Lakota Indians Withdraw from Treaties

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
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I searched, but maybe I did it poorly-- so if this is a repost, I apologize.

WASHINGTON ? The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.

A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the U.S., some of them more than 150 years old.

The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.

Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.

The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said.

The treaties signed with the U.S. were merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists said.

Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said.

"This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution,'' which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said.

"It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent,'' said Means.

The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence ? an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.

Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row,'' Means said.

One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples ? despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws.

"We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children,'' Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.

The U.S. "annexation'' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people,'' said Means.

Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.

Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.

Link

I wonder if this will make any kind of news or if this is just for publicity. It'd be nice if this amounted to anything, since it's kind of a big middle finger to our federal government. Could we see a resurgence of the Indian Wars?
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21


I wonder if this will make any kind of news or if this is just for publicity. It'd be nice if this amounted to anything, since it's kind of a big middle finger to our federal government. Could we see a resurgence of the Indian Wars?

Cool. Let's put the 2nd amendment to the test.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,788
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Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
I wonder if this will make any kind of news or if this is just for publicity. It'd be nice if this amounted to anything, since it's kind of a big middle finger to our federal government. Could we see a resurgence of the Indian Wars?

Not Indian wars my fellow, have you see what happened in Iraq? The fear is that chaos is brewing. Who needs one faction VS another when it can be divided into so many numerous localities?

With Washington so distant from its people and approved by so few, and poverty on the rise and our status in the world in decline there is only one natural course to follow and this is but a piece of many pieces which all fit together to herald some very troubling times.

This story alone is nothing, but in the next five years it will not be alone. Just a drop in the ocean.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
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I really don't see this as anything more than symbolic. Unless they try to back it up with force, it won't amount to anything unfortunately. Otherwise the US will simply use the current law enforcement apparatus in place to continue business as usual, collecting taxes, etc.
 

Saint Michael

Golden Member
Aug 4, 2007
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Legally within their rights? There are people who take, and people who give. We take. Sucks for people who don't like it, but those with power control everything, just the way it is.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
I wonder if this will make any kind of news or if this is just for publicity. It'd be nice if this amounted to anything, since it's kind of a big middle finger to our federal government. Could we see a resurgence of the Indian Wars?

Not Indian wars my fellow, have you see what happened in Iraq? The fear is that chaos is brewing. Who needs one faction VS another when it can be divided into so many numerous localities?

With Washington so distant from its people and approved by so few, and poverty on the rise and our status in the world in decline there is only one natural course to follow and this is but a piece of many pieces which all fit together to herald some very troubling times.

This story alone is nothing, but in the next five years it will not be alone. Just a drop in the ocean.

Amazing.

When I posted this years ago I was labled all kinds of names and still get blasted.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
This is very interesting. I visited a Native American reservation in Nebraska just back in September... it did have a feeling of visiting someone else's society. It's hard to imagine this not becoming a major situation if the Lokota stick to this, since it would seem Washington would not consider accepting it.

I think I like the idea of the native people having sovereign status.

I wonder how much the US public will sympathize with them and want the US government to allow this. This could become Bush's Waco...
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
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0
We need to build a wall around thier lands to keep illegal indians from invading the rest of the US and taking out jobs.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
I wonder if this will make any kind of news or if this is just for publicity. It'd be nice if this amounted to anything, since it's kind of a big middle finger to our federal government. Could we see a resurgence of the Indian Wars?

Not Indian wars my fellow, have you see what happened in Iraq? The fear is that chaos is brewing. Who needs one faction VS another when it can be divided into so many numerous localities?

With Washington so distant from its people and approved by so few, and poverty on the rise and our status in the world in decline there is only one natural course to follow and this is but a piece of many pieces which all fit together to herald some very troubling times.

This story alone is nothing, but in the next five years it will not be alone. Just a drop in the ocean.
LOL.. ok man, your fantasies about revolution have me guessing that you've gone off your rocker a bit.

dude, wake up!
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Craig234
I wonder how much the US public will sympathize with them and want the US government to allow this. This could become Bush's Waco...
Why do I get the impression from your tone that you'd be happy with that outcome?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Craig234
I wonder how much the US public will sympathize with them and want the US government to allow this. This could become Bush's Waco...
Why do I get the impression from your tone that you'd be happy with that outcome?

Because you're so partisan; and perhaps projecting, perhaps simply failing to understand my positions.

For the record, I do not want to see that happen.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: Craig234
I wonder how much the US public will sympathize with them and want the US government to allow this. This could become Bush's Waco...
Why do I get the impression from your tone that you'd be happy with that outcome?

Because you're so partisan; and perhaps projecting, perhaps simply failing to understand my positions.

For the record, I do not want to see that happen.
ok, good. that's all you had to say. you really did seem giddy at the notion...

As for being "too partisan," I think you need to be reminded that I plan to vote Democrat if Obama wins the nomination, so I'm not quite sure the "partisan" label fits...

DOH!
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
We need to build a wall around thier lands to keep illegal indians from invading the rest of the US and taking out jobs.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read on this board; a tall order to be sure.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
3
0
I find it interesting that the article seems to suggest they have a legitimate legal standing. If they do, a judge down the line is eventually going to have to ignore the law and rule against them for no other reason than the U.S. government refuses to let that happen. This makes me think of all those Indian-empathizing films and T.V. shows we've seen over the years, how we wronged them so badly and stole their land, but this shows that if given the chance we'd do it all over again.

The fact that their life expectancy is 44 really disturbs me. In the end they can go fuck themselves because I was born here, I live here, and I am just as "native" as they are.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,961
278
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Sweet, if the treatise is null then the local governments can sieze their lands and close their casinoes. Take that, red man!
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: MadRat
Sweet, if the treatise is null then the local governments can sieze their lands and close their casinoes. Take that, red man!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the treaties meant to end the hostilities between the US gov't and the indian tribes? In return for a ceasefire and suzerainty the indians would be allowed local sovereignty over their respective territories.

In essence, the Lakotas said they don't want to be "vassals" to the US anymore, and they declared themselves completely sovereign.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
We need to build a wall around thier lands to keep illegal indians from invading the rest of the US and taking out jobs.

That's one of the dumbest things I've read on this board; a tall order to be sure.

I think he was speaking tongue in cheek, for whatever reason. I don't see any point to the comment, other than the idea that simply an allusion to illegal Mexicans is 'humorous'.
 

Saint Michael

Golden Member
Aug 4, 2007
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Originally posted by: Farang
I find it interesting that the article seems to suggest they have a legitimate legal standing. If they do, a judge down the line is eventually going to have to ignore the law and rule against them for no other reason than the U.S. government refuses to let that happen. This makes me think of all those Indian-empathizing films and T.V. shows we've seen over the years, how we wronged them so badly and stole their land, but this shows that if given the chance we'd do it all over again.

The fact that their life expectancy is 44 really disturbs me. In the end they can go fuck themselves because I was born here, I live here, and I am just as "native" as they are.

What you mean we paleface? Seriously, I may be white, but my ancestors came here way after Indians were getting fucked over by Americans. More to the point, nobody alive today has wronged the Indians. Feeling guilty over something somebody else did is absurd, be they your ancestors or anybody else.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,913
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Saint Michel you misunderstood me and my point completely. I agree with you in the last sentence there.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: shinerburke
I'm too lazy to repost what I put in this thread so enjoy the link. :)

Enjoy? It's hard not to conclude some bullets would be well used on some people there, idiots calling for 'genocide', saying maybe it's ok if there are no gays there, and such.

You didn't say your name there?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,700
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
We need to build a wall around thier lands to keep illegal indians from invading the rest of the US and taking out jobs.
You know, PJ, you're just not thinking big enough here.

I say we plant a piece of toast with the image of Baby Jesus in a drive-through church on the outskirts of Lincoln, Nebraska, convince all our white fundies it's a sign of the Apocalypse and that they all must move in or near there, then suddenly give the Lakota their sovereingity plus tons of small arms and ammo as reparations, and thenand only then wall off the whole area and film the ensuing holy war as a Fox reality show. ;)

Must haves in the casting for this epic would be Nebor, BobberFett, Jerry Falwell, Russell Means, and the actor who played Tonto on the Lone Ranger (or his corpse), with Rush Limbaugh going cold turkey from Oxycontin in the role of the Great White Father.

Everyone but Nebor and Tonto die horrible, horrible deaths. Miraculously, these two develop a quixotic attraction to each other, and walk off into the sunset, arm in arm.

The end. ;) :p :laugh:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Originally posted by: Farang
I find it interesting that the article seems to suggest they have a legitimate legal standing. If they do, a judge down the line is eventually going to have to ignore the law and rule against them for no other reason than the U.S. government refuses to let that happen. This makes me think of all those Indian-empathizing films and T.V. shows we've seen over the years, how we wronged them so badly and stole their land, but this shows that if given the chance we'd do it all over again.

The fact that their life expectancy is 44 really disturbs me. In the end they can go fuck themselves because I was born here, I live here, and I am just as "native" as they are.

What you mean we paleface? Seriously, I may be white, but my ancestors came here way after Indians were getting fucked over by Americans. More to the point, nobody alive today has wronged the Indians. Feeling guilty over something somebody else did is absurd, be they your ancestors or anybody else.

Feeling guilty over the fact that the people today are in a worse situation for the reason of past wrongs does make sense. It's right to try to get them to more equal footing IMO.
 

Saint Michael

Golden Member
Aug 4, 2007
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Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Originally posted by: Farang
I find it interesting that the article seems to suggest they have a legitimate legal standing. If they do, a judge down the line is eventually going to have to ignore the law and rule against them for no other reason than the U.S. government refuses to let that happen. This makes me think of all those Indian-empathizing films and T.V. shows we've seen over the years, how we wronged them so badly and stole their land, but this shows that if given the chance we'd do it all over again.

The fact that their life expectancy is 44 really disturbs me. In the end they can go fuck themselves because I was born here, I live here, and I am just as "native" as they are.

What you mean we paleface? Seriously, I may be white, but my ancestors came here way after Indians were getting fucked over by Americans. More to the point, nobody alive today has wronged the Indians. Feeling guilty over something somebody else did is absurd, be they your ancestors or anybody else.

Feeling guilty over the fact that the people today are in a worse situation for the reason of past wrongs does make sense. It's right to try to get them to more equal footing IMO.

I see no reason to feel guilty over something I had no hand in. In fact, I challenge you to present some sort of moral justification for me to feel guilty over any such thing.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
1
0
Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Originally posted by: Farang
I find it interesting that the article seems to suggest they have a legitimate legal standing. If they do, a judge down the line is eventually going to have to ignore the law and rule against them for no other reason than the U.S. government refuses to let that happen. This makes me think of all those Indian-empathizing films and T.V. shows we've seen over the years, how we wronged them so badly and stole their land, but this shows that if given the chance we'd do it all over again.

The fact that their life expectancy is 44 really disturbs me. In the end they can go fuck themselves because I was born here, I live here, and I am just as "native" as they are.

What you mean we paleface? Seriously, I may be white, but my ancestors came here way after Indians were getting fucked over by Americans. More to the point, nobody alive today has wronged the Indians. Feeling guilty over something somebody else did is absurd, be they your ancestors or anybody else.

Feeling guilty over the fact that the people today are in a worse situation for the reason of past wrongs does make sense. It's right to try to get them to more equal footing IMO.

I see no reason to feel guilty over something I had no hand in. In fact, I challenge you to present some sort of moral justification for me to feel guilty over any such thing.

You shouldn't feel guilty, but as a human being you should feel empathetic.