Latest and Greatest Next Gen Passports!!!

Jon855

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2005
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I think this is odd, I don't believe that this would be a great of help, but however maybe the "No Such Agency" has another plans behind it, who knows, maybe they will ship up some box up there that can track nearly all of these new passports. I've no idea why we should put up with this kind of security measures. I just believe that we're covering up our lousy and weak mistakes with more complex system and as a result it'll be harder to control... I think at least.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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It's part and parcel of the ability of hightech sales pros to penetrate the feeble intellects of many management types, who somehow think technology is the answer to their prayers. They firmly believe that getting technology is the answer, when getting a clue would do more good...
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
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Bear in mind that the agency that developed these passports is run by liberals who graduated with honors from our best northeastern universities. 22 years working with them left me with little respect for liberals except as pretty good people - just not so sharp!
 

eigen

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2003
4,000
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Originally posted by: Jon855
I think this is odd, I don't believe that this would be a great of help, but however maybe the "No Such Agency" has another plans behind it, who knows, maybe they will ship up some box up there that can track nearly all of these new passports. I've no idea why we should put up with this kind of security measures. I just believe that we're covering up our lousy and weak mistakes with more complex system and as a result it'll be harder to control... I think at least.
You could just build them in a backdoor.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
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They are really good with encryption and back doors. Despite my doubts, there may be a good reason for why they are doing this the way they are.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
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I wonder. If a passport with this RFID technology were place in a lead-foil sleeve, would that protect against unauthorized reading of the information?

Edit: My bad. The third article specifically says that the passports may come in a metal sleeve, or that the passport cover may be mesh, to prevent unauthorized reading.
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
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Originally posted by: Condor
They are really good with encryption and back doors. Despite my doubts, there may be a good reason for why they are doing this the way they are.

It isn't encrypted becuase every thrid world POS country needs to be able to write and read from the RFID tag. There for I bet with in a week the key would be easyer to find on the internet then the company manual. What baffles me is why they are storing the data in the RFID chip and not just a tag that can be looked up in a database. It would seem much cheaper just to store say 40 bytes of data and you wouldn't need new passports when ever you move.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
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Yep, I finally read the links and see the hand of some of our liberal Department leaders in this. They read the computer mags and want the first bauble that surfaces without a thorough study and with preconceived requirements. Sure glad I am retired! This was really awful under the Clinton administration when we had a former baby sitter for the VP as the Departments CIO! And you guys wonder why I make fun of libs!
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
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Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
They are really good with encryption and back doors. Despite my doubts, there may be a good reason for why they are doing this the way they are.

It isn't encrypted becuase every thrid world POS country needs to be able to write and read from the RFID tag. There for I bet with in a week the key would be easyer to find on the internet then the company manual. What baffles me is why they are storing the data in the RFID chip and not just a tag that can be looked up in a database. It would seem much cheaper just to store say 40 bytes of data and you wouldn't need new passports when ever you move.

Actually, they already do that. I guess someone thinks that isn't adequate. The passport has a machine readable line on it that is matched to a database that is avaliable world wide.

 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
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Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
They are really good with encryption and back doors. Despite my doubts, there may be a good reason for why they are doing this the way they are.

It isn't encrypted becuase every thrid world POS country needs to be able to write and read from the RFID tag. There for I bet with in a week the key would be easyer to find on the internet then the company manual. What baffles me is why they are storing the data in the RFID chip and not just a tag that can be looked up in a database. It would seem much cheaper just to store say 40 bytes of data and you wouldn't need new passports when ever you move.

Actually, they already do that. I guess someone thinks that isn't adequate. The passport has a machine readable line on it that is matched to a database that is avaliable world wide.

I would guess someone is getting a nice kick back. That or there database is so slow and hackable that they think a chip owned by the user is more secure.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
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Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
They are really good with encryption and back doors. Despite my doubts, there may be a good reason for why they are doing this the way they are.

It isn't encrypted becuase every thrid world POS country needs to be able to write and read from the RFID tag. There for I bet with in a week the key would be easyer to find on the internet then the company manual. What baffles me is why they are storing the data in the RFID chip and not just a tag that can be looked up in a database. It would seem much cheaper just to store say 40 bytes of data and you wouldn't need new passports when ever you move.

Actually, they already do that. I guess someone thinks that isn't adequate. The passport has a machine readable line on it that is matched to a database that is avaliable world wide.

I would guess someone is getting a nice kick back. That or there database is so slow and hackable that they think a chip owned by the user is more secure.

Naw, the db is well protected. I'm at a loss. I never could figure them out.

 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
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Originally posted by: Condor
Bear in mind that the agency that developed these passports is run by liberals who graduated with honors from our best northeastern universities. 22 years working with them left me with little respect for liberals except as pretty good people - just not so sharp!

*shakes the sarcasm-o-meter*

On the side note though, thats scare. There's nothing stoppinng you from wraping your passport in tinfoil though....
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: Condor
Bear in mind that the agency that developed these passports is run by liberals who graduated with honors from our best northeastern universities. 22 years working with them left me with little respect for liberals except as pretty good people - just not so sharp!

The State Department developed the passport technology? :confused: That sort of seems more along the lines of NSA or some agency like that.

By the way, I get this strong feeling that you probably aren't as smart as you think you are. No hard feelings, most people aren't ;)
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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On a more technical note, I don't really see any need for RFID in this case. Since passports are always checked for a matching photo, they need to be taken out, opened and given to an official. Why not simply make the chip readable only through direct contact? At that point it's only a tiny bit more work, and much more secure. RFID is good for making information easier to read, so it's useful in situations where reading the info is the most difficult part (scanning a cart full of items at the store). With passports, the actual reading doesn't seem like the most time consuming part of the process.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Condor
Bear in mind that the agency that developed these passports is run by liberals who graduated with honors from our best northeastern universities. 22 years working with them left me with little respect for liberals except as pretty good people - just not so sharp!

By the way, I get this strong feeling that you probably aren't as smart as you think you are.

LOL. I would say it sounds like he has an inferiority after dealing with "liberals who graduated with honors from our best northeaster universities" too.

Anyway, having a good passport system is someting the government SHOULD be spending money (as opposed to useless wars) so it prevents the real terrorists from getting in. Not saying whether this solution is the best, I'll leave it up to the experts.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
...
Anyway, having a good passport system is someting the government SHOULD be spending money (as opposed to useless wars) so it prevents the real terrorists from getting in. Not saying whether this solution is the best, I'll leave it up to the experts.

I agree...and I think the best approach in this case could be to use some sort of data authentication. The thing is, visual authentication of the passport's authenticity isn't exactly the best system any more. Forgers are getting pretty good at duplicating that, and they don't even have to change the whole thing. Let's say my passport is stolen and a good forger replaces the picture one it with a terrorist's picture. Unless that replacement is obvious, there is nothing else on the passport that would say that the picture isn't of me. Now the visual aspects of a passport are hard to fake, but they aren't perfect.

What might be a good idea is some sort of data storage in the passport that contains authentication information about the passport. For example, using public key encryption on the data would allow the US (or whatever country issued the passport) to sign the data, including the picture, and allow others to verify it without allowing them to duplicate the signing.

Of course setting up that infrastructure might be difficult, but there are only a relativly limited number of countries out there. The problem would be the ones that can't afford such an authentication system, but they would be no worse off than they are now.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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One thing I forgot to say, and this is important enough that it needs its own post, is that the best security systems are simple and do only what they need to do. In this case, the whole point of a passport is to allow countries to verify what foreigners are traveling inside the country and to verify they are who they say they are. So adding any information beyond what is already in passports seems like a bad idea, especially because you may not want some countries to know too much about you.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Meh. Nice sale for some geek factory, other than that, pretty pointless, it seems to me.

Fake passports aren't really fake anymore, anyway- witness the Israeli/ New Zealand passport scandal awhile back... They're real, but the means used to obtain them are fraudulent...
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
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Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: Condor
Bear in mind that the agency that developed these passports is run by liberals who graduated with honors from our best northeastern universities. 22 years working with them left me with little respect for liberals except as pretty good people - just not so sharp!

*shakes the sarcasm-o-meter*

On the side note though, thats scare. There's nothing stoppinng you from wraping your passport in tinfoil though....

Remember those little metal boxes that AOL used to send out their freebies in? I always wondered what those were actually good for. Now we know!

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Condor
Bear in mind that the agency that developed these passports is run by liberals who graduated with honors from our best northeastern universities. 22 years working with them left me with little respect for liberals except as pretty good people - just not so sharp!

The State Department developed the passport technology? :confused: That sort of seems more along the lines of NSA or some agency like that.

By the way, I get this strong feeling that you probably aren't as smart as you think you are. No hard feelings, most people aren't ;)

State has a whole bureau that does that. I'm smart enough to know that. That would be Consular Affairs. They do use contractors to do the development, but requirements are established by CA. Link: CA

I helped write this LINK and it hasn't been updated since. So there!