Lagunitas falls to corrupt corporatism

[soulcougher73]

Lagunitas - Over rated
Whenever I make the mistake of buying some I end up regretting it.

This

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Sierra is probably the only long-standing craft company that has maintained it's general style and quality--strong hop profile, certainly--and all within classic styles that retain their central identity, and without watering down and cheapening up their recipe as have all the other brewers that have been around with them.

Ummm, what? That's just ridiculous. Just offhand, Stone, Deschutes and Rogue leap to mind, and I could probably come up with 50 more examples if I put any effort into it at all. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Sierra Nevada, but saying that they're the only long-standing brewer that's maintained a high level of quality is certifiably insane.

And I don't get the hate for Lagunitas' IPA in this thread. Lagunitas makes a very good, very approachable IPA, that isn't the hop bomb that a lot of other (primarily Oregonian) IPAs try to be. Good balance, nice sweetness, a real easy-drinking beer that still has flavor. It's not my favorite IPA in the world, but I wouldn't call it bad by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[pauldun170]

I don't want to say I hate "Lagunitas" and I understand that a lot of people like it. In my experience, mostly by people who start off their recommendation with the word "Bro" and try really hard to refer to it as "craft beer". (just kidding)

When I started venturing into the deep corners of my local beverage center and started hitting up all the non mainstream beers, there were a few Lagunitas that I thought were ok.
As time went on, with each subsequent purchase they just seemed to get worse and worse. For awhile I had a general rule to never buy anything twice (to make sure I tried everything under the sun and not get locked in)
I had to drop Lagunitas off my list entirely after trying a huge chunck of their catalog. Even stuff that i liked a few years ago taste like crap to me today.
I almost swore off all IPA's because of them.
(Dogfish was nice enough to supply me with a 120 Minute IPA to reintroduce me to the IPA world)

Damn now I want a beer

 

[andylawcc]

Magee himself has been at the center of such disputes before. In 2013, Lagunitas dropped any future use of the term “420,” slang for marijuana, on its label after Sweetwater Brewing Co. of Atlanta noted it had a pale ale on the market with the same name.

A year earlier, Magee was successful in getting Knee Deep Brewing Co. in Placer County to drop the label design of its IPA beer because it resembled Lagunitas. Knee Deep disputed the claim and changed the design and the name to “Batch 138” after Magee agreed to pay the cost of the change.

seems like the owner of Lagunita just have strong belief, and I admire that.
There ARE some resemblance between Lag's and SN's design of the 3 letter IPA. However, to bring this to court? Seems a bit overreached.

On the other topic: I like SN the brand, but there is no SN beer that I like, despite their HUGE portfolio. well, except the Xmas Celebration IPA.
EDIT: sorry, confused SN with Sam Adams. I like most SN's range.

Lagunita's: I like them, but kinda pricy and they get lost in the sea of micro/craft brew.

 

[zinfamous]

Ummm, what? That's just ridiculous. Just offhand, Stone, Deschutes and Rogue leap to mind, and I could probably come up with 50 more examples if I put any effort into it at all. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Sierra Nevada, but saying that they're the only long-standing brewer that's maintained a high level of quality is certifiably insane.

And I don't get the hate for Lagunitas' IPA in this thread. Lagunitas makes a very good, very approachable IPA, that isn't the hop bomb that a lot of other (primarily Oregonian) IPAs try to be. Good balance, nice sweetness, a real easy-drinking beer that still has flavor. It's not my favorite IPA in the world, but I wouldn't call it bad by any stretch of the imagination.

I should clarify--SN has had far wider distribution than pretty much any of those (Rogue and especially Stone) for a very long time, while maintaining the same level of quality throughout.

SN has been coast to coast for more than 20 years now. At that time, you could only find a few--very few--Rogue styles in niche stores east of the Mississippi. Stone has only very recently penetrated those markets, and you still aren't going to be finding them in Kroger in the southeast as far as I have seen. Deadguy has pretty much been a staple in a lot of those markets for some years now, though.

Rogue, Deshutes, Stone, all those others are still good. What I meant to say is that from what I have seen, only Sierra Nevada has managed to grow as much as it has (it is practically Sam Adams size, but with essentially no marketing tomfoolery. certainly not TV wise) and still as good as they always were. I still wouldn't say that Rogue and Stone are as widely distributed as SN.

One of my favorites, Red Hook, went to the shitter about 10+ years ago, the larger they got. I don't think New Belgium is quite there, yet; but I see it in their new "Net 2.0" type packaging. Same shit that signaled the end of RedHook.

 

[ControlD]

One of my favorites, Red Hook, went to the shitter about 10+ years ago, the larger they got. I don't think New Belgium is quite there, yet; but I see it in their new "Net 2.0" type packaging. Same shit that signaled the end of RedHook.

That would truly be a shame. I think I would give my left nut to get my hands on a vial of Fat Tire yeast. Then I could just make my own and not worry about their quality dropping. Rogue can turn into poo as far as I'm concerned, but leave my Fat Tire alone.

 

[Anubis]

ive never heard of Lagunitas before this post

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

That's nothing. Local Seattle brewery Elysian -- which produces one beer with a tagline on the label reading "Corporate Beer Still Sucks!" -- just sold out to Anheuser-Busch.

Integrity. No can haz.

 

[andylawcc]

That's nothing. Local Seattle brewery Elysian -- which produces one beer with a tagline on the label reading "Corporate Beer Still Sucks!" -- just sold out to Anheuser-Busch.

ouch.

 

[preslove]

Ummm, what? That's just ridiculous. Just offhand, Stone, Deschutes and Rogue leap to mind, and I could probably come up with 50 more examples if I put any effort into it at all.

Uh... Sierra Nevada probably sells more volume than the 3 breweries you listed, combined. They're only behind Sam Adams in production. And, whereas Sam Adams doesn't make a quality brew other than Boston Lager, SN's portfolio is excellent from top to bottom.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Uh... Sierra Nevada probably sells more volume than the 3 breweries you listed, combined. They're only behind Sam Adams in production. And, whereas Sam Adams doesn't make a quality brew other than Boston Lager, SN's portfolio is excellent from top to bottom.

Yes, zin clarified that in his follow-up post. But his initial statement didn't offer any argument about size, merely that Sierra Nevada was the only craft brewery that retained its quality. Absent the discussion point "of a certain size," that's a ludicrous argument to make, which was my point of contention. Factoring in growth and overall size of the operation, it is impressive how Sierra Nevada has maintained its quality while other craft breweries have seen marked dips in quality (New Belgium in particular).

 

[zinfamous]

Uh... Sierra Nevada probably sells more volume than the 3 breweries you listed, combined. They're only behind Sam Adams in production. And, whereas Sam Adams doesn't make a quality brew other than Boston Lager, SN's portfolio is excellent from top to bottom.

I like some of Sam Adam's limited releases. One that I haven't seen in several years--a Honey Porter--was delicious. No idea if they still make that.

They actually haven't changed that much either. I only compared them in size but didn't talk about quality because most of their styles are very samey to me--still, they seem to retain a lot of their original character, despite spending absurd amounts of money on marketing (always a marker of sub-par quality, ime)

Yes, zin clarified that in his follow-up post. But his initial statement didn't offer any argument about size, merely that Sierra Nevada was the only craft brewery that retained its quality. Absent the discussion point "of a certain size," that's a ludicrous argument to make, which was my point of contention. Factoring in growth and overall size of the operation, it is impressive how Sierra Nevada has maintained its quality while other craft breweries have seen marked dips in quality (New Belgium in particular).

well, I made the same argument in the "what are you drinking tonight thread some weeks ago, re: Sierra Nevada." I mentioned distribution there, so I just left it out in my first post here. It was like "size is implied, bro." It's not my fault if you don't read all of my posts and stay current!

 

[norseamd]

One of my favorites, Red Hook, went to the shitter about 10+ years ago, the larger they got. I don't think New Belgium is quite there, yet; but I see it in their new "Net 2.0" type packaging. Same shit that signaled the end of RedHook.

“Everything we do is brand. You get to signal your intent with thousands of tiny decisions you make. Let’s make those decisions congruent with our values."

http://boulderideas.com/blog/2014/08/27/my-new-crush-kim-jordan-of-new-belgium-and-her-wisdom/

New Belgium Brewing is revealing a whole new look and feel in 2014 with a portfolio-wide packaging refresh due to hit markets in January. The new design reimagines New Belgium’s iconic and playful watercolor imagery from the past 22 years through a modern lens. The artwork will progress many of the themes celebrated in New Belgium’s labels over the years, which have been hand-painted by founder Kim Jordan’s neighbor, Ann Fitch, since the brewery’s beginnings.

This colorful, handcrafted look has been with us since our inception and the new design brings the portfolio together in a fresh and contemporary way. We know that while the watercolors will always be part of the New Belgium story, we think the new designs will delight our long time fans while also inviting new folks into the fold.
The new design, created by Hatch Design of San Francisco, featuring illustration by artist Leah Giberson, will appear on all brands and packages.

While the new look is a cleaner and more easily seen at a distance, the art is anything but cookie cutter in that every image starts as a photo and is repainted by hand.

Much of the line - Fat Tire, Ranger - is simply a reimagining of our original themes.

In line with our Belgian-beer roots, we're a brewery and culture of innovation. We've done that with our beer portfolio for more than two decades, and it felt right to evolve our look as we've evolved our beers. While we were doing that, Ann Fitch announced that she was retiring from commercial production. In the end it was a happy circumstance and a win-win for all parties in that regard.

http://www.newbelgium.com/Home/new-belgium-new-packaging-same-suds-new-duds.aspx

 

[natto fire]

Uh... Sierra Nevada probably sells more volume than the 3 breweries you listed, combined. They're only behind Sam Adams in production. And, whereas Sam Adams doesn't make a quality brew other than Boston Lager, SN's portfolio is excellent from top to bottom.

Hey now, their Octoberfest is pretty good too. Solid post otherwise. I hope Bell's ends up in SN's shoes someday and the piss beer market shrinks.

 

[marincounty]

I don't like misleading advertising. Like Lagunitas is actually made in Petaluma and Chicago? It's not made in Lagunitas.

 

[zerocool84]

I actually just had some Lagunitas IPA, Stone IPA and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale last night.

I really liked the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I'm not much into IPA's since they are mostly just stuffed to the brim with hops but I liked the Stone IPA more than Lagunitas.

 

[TallBill]

Ovila quad by SN is amazing

 

[preslove]

Yeah, guys, I was being a bit hyperbolic with Sam Adams they're just really hit or miss. That winter brew crap is awful, their summer wheat is just bad, and all the ones with honey or cherry or whatever flavoring is not just gross. I drink a lot of boston lager because it's an excellent lager and $7.99 at my corner convenience store.

Yes, zin clarified that in his follow-up post. But his initial statement didn't offer any argument about size, merely that Sierra Nevada was the only craft brewery that retained its quality. Absent the discussion point "of a certain size," that's a ludicrous argument to make, which was my point of contention. Factoring in growth and overall size of the operation, it is impressive how Sierra Nevada has maintained its quality while other craft breweries have seen marked dips in quality (New Belgium in particular).

I found his first statement pretty clear, and anyone who knows the beer market understands there are only so many really big players like Sam Adams and Sierra. SN is pretty untouchable when you consider how big their distribution is and how wide of a beer profile they have and how consistently it's good. Their heffeweiz style wheat is great, their porter is the best at its price point, Torpedo is good.

Any beer they make is going to at least be good, and considering the wide variety and their sales volume, they don't really have a peer.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah, guys, I was being a bit hyperbolic with Sam Adams they're just really hit or miss. That winter brew crap is awful, their summer wheat is just bad, and all the ones with honey or cherry or whatever flavoring is not just gross. I drink a lot of boston lager because it's an excellent lager and $7.99 at my corner convenience store.

If it's still around somewhere, you should try SA's Honey Porter. I generally don't like honey beers--I like sweet when it comes to Belgians and strong ales and browns, things like that. But this doesn't have what I'd call a honey profile--I consider it their version of a Baltic Porter--my favorite style--and it was quite good. Been at least 7 years since I've seen it, though. :/

OH right, another brewer that totally crapped the bed: Pyramid. what the hell is wrong wtih those guys? I have the fortune/misfortune to have a friend that worked with them for a few years, so it was endless free cases of Pyramid beer for that time--not complaining, really. free beer. It could be Pabst and I would be happy. Thing is, I like Pyramid before that time. The more we went from style to style, and a bit too much of all of it, the more I realized it is all the same profile in all of their beers: week malt; strong water finish. That's it. Every one of their beers.

I dunno, I recall them being quite good at one point--Snow Cap really hit the spot one winter in Chicago, about 4 years before I reconsidered my opinion--but now I have nothing but unpleasant memories of Snow Cap...and everything Pyramid

well, OK--I'd still drink it for free.

For free.

Though, I would actually pay for a Budweiser over Pyramid.