm is incompatible with SP2's DEP (back to that again) and that it gives the exact error message I'm seeing. It says the incompatibility is resolved in LSR 3.03, and it says to get that from Symantec Tech Support. Well, I've been corresponding with a Tech there, so I replied to ask him for it. I don't know why LU wouldn't have taken care of it, but, since my problem persists after running LU several times, I'm hoping that LSR 3.03 is a patch I can be sent and apply with a click.

I presently have a workaround for my sole remaining problem, but I'm not comfortable with a commercial program not being able to function as designed. I'll keep working on this as long as it takes.

Thanks for all your help, Bill

Ron

 

[bsobel]

I found that Ghost will create images but NOT with the compression setting on "standard." t completes successfully if the compression is set on "None," "Medium," or "High." I tracked this down in the Knowledge Base where it says that the algorithm used for standard compression is not compatible with DEP in SP2 (we're back to that again) and that it gives the exact error message I get when trying to use standard compression. Is says that this incompatiblitiy has been corrected in LSR 3.03, and it says to obtain that from Symantec Tech Support.

Great! Let me know if you have any trouble getting it (you shouldn't), but if you do I'll track it down .

Thanks for all your help.

Thank you for your patience and willingness to track down what is going on. I'll talk to the dev team regarding the AVG issue to make sure us or them (or both, once we determine whats going on) gets it addressed in the driver.

Bill

 

[milleron]

Originally posted by: bsobel
Great! Let me know if you have any trouble getting it (you shouldn't), but if you do I'll track it down .

Bill

Bill,
Do you know what LSR 3.03 is? I perused all the files that Ghost and System Works installed, but I couldn't find one that referenced "LSR." Is it a simple file, or is LSR 3.03 the name of an upgrade package or something like that?

Ron

 

[bsobel]

Do you know what LSR 3.03 is? I perused all the files that Ghost and System Works installed, but I couldn't find one that referenced "LSR." Is it a simple file, or is LSR 3.03 the name of an upgrade package or something like that?

LiveState Recovery. Thats the name of the product on the enterprise side.
Bill