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Large Scale Hot Spot

boles

Senior member

I am rather new to large scale wireless deployment but i have been approached by a family friend to deploy a large wireless network on a horse ranch. It is mostly outdoors (couple buildings) and they want aproximatly a 1/2 mile radius around a central point or possibly more.

I have been doing some reading and i think a base station like this:
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/nema_enclosures_examples.php#dlink

with an antenna like:
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/hg2415u_pro.php

Would starting off with one of these antennas be better:?
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/sectorized_omni_array.php


I think this would be a good start as they want to start off small and expand over time. Anyone have any advice ?




 
Get a cisco access point and you're all set.

If you can mount the AP as close as you can to the anetenna.

-edit- and the higher the better. You can run the calculations for how high you need it mounted. search for "fresnel zone"
 
Get a cisco access point and you're all set.

what benifit is a cisco access point going to provide over products such as a D-Link? I know cisco equipment is overall better quality but in the beginning this network will only have MAYBE 10 people on it at one given time. I guess i am asking; Is cisco AP overkill ?



 
if you are going to do a "big boy" job then you will need "big boy" equipment. i would suggest doing it right the 1st time. save the dlink stuff for a home or home office enviroment. i would suggest going with Proxim wireless equipment. go to www.proxim.com they have case studies and information to help you find out what equipment you will need.

i setup a wireless network using proxim equipment at a large high school and they have been very pleased with the performance and reliablilty.
 
Originally posted by: blemoine
if you are going to do a "big boy" job then you will need "big boy" equipment. i would suggest doing it right the 1st time. save the dlink stuff for a home or home office enviroment. i would suggest going with Proxim wireless equipment. go to www.proxim.com they have case studies and information to help you find out what equipment you will need.

i setup a wireless network using proxim equipment at a large high school and they have been very pleased with the performance and reliablilty.

I did look through the Proxim website and found a lot of information that was very usefull. I understand your statment about the "big boy" equipment however i guess my feelings were that since the user base is so small is this really a BIG boy deployment. I know the range is large and "the power of the radio" is going to be a real limit in a something such as a D-Link so thats why i thought a base station with a 250mW - 1000mW WiFi Amplifier would overcome the limited radio power.

BTW, Thanks for the feedback!


 
Even if you go with a Cisco AP which can go up to 100mW, it will not make any difference if you have a consumer wireless card. Most consumer wireless cards that I know of only transmit at 30mW. So, in your case then you may be able to see the AP but the AP will not be able to see you.

Edit: I do not know if there is even a 802.11 signal amplifier. Even if there was I doubt it is allowed by FCC regulations.
 
Originally posted by: nightowl
Even if you go with a Cisco AP which can go up to 100mW, it will not make any difference if you have a consumer wireless card. Most consumer wireless cards that I know of only transmit at 30mW. So, in your case then you may be able to see the AP but the AP will not be able to see you.

Edit: I do not know if there is even a 802.11 signal amplifier. Even if there was I doubt it is allowed by FCC regulations.

receive sensitivity in the AP.

Don't use little boy toys for big boy jobs. Thats rule number 3 in networking.
 
Cisco CB21 goes over 30 mW. I haven't done power level testing in forever on one (should be getting the newest version/driver soon) but the ACU shows it capable of 100mW
 
Originally posted by: nightowl
Even if you go with a Cisco AP which can go up to 100mW, it will not make any difference if you have a consumer wireless card. Most consumer wireless cards that I know of only transmit at 30mW. So, in your case then you may be able to see the AP but the AP will not be able to see you.
It'll be seen just fine. With an iffy wireless connection you don't necessarily have to improve both ends. Improve one end (typically base station) with amplifier or higher gain antenna and the connection will get better. Of course improving both ends is even better, but even improving one end will gain results.

Originally posted by: nightowl
Edit: I do not know if there is even a 802.11 signal amplifier. Even if there was I doubt it is allowed by FCC regulations.

There are plenty of amplifiers on the market. The FCC regulations specify a certain wattage at the antenna. You'll have loss through the cabling and lightning filter and such, so in some cases you'd have to make up for that loss.

That's the theory, at least. I'd be willing to say that many WISPs are pushing above FCC regs. I've had a professional antenna installer tell me "everybody does that."***

For the OP... that large a coverage area will definately need a decent antenna. Are there any buildings/trees that may block coverage? If so, you may need to re-think where antenna goes, or at least compensate with a higher gain antenna or an amplifier. Normally that single omni antenna should suffice. The sector antenna array is the only way to get higher omnidirectional gain, but note that to get the most possible gain, you'd need one radio per sector, meaning (in this case) you'd need three APs.

As for the AP itself, consumer models usually put out 30-50mw while professional models put out up to 100mw (though I've found some that put out 200-300mw). While there are instances that the higher end equipment would be superior to the consumer level equipment, I don't think 10 users over a ½ mile radius can't be handled by a consumer level AP. I know someone who used to work for a WISP in Phoenix, AZ and they used consumer level APs everywhere with great success for multi-mile coverage areas. Their secret is good antennas (sector arrays for base stations) and minimized loss between AP and antenna (more in a bit).

The repair shop I worked for in CA ran a WISP with different equipment. APs were Orinoco/Lucent CORs and clients were RORs, both using Gold Cards with 100mw output. Our results weren't any better and in some cases were worse because of lower gain antennas and long cable runs, sometimes 100'+.

Minimized loss between AP and antenna... Your AP puts out 30-100mw of power. Your antenna does 11dbi gain (typical decent exterior omni). The more, the better... but everything between the antenna and the AP will give you a loss. Forgot the conversion, but every foot of cable loses X amount of signal, I think about 1dbi per 50 foot or so. Some cables lose less than others - typically WISPs will use LMR-400 for longer runs. Also, every connector between the antenna and AP will lose ½-1dbi. Lightning supressors (to protect expensive APs) will lose 1dbi. So, if you have an 11dbi antenna but you have a pigtail to convert AP antenna jack to N-type (standard for external antennas, amplifiers, lightning supressors) that's two connectors, then the lightning supressor, then the 100' cable run with two connectors, then the antenna... your 11dbi antenna is really a 3dbi antenna. It's not exactly those numbers, just a rough example.

If I had a large budget...
Three high-end APs with a sectorized omni array and one lightning supressor per AP. Also, perhaps an amplifier per AP just for good measure. That should get a signal a few miles away depending on height of the antenna. Warning, RIGHT BELOW the antenna may be a dead spot.

If I had a small budget...
One consumer AP with one omni antenna and no lightning supressor (consumer APs are cheap enough to replace, don't need the signal loss). The AP needs to be placed right under the antenna so that a short pigtail runs from the AP directly to the antenna. If the AP will be outdoors on a mast, put it in a small waterproof box and run PoE to it. For such a small coverage area, going 10' above a single story building would suffice. Radio Shack sells 10' masts for around $15, plus has matching cheap tripods so you don't have to use guy wires. These are marketed for TV antennas but work fine for wireless gear. This makes for a functional $200 hotspot. If all else fails, you can get a 1W amp for $200, making this now a $400 hotspot that will outperform more expensive setups that don't have amps.

***If you are pushing more wattage than the FCC allows... the thing is that this horse ranch is probably not near any other wireless networks and unless someone files a complaint, the FCC will not care. I'm not saying this in a "break the law and steal a car" way. I'm saying this in a "you're driving through Texas countryside and everyone else is going 20 miles over the posted speed limit" way.
 
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