Kyrsten Sinema finally comes out of the closet just in time to weaken the historical Democratic majority in the Senate

Page 15 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
I don't think anybody arguing for anti-authoritarian housing laws doesn't agree that wealth inequality is an issue for a lot of poverty.

That's why it's pretty fucking crazy when housing authoritarians want to pretend that the price of necessary things, including housing, have nothing to do with a poverty either though.

I mean that is perverse.

It's also very perverse to watch somebody consistently say that people should live a certain way and completely ignore the millions that are clamoring for more affordable housing near cities where they actually want to live.

And nobody proposing more sensible housing laws says there shouldn't be rural areas. But the rural authoritarians want to impose their way of living unto everybody else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brainonska511

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
So to be clear you are saying the most market desirable places on earth are not really desirable but a product of some larger mental illness? Lol.

Again this is your authoritarian nature. It’s okay if people want to live differently than you and you need to accept that.
If by mental illness you mean the lack of forethought endemic in our system because of the nature of our system, than yes, all those places are desirable because of mental illness. If you are saying I believe that people are mentally ill because they want to live where the best and most plentiful job are to be had, and thus the best advertised lifestyles exist, then no, that is just what you would expect. And because I believe that a better system would produce much more desirable lifestyles that those in the cities today causing many, and especially those with children to move from them, to the benefit of all does not make me an authoritarian. You and I are exactly the same. You want laws to change according to your view as to what is good for people and I want the same but with different laws to change. You want to work with what is. I want something completely different. You and I advocate different things.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
I don't think anybody arguing for anti-authoritarian housing laws doesn't agree that wealth inequality is an issue for a lot of poverty.

That's why it's pretty fucking crazy when housing authoritarians want to pretend that the price of necessary things, including housing, have nothing to do with a poverty either though.

I mean that is perverse.

It's also very perverse to watch somebody consistently say that people should live a certain way and completely ignore the millions that are clamoring for more affordable housing near cities where they actually want to live.

And nobody proposing more sensible housing laws says there shouldn't be rural areas. But the rural authoritarians want to impose their way of living unto everybody else.
You're the one arguing that we should impose your view of how others should live. Get a mirror.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
The houses being built now are out of reach of the homeless and it ain't the price of the land; it's a lack of income.
We are also making food but yet some people don't get enough to eat.

You seem to ignore the basic law of supply and demand. There is an undeniable housing shortage this is a fact. Why do you refuse to acknowledge reality in fact because you want to force your way of life on everybody else?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
You're the one arguing that we should impose your view of how others should live. Get a mirror.
How am I forcing my way of life on anybody? Did I say there should not be rural areas or nature or suburban housing?

Quote me on that.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
I wonder who's being more honest here the person who thinks the cost of something has nothing to do with its affordability, or the person who acknowledges reality. That cost is a factor and supply and demand are actual things.

Gee. I wonder.

This is why I've always said nimby's are on both sides of the aisle. It's really ironic seeing the small government conservatives being all about rules when it comes to restricting housing, and it's equally funny to see liberals who are all about creating equity completely against any other way of life besides theirs. Even though that's not what anybody is proposing.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
I wonder who's being more honest here the person who thinks the cost of something has nothing to do with its affordability, or the person who acknowledges reality. That cost is a factor and supply and demand are actual things.

Gee. I wonder.

This is why I've always said nimby's are on both sides of the aisle. It's really ironic seeing the small government conservatives being all about rules when it comes to restricting housing, and it's equally funny to see liberals who are all about creating equity completely against any other way of life besides theirs. Even though that's not what anybody is proposing.
Anytime you want to have a discussion, let me know. If you are going to insist on writing my positions for me, have at it but don't expect me to play along.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
Anytime you want to have a discussion, let me know. If you are going to insist on writing my positions for me, have at it but don't expect me to play along.

I quoted you before. I am just using your own words

When the voters of a community choose to tell greedy speculators and developers to go pound sand, the developers go bribe legislators in other districts to vote against the interests of the community that rejected their sweet nothings. This isn't democracy in action; it is corruption.

Your claim that nimbyism is the cause of a humanitarian crisis, offered without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. The cause of the homelessness crisis is the hyper-concentration of income.

You state the cause of homelessness (and I should add home poor people living and/or living in sub par conditions, it's not just homelessness), is only due to wealth inequality, dismissing the cost of housing, which is driven up by NIMBY's.

Your own words. Care to rephrase your statement?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
And lack of income due to hording by the rich.

so you think the entire lack of housing supply is by the rich hoarding homes? Like they just collect them and let them collect dust? Please explain what exactly you are talking about.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
so you think the entire lack of housing supply is by the rich hoarding homes? Like they just collect them and let them collect dust? Please explain what exactly you are talking about.
As I wrote in the very post you quoted above, the rich are hording income.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,056
8,335
136
No. The cause of homelessness is because of the cost to live in a home.
And why is that cost high?

It's because we simply don't have enough housing where people want to and need to live. Too many people and not enough vacancies. You know, like during the last 2 years when automobile prices jumped: a shortage of vehicles and high demand. For housing, we're seeing the same phenomenon - just that it's been going on for so long, people don't recognize the obvious solution: build more housing - private, public, whatever. Build hundreds of thousands of units in major metros.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
And the cost to live in a home is due to the lack of homes.

I’m sure it’s a factor but it’s not the biggest one.

In fact I can prove it to you.

The costs of homes has skyrocketed in the past several years, our population has not.
At the same time homelessness has also increased. In fact there is a correlation between the economy and the amount of homelessness and it does not track with population growth.

Second; in countries that have a low rate of homelessness, their focus hasn’t been to increase housing but rather to give assistance and a place to stay along with other measures to help them become more financially stable. Some housing is temporary and some is long term, some have specific types of buildings for this and others even use hotels.

Lastly; new homes are being built every year and the number of new homes have been increasing year over year following six years of lows after the 2008 crash.

Average home sale price:

How other countries tackle homelessness:

How cities in the US, who have been successful in tackling homelessness, have done it:

Homelessness by year (note that during the years of record low housing starts, homelessness dropped):

Housing starts by year:
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
And why is that cost high?

It's because we simply don't have enough housing where people want to and need to live. Too many people and not enough vacancies. You know, like during the last 2 years when automobile prices jumped: a shortage of vehicles and high demand. For housing, we're seeing the same phenomenon - just that it's been going on for so long, people don't recognize the obvious solution: build more housing - private, public, whatever. Build hundreds of thousands of units in major metros.

As I already said, supply is part of it. Simply building more houses doesn’t fix homelessness. There are many reasons why the costs are high. A good policy will address the most pressing ones and will come up with both short term solutions and long term.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
^ This. In my area, housing is being built at an astonishing rate. Suburbs, urban infill, densification, vertical replacing low rise (let's hear the cheers), both owner-occupied and rental units. The homelessness problem also keeps getting worse because homeless people can't afford any of it. Builders prefer high profits to low profits, amazing!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ivwshane

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
As I wrote in the very post you quoted above, the rich are hording income.
But the price of something has nothing to do with anything either. Because that's what you've been implying.

Do you think the price of necessities have anything to do with a lack of affordability in any case. Let's say food, transport, housing, medical care, schooling. Whatever.

Does the price of anything have anything to do with inequality?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
But the price of something has nothing to do with anything either. Because that's what you've been implying.

Do you think the price of necessities have anything to do with a lack of affordability in any case. Let's say food, transport, housing, medical care, schooling. Whatever.

Does the price of anything have anything to do with inequality?
Stop fucking lying about what I write. It makes you look like a moron.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
^ This. In my area, housing is being built at an astonishing rate. Suburbs, urban infill, densification, vertical replacing low rise (let's hear the cheers), both owner-occupied and rental units. The homelessness problem also keeps getting worse because homeless people can't afford any of it.
That's because we're millions and millions of units of housing short. It's pretty funny you go to a major city and you see a lot of construction cranes but yet demand still outstrips supply by an insane amount.

I see building so there must be no shortage! I see people going to see doctors so there's no problem with medical care costs! The grocery market has more food these days and more choices so nobody goes hungry! I see a lot of cars on the road so anybody can afford a car!

We are actually nearly 4 million units short of housng right now

 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,082
21,203
136
Stop fucking lying about what I write. It makes you look like a moron.
I'm not, you literally said the people blocking housing from being built where people need and want to live has nothing to do with not being able to afford housing, it's only wealth inequality. The cost of housing due to building restrictions has nothing to do with it. You are completely ignoring the actual cost of something caused by supply and demand. So when do you think the cost of something has anything to do with lack of affordability?

I'm not putting any words in your mouth. I find it amazing you can't see what you're actually saying.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
That's because we're millions and millions of units of housing short. It's pretty funny you go to a major city and you see a lot of construction cranes but yet demand still outstrips supply by an insane amount.

I see building so there must be no shortage! I see people going to see doctors so there's no problem with medical care costs! The grocery market has more food these days and more choices so nobody goes hungry! I see a lot of cars on the road so anybody can afford a car!

We are actually nearly 4 million units short of housng right now

Okay, so build four million more housing units. Then find out that homeless people still can't afford them because their incomes are too low.