Landmines not our problem?

AnnaCruz

Junior Member
Apr 12, 2005
3
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Mines kill or injure thousands of people every year. And they rob whole communities of their livelihoods. Now, a UN public service announcement cannot get enough air time because the media thought it would ?upset? too many people. See MSNBC article.

Please take thirty seconds out of your life and watch this video. /end rant


 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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The media didn't seem to be upset when Princess Diana was going around the world educating people on the dangers of old landmines.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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The only people "upset" by the spot would likely be the uber-patriots so blinded by jingoistic sentiment they feel the U.S. can do no wrong. Landmines are as much our problem as they are everyone else's on the planet. Only our administration refused to sign-on to the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty. Non-signatories to the treaty include such notable a**holes as North Korea, China, Cuba, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. At least we're keeping good company these days.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
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We didn't plant any of the mines, why should we feel guilty for not signing the mine ban treaty? You can thank CLINTON for that one too, btw.
 

Yellow Dog

Banned
Apr 1, 2005
256
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Originally posted by: ntdz
We didn't plant any of the mines, why should we feel guilty for not signing the mine ban treaty? You can thank CLINTON for that one too, btw.

There are a lot of things we "didn't do" yet we sure as hell don't hesitate to stick our nose into those.

The truth is that landmines are not a big problem in oil rich countries.
 

Yo Ma Ma

Lifer
Jan 21, 2000
11,635
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Originally posted by: AnnaCruz
Mines kill or injure thousands of people every year. And they rob whole communities of their livelihoods. Now, a UN public service announcement cannot get enough air time because the media thought it would ?upset? too many people. See MSNBC article.

Please take thirty seconds out of your life and watch this video. /end rant
Well personally yes I do care, I don't like to see people suffer unnecessarily.

The UN ad doesn't seem that great to me (makes its point then it just seems to drag out the obvious), but even if you do like it a lot, clearly it has failed in the sense that it won't even make it to air now, so maybe they need to think up another one.
 

Jon855

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2005
1,214
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I think we should fly up a F-4 torando and drop cluster bombs over the mined areas and that should take care of a lot of em don;t ya think?
 

chrisms

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2003
6,615
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We get involved, everyone hates us. We don't get involved, everyone hates us. Fsck the rest of the world.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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Originally posted by: Jon855
I think we should fly up a F-4 torando and drop cluster bombs over the mined areas and that should take care of a lot of em don;t ya think?
.... no... and cluster bombs have their own problem of not exploding on impact but exploding when someone picks them up, so no, thats not a way of solving the problem


and thanks AnnaCruz for bringing this to the forum
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
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The US cleans up more mines than any other country. Actually the US is pretty much the only country that spends money on cleaning up other countries land mines. Just because we refuse to ban weapons, doesnt mean we dont care. We clean up ours and the rest of the worlds. Its just a slow tedious process.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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Originally posted by: digitalsm
The US cleans up more mines than any other country. Actually the US is pretty much the only country that spends money on cleaning up other countries land mines. Just because we refuse to ban weapons, doesnt mean we dont care. We clean up ours and the rest of the worlds. Its just a slow tedious process.

what, dont read much do you?
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,157
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Ok, let me understand the situation.

The United States military no longer uses persistant antipersonnel mines so any AP mines the US military emplaces will render themselves inert in short order (might still have non-persistant mines in inventory, don't know). The only persistant mines the US military uses are antivehicle mines, which are only a small threat to people and are at the very least much more easily detected.

Ok, so there are 80 countries that are affected in some way by landmines. According to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines (ICBL), the worst countries are Afghanistan (not US fault), Angola (not US fault), Burundi (not US fault), Bosnia & Herzegovina (not US fault - in fact, we've helped clean up many mines in that area over the last 10 years), Cambodia (not US fault), Chechnya (not US fault), Colombia (not US fault), Iraq (not US fault), Nepal (not US fault) and Sri Lanka (not US fault). Other problem countries are Myanmar (Burma) (not US fault), India (not US fault) or Pakistan (not US fault).

Hmm, don't even see Vietnam on the top countries, and they ran us out anyway. How is the US lack of signing contributing to the global problem exactly?

Oh, wait, allow me to quote the ICBL on the subject of the United States of America (I've highlighted several areas):
The Bush Administration announced the results of a two-and-one-half year policy review on 27 February 2004, abandoning the objective of joining the Mine Ban Treaty eventually and declaring its intent to retain antipersonnel mines indefinitely. The US apparently did not use antipersonnel mines in Yugoslavia (Kosovo) in 1999, or in Afghanistan since October 2001, or in Iraq since March 2003. It reserved the right to use antipersonnel mines during each of these conflicts, and deployed mines to the region at least in the cases of Kosovo and Iraq. Landmine Monitor has identified 74 mine casualties among US military personnel between 2001 and 2003.

US mine action funding totaled $421.4 million between fiscal years 1999 and 2003, the largest total for any government. In addition, the State Department reports that in the last five years several hundred thousand US citizens have contributed more than $14 million to mine action programs around the world. The Department of Defense spent over $250 million from 1999-2003 to identify and field alternatives for landmines. The RADAM program, which would have combined existing antipersonnel and antivehicle mines into a new ?mixed system,? was cancelled in 2002. The Pentagon reported in May 2002 that it ?will not be able to meet? the 2006 target date to develop and field alternatives to antipersonnel mines.

Congress has extended the 1992 legislative moratorium on export of antipersonnel mines several times, most recently until 23 October 2008. US antipersonnel mines stockpiled in Italy, Norway, and Spain were removed to comply with their Mine Ban Treaty obligations. The US cleared its protective minefields at the Guantanamo Bay naval base in Cuba in 1999, and now claims not to maintain minefields anywhere in the world. However, protective minefields from the Soviet era are incorporated into the perimeter defense at locations US forces occupy in Afghanistan. The US ratified CCW Amended Protocol II in May 1999.

Who needs to read, Czar?
 

murban135

Platinum Member
Apr 7, 2003
2,747
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AndrewR is exactly right. We are leaders in the militarily responsible use of land mines. Since our armed forces are at times outnumbered or need to prevent the enemy from using certain areas, we need to reserve the right to use land mines.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
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I thought US military doesn't use landmines any more - the've got the claymore mines that are trigger/ trip wire activated
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
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I thought US military doesn't use landmines any more - the've got the claymore mines that are trigger/ trip wire activated
The Army's inventory of and doctrine with respect to use of landmines is already well beyond the restrictions outlined in the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty. We are compliant with and above the standards outlined in that document.

We do not sign such treaties because there is no way to enforce these treaties...if our nation goes to war with another nation that either is not compliant with or fails to recognize this treaty, are we just going to complain to the UN and say "they aren't playing fair so they forfeit."

The United States has cleaned up millions of mines in the Balkans...we also no longer utilize certain anti-personnel mines that are considered inhumane (as if putting holes in someone with a .50cal or SAW is humane, but that's beside the point).

 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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which is completely false
The United States may not be the only nation out there cleaning up landmines in former war torn nations, but we have taken great strides to leading such efforts or providing the equipment, training and resources required to help other nations in similar efforts.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
which is completely false
The United States may not be the only nation out there cleaning up landmines in former war torn nations, but we have taken great strides to leading such efforts or providing the equipment, training and resources required to help other nations in similar efforts.

yes, along with many many other nations
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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If we are going to destroy country's with instruments of destruction we should have at least the ingerity to remove them, once we leave.

If anyone hasn't looked at this... The future replacement for landmines...

http://www.metalstorm.com
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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Land mines are only a problem where idiots have chosen to use them or are still actively deploying them. They still find old landmines in South Korea.

There are lots of things that can kill you. Terrorists can chop off your head. You can be shot by enemy forces and you can be blown up by landmines. In many countries where there is guerrilla war fare one side clears an area of landmines so it can be farmed and then they come back one night and plant more landmines and the farmer or some workers get blown to hell the next day.

I cant say I am for the use of landmines, or even for war for that matter. But I dont see them going away as long as there is evil in the world.
 

NJDevil

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
952
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Originally posted by: MidasKnight
Originally posted by: skyking
Originally posted by: ntdz
We didn't plant any of the mines, why should we feel guilty for not signing the mine ban treaty? You can thank CLINTON for that one too, btw.
"We" planted plenty of mines in Viet Nam


So did the North Viet Cong for that matter....


Ahhh, that's not the point. Ntdz said we did, the other guy said we did, so we do have some responsibility. Just because the north vietnamese did it, we're free from any responsibility?