Laser Acupuncture

[DangerAardvark]

So my I talked to my sister after a check-up with her doctor and she tells me that he referred her to some doctor who recommended "laser acupuncture" for weight-loss. So I know acupuncture is pretty much placebo effect, but add "laser" to that and my bullshit meter peaks.

So whatever, people believe all sorts of crazy crap. If it helps, it helps, right? Then she tells me the price tag. $300 for the procedure, $80 a week for the "supplements" which amount to protein shakes, basically.

I dunno whether to hate the guy for being a scam artist (or credulous dolt) or grudgingly respect the guy. Hey, you gotta repay those student loans somehow right?

 

[Arkitech]

I've never heard of acupuncture being a placebo treatment, however I have doubts about it being able to help with weight loss.

 

[tw1164]

I vote for hate.

 

[SpiderWiz]

I pass a yard sign near my house that says "Call about laser treatment for smoking". (Worthington-Galena road for you Central Ohio people.) I thought that was weird, yet I wandered how that would work.

 

[interchange]

The thing about chiropractic, acupuncture, etc. is that they can never be evaluated properly by a study. Modern studies for drugs (good studies) are double-blind. This means that not only does the patient not know if they are receiving a placebo, but the administrator doesn't know if they are giving a placebo. Thus, there is no bias in either result.

In such physical modalities, even if it were possible to fake the procedure for the patient, the practicioner would obviously know if the procedure was fake.

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: SpiderWiz
I pass a yard sign near my house that says "Call about laser treatment for smoking". (Worthington-Galena road for you Central Ohio people.) I thought that was weird, yet I wandered how that would work.

I heard a lot of advertisements on the radio for that not too long ago... maybe 6-12 months ago, on WCOL. I don't smoke though, so I never paid much attention to it. Apparently there are people that claim it works... /me shrugs

 

[911paramedic]

Well I just learned about these:

Laser lancet tip

A laser lancet tip and method for controlling laser incisions for the purpose of taking blood samples from patients in a variety of body locations and age groups. A removable tip on a laser is used to mask a laser pulse and modify the length and width of an incision made by the laser by only allowing a portion of the laser beam to contact the target surface. The depth of the incision may be controlled by either a lens or filter which is optically aligned with the laser beam.

It is supposed to be less painful and leave a smaller scar than the blade lancets.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: interchange
The thing about chiropractic, acupuncture, etc. is that they can never be evaluated properly by a study. Modern studies for drugs (good studies) are double-blind. This means that not only does the patient not know if they are receiving a placebo, but the administrator doesn't know if they are giving a placebo. Thus, there is no bias in either result.

In such physical modalities, even if it were possible to fake the procedure for the patient, the practicioner would obviously know if the procedure was fake.

Thus, it's not able to be evaluated by a double-blind study. That's not the only possible way to evaluate a procedure. That logic is simply retarded. According to that logic, it's impossible to properly evaluate a heart transplant. There have been numerous studies that have shown that chiropractic is beneficial in many cases, but I'm not aware of one scientific study supporting acupuncture.

 

[DangerAardvark]

The more I think about it, the more I realize what a great scam this is. First of all, this guy is a Gynecologist. Statistically and anecdotally, women are more likely to buy into this sort of thing. He's abusing his position of trust as a physician of course. But, he's also combining the mystique of newfangled technology with the mystique of ancient Chinese superstition. AND he's asian. What a fuckin' goldmine!

Did I mention that this procedure is also commonly used to help people stop smoking? This shit is literally the fizzy-water cure-all for the new millennium. The more I learn about it, the more it pisses me off.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: interchange
The thing about chiropractic, acupuncture, etc. is that they can never be evaluated properly by a study. Modern studies for drugs (good studies) are double-blind. This means that not only does the patient not know if they are receiving a placebo, but the administrator doesn't know if they are giving a placebo. Thus, there is no bias in either result.

In such physical modalities, even if it were possible to fake the procedure for the patient, the practicioner would obviously know if the procedure was fake.

Thus, it's not able to be evaluated by a double-blind study. That's not the only possible way to evaluate a procedure. That logic is simply retarded. According to that logic, it's impossible to properly evaluate a heart transplant. There have been numerous studies that have shown that chiropractic is beneficial in many cases, but I'm not aware of one scientific study supporting acupuncture.

Well, acupuncture is for real. I have experience it on a small scale. I don't know how that translate to bigger scale but that is that.

Acupuncture is just stimulus of nerve clusters. It's been used a lot in place of anesthetics.

My music teacher (back in grade 7) was also known for his knowledge in acupuncture. One day I was having a serious toothache whilst attending coral practice. He grabbed an old fashion key with a round shaft and pressed 2 spots on my earlobe and asked me which one hurt more. I told him which and he applied pressure with the key on that spot for like 7 seconds. After that the toothache was replace with a numbed feeling in that area. He said he blocked the signals temporarily and I should go to the dentist later that day.

I guess it is possible to focus the laser to penetrate your skin and stimulate particular nerve clusters, but I don't know how that works.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

My Dad is an traditional acupuncturist, so I take offense that its only a placebo effect.

Watching him practice for 20 years, I have no doubt that acupuncture does affect the nervous system in some way. Whether it be back pain reduction or a headache.

There have been numerous studies that have shown that chiropractic is beneficial in many cases, but I'm not aware of one scientific study supporting acupuncture.

Go to pubmed.com Type in "acupuncture effectiveness" into search terms. You get 660 terms. A majority researching the benefits of acupuncture with diseases such as Cancer

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Oops Double

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: interchange
The thing about chiropractic, acupuncture, etc. is that they can never be evaluated properly by a study. Modern studies for drugs (good studies) are double-blind. This means that not only does the patient not know if they are receiving a placebo, but the administrator doesn't know if they are giving a placebo. Thus, there is no bias in either result.

In such physical modalities, even if it were possible to fake the procedure for the patient, the practicioner would obviously know if the procedure was fake.

Thus, it's not able to be evaluated by a double-blind study. That's not the only possible way to evaluate a procedure. That logic is simply retarded. According to that logic, it's impossible to properly evaluate a heart transplant. There have been numerous studies that have shown that chiropractic is beneficial in many cases, but I'm not aware of one scientific study supporting acupuncture.

my school is working with harvard medical school on medical research for accupuncture

 

[Throckmorton]

Acupuncture and chiropracty are both bunk. There's no evidence that either is anything but placebo

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Acupuncture and chiropracty are both bunk. There's no evidence that either is anything but placebo

chiropracty is bunk. chiropractic, however, isn't.

you obviously don't know enough about it to have an educated opinion, so why say anything at all? there are studies out there on pubmed that show that it's beneficial and NOT placebo.

also, you need to remember that placebo effect wears off relatively shortly. if chiropractic was placebo, why do people still feel relief after months and years of treatment? because it's not placebo.

also, there was a canadian study done that tried to measure whether chiropractic was placebo or not... half of the people got real chiropractic adjustments and the other half got sham chiropractic adjustments. those who got real chiropractic treatment felt much better than the other group.

there just aren't enough studies on alternative forms of healthcare outside of medicine. the reason is because of the pharmaceutical lobby and how they pretty much dictate to the fda and nih where the funding for research goes. chiropractic and acupuncture don't use pharmaceutical drugs, so they don't really get much funding for research whatsoever... but you'll hear about people getting funded to research some unknown "syndrome" no one's ever heard of that pharmaceutical companies will eventually make a pill for and pump its ads through your tv commercials.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
I've never heard of acupuncture being a placebo treatment, however I have doubts about it being able to help with weight loss.

QFT. I had acupuncture after my wrist surgery, to deal with residual nerve damage and constant pain. I went in all skeptical, but when they put the first needle in my toe, the pain in my wrist moved 2" - it was freaky.

 

[GeneValgene]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Acupuncture and chiropracty are both bunk. There's no evidence that either is anything but placebo

as tenshodo13 pointed out, just go do a search on pubmed for studies. i don't think accupuncture is bunk for certain types of scenarios

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Arkitech
I've never heard of acupuncture being a placebo treatment, however I have doubts about it being able to help with weight loss.

i have a friend who's tried everything to quit smoking... gums, patches, hypnotism, medications, shock therapy, everything...

he was about to give up all hope, but then decided to go to a chiropractor. the chiropractor also did acupuncture... he told him that there wasn't any kind of adjusting he could do to make him stop smoking, but acupuncture might help. after 2 acupuncture treatments on his ear, he had no desire to smoke anymore... he hadn't smoked a cigarette since that day. he can even walk past someone smoking and not even have a craving. he can play with cigarettes in his hand and not even give a damn.