KYRO III probably out in Q1 2002. What are its known specs?

[Daemon_UK]

Title says it all.

Im sure most of us are pretty sick of Nvidia's product cycle. I guess they are turning slowly into Intel... more mhz, mhz, and no actual improvements.

So, what do we know about the Kyro III?

 

[Daemon_UK]

Ok, I'll start.. Go this from my m8 Teasy, posted here
--------------------

Geforce 3/Radeon 8500 killer: Impossible to say right now.

Price: $150-£199 recommened (read $120-$160 online).

Performance: From specs known to the public we can figure out that at least it should be 3 times as fast as Kyro II if these specs (given out by ST's president) are correct.. which IMGTEC hinted that they are to me at ECTS.

4 pixels pipes and unknown amount of TU's per pipe at 250mhz. 64mb DDR video ram at 250mhz. Hardware T&L, wether its DX7 or DX8 hardware T&L is unkown but personally I think it'll be a DX8 vertex shader (PowerVR MBX the recent mobile graphics chip has a optional vertex processing unit).

Now with those specs we have two possibilities. The first is the chip has 1 TU per pipe. In which case the Kyro III would be nearly 3 times as fast as Kyro II in raw fillrate, 1000mtexels/s (Kyro III should be able to support that higher fillrate too because of the massive increase in bandwidth and also its TBR nature) compared to 350mtexels. Of course hardware T&L will add to its speed increase at lower resolutions over Kyro II and the possibility of free FSAA would add a massive speed increase making Kyro III many many times faster then Kyro II when FSAA is used.

The second option is the chip has 2 TU's per pipe in which case in raw fillrate Kyro III will be nearly 6 times as fast as Kyro II, 2000mtexels/s for Kyro III (again it should be able to support most of that extra fillrate if not all) compared to 350mtexels/s for Kyro II. Considering that using 2 TU's per pipe instead of 1 makes almost no difference to chip complexity I'd say it would be silly not to do this as using 1 TU instead of 2 would sacrifice pixel fillrate when multi-texturing.

Now for some conjecture, some *guesses* of stuff that could be in Kyro III.

Free FSAA: More accurately MSAA or edge AA, the same kind as Geforce 3 (thats just the MSAA NOT the blur filter that blurs the whole screen.. MSAA only anti-aliases edges and does NOT inherently blur). Because of Kyro's tile based rendering technique this form of AA could be used for free. So you could be running Q3 at 250fps at 640x480x32 and then turn on anti-aliasing which makes the 640x480 resolution look more like 1024x768x32 and you would still get around 250fps.

64bit colour: as with internal true colour (32bit internal rendering) Kyro III could use 64bit internal accuracy (perhaps called internal real colour?) and then downgrade the final pixel to 16 or 32bit once all rendering is done. That way it can get the benefits of 64bit colour but as far as memory bandwidth is concerned its only running in 16 or 32bit colour because external bandwidth (bandwidth outside the chip, video ram) will never see a 64bit pixel. External bandwidth will only have to deal with 16 or 32bit pixels but all blending and rendering will be done in 64bit allowing great image quality (the chips tile buffer has a huge amount of memory bandwidth so it can easily handle rendering internally at 64bit).

 

[Vegito]

I dont know much about kyro but how is the company doing ? Do they sell enough card to make money ? I can tell they work hard at their technology but just dont want to see the route of 3dfx where you invest a lot in technology but ran out of money while selling the card....

 

[AnitaPeterson]

As always, no word about the quality of the video output....

 

[Powervr]

************
well if the videoutput is like my hercules 4500...(kyro 2)
gorgeous...
the best output (with my monitor nec FE750) I saw ever...

************
this company is doing fine...
STmicroelectronics is only the world's third micropocessor maker (they build kyro)
Imagination technologies is where kyro design is born (well .... most of tuners, digital radios, etc... etc... have techonologies from them so.... $$$ to them from sony,samsung etc...)
not to mention that inside all dreamcast is the previous generation of kyro (pvrsgn chip)

so their's financial is great... (for many years to come)
************


my kyro 2 board is still running great...
I bought an athlon 1700+ and...
I play wolfeinstein (everything on, max settings) at 1280x1024x32
this board is still amazing me...


the guys who didn't bought kyro 2 because it would suffer with future T&L games, were dead wrong


sorry about my english...

 

[Powervr]

relax man 3dfx death was a consequence of all the enemies they got after STB route.....
imagination is diversifying their's business..(many things on)
if one business fails they get money from the other business....


I remember the days of riva 128, a crappy card with crappy drivers with crappy performance from nvidia

nvidia is a lausy company...
that will end soon or later....

kyro is here to stay whether you like it or not!!!

 

[BFG10K]

Im sure most of us are pretty sick of Nvidia's product cycle.

Why? Are the cards not fast enough for you or something? Do you have a Ti500 and are disappointed with its performance or something?

Geforce 3/Radeon 8500 killer: Impossible to say right now.

I can tell you with 90% certainty that it will not be a GF3 Ti500/8500 killer.

I play wolfeinstein (everything on, max settings) at 1280x1024x32
this board is still amazing me...

That's pretty amazing considering I don't even run my Ti500 at those settings. I'm will to bet you've got a thorough slideshow at those settings.

In fact, at 1600 x 1200 Anand was getting 33 FPS so I'm willing to beat that you're lucky to go past 45 FPS at your settings. In otherwords, a complete slideshow.

 

[Daemon_UK]

<< Im sure most of us are pretty sick of Nvidia's product cycle. >>





<< Why? Are the cards not fast enough for you or something? Do you have a Ti500 and are disappointed with its performance or something? >>



Reason why I said the above, is because when looking around these forums, most people agree that no innovation has happened since Geforce 3. We have only had more core and ram speed revisions. Look at the rumoured G4 specs, umm looks like more of the same but higher clocked.

I want more features, more innovation! Wheres the 3DFX tech that was going to be implemented, do I have to wait until NV30?

Now stop turning this into my card is better than your card type war, and stop flaming each other. I didn't start this thread for that. Im sure there are many many people who are interested in what happens when you have a TBR solution, with alot of muscle behind it. Hopefully this is what KYRO III will be.

Now stop flaming, and start posting specs!.

 

[nemesismk2]

The Kyro 3 specs look impressive, whether or not it's faster than a Geforce 3 is impossible to tell at this early stage, however IMO in performs of the performance to cost ratio the Kyro 3 will wipe the floor with the Geforce 3 if it's priced in the £150-£200 price range. If the price is going to be roughly the same as a Geforce 3 then it will be alot harder for me to sell them because stupid people believe nvidia hype. No names ofcourse, hey BFG10K nice to see your still going on about that Anandtech review!

 

[Powervr]

"That's pretty amazing considering I don't even run my Ti500 at those settings. I'm will to bet you've got a thorough slideshow at those settings.

In fact, at 1600 x 1200 Anand was getting 33 FPS so I'm willing to beat that you're lucky to go past 45 FPS at your settings. In otherwords, a complete slideshow. "


I tested in 1600x1200x32 with my kyro 2 (I have athlon XP 1700+ with ddr266 and windows XP )
I guess it's the TBR nature of it, and my excellent system...

and it's PLAYABLE with KYRO !!!!!
I guess it never drops bellow 20 fps or something at these settings... (everything on, without nvidia fog ...)

I can't benchmark it (please help) but when I play it's smooth...

imagine something like 3 times better than kyro 2 ....
it would put nvidia best into shame

 

[RobsTV]

<< imagine something like 3 times better than kyro 2 ....
it would put nvidia best into shame
>>



When looking for something 3 times better than Kyro 2, why imagine when
all you need to do is look at the original GF3, let alone the Ti series.
Look at what time has shown to be the true Kyro2.
All this time, and it still can't beat an easily overclocked GF2 in most benchmarks and tests.
Always at the bottom of the charts.
All the lies about the Kyro II are surely making a lot of people laugh when they hear Kyro III.
Why stop at 3 times better than Kyro 2? What not just start with 10 times better than GF3?

I think with all the false hype about Kyro II, it's best to put any talk about future Kyro's in
the trash until the time comes when a Kyro can actually do 1/2 of what the fanboys want it to do.

As to nvidia product cycle, it is awesome!
The one thing you fanboys left out was besides performance increase, there is a new series
called Ti200. GF3 Ti200 and for $100 to $150 you get GF3 Ti500/ Radeon 8500 performance.
Opps, I forgot. USA prices........ Guess some of you will be left out again.

BTW, I'm sure nvidiot will come to mind, but I never say anything bad about nvidia's true
competition, ATI. While I haven't been fond of ATI drivers, at least the company does pretty
much what they say, and makes a fine card that can compete with nvidia products.

 

[ChrisADuffy]

I refuse to buy Kyro!

 

[Daemon_UK]

Sigh,

I don't care what you buy. I only started this thread for spec.

Someone, please post about specs..

I suppose this is too hard to do, with all the fanboys on this board.

Oh well, I can always post on the beyond3d forums eh?

 

[EdipisReks]

i only see 2 fanboys on this thread, and they aren't nVidiots. the kyro II was too little, too late, and i imagine that it will be the same for the kyro III. besides, you have already posted all the hype (i mean specs) that anyone could ever want about the kyro III.

--jacob

 

[Mingon]

I have had nvdia cards going back to the tnt and so far the 'hype' has meant a solid card with good perormance and good drivers, damn they are so evil.



<< Opps, I forgot. USA prices........ Guess some of you will be left out again >>



Yeah thanks for that kick in the nuts, the cheapest ti200 over here is around $250 goddamit.

 

[Killrose]

I'm glad we're hearing hype about the KyroIII. I probably will never buy one, but competition is a good thing and maybe some of the shortcomings of the KyroII will be erased with the new chip. I think the KyroII suprised a lot of people who did'nt think they could ever be competitive. With a new improved core they might be able to pull off more surprises.

 

[Danman]

OMG, you guys suck. I was just going to buy a Asus V8200 Deluxe and now I have to re-think it again.

 

[nemesismk2]

<< I have had nvdia cards going back to the tnt and so far the 'hype' has meant a solid card with good perormance and good drivers, damn they are so evil.



<< Opps, I forgot. USA prices........ Guess some of you will be left out again >>



Yeah thanks for that kick in the nuts, the cheapest ti200 over here is around $250 goddamit. >>



I've used my fair share of nvidia video cards going right back to the lame Riva128 and I've sold more than you can imagine. Anyway the reason I don't like Nvidia is because of the way they conduct business, the whole "don't support the kyro 2" memo stuff was minor compared to some of the things they've done. If your in the industry you will know exactly what I mean, it's usually a case of support only products based on our chipsets or we'll make sure nobody supplies to you.

 

[Mingon]

I totally agree with what your saying, but at the end of the day as long as nvdia are scared of competition it will mean better and better cards. Lets face it if the shoe was on the other foot would the approach to business be any different ? i dont think so. It is one of those facts of life that tree huggers despise anyway back to topic I hope the kyro III will have 4 pipelines with 2 tmu's with core running at 250-300mhz and memory will be 3.8ns as it seems to be available in bulk, I just dont know if they will pull off the TnL unit or not. I need a replacement for my Geforce2 ultra and I am hoping either the kyro III is good or I am waiting for the geforce 5 / nv30.

 

[Powervr]

the BIG thing here is that I am playing a game that you (all nvidiots) said that I would not be able to play decently allmoust 1 year ago...



wolfeinstein at 1600x1200x32 rocks....sweet
allways at more than 25 fps...

there must be many things occluded, and kyro's TBR is doing the job nicely...

nvidia might have solid drivers (except the last one ), good cards, etc...
but imagination (the guys behind kyro) also deliver good performance products (for the price), and rock solid drivers...
kyro 2 is the proof...

robstv:

"When looking for something 3 times better than Kyro 2, why imagine when
all you need to do is look at the original GF3, let alone the Ti series"

you said that 3 times kyro 2 performance is like any geforce 3....
yes... but no one knows what would be kyro 3 final performance.

why do you need more fill rate, if at 1600x1200x32 there is enough fill rate to achieve playable performance.
more complexity (more polys) will not bring more requirements in fill rate (actually, more complexity will mean less fill rate requirement for all TBR (like kyro))


bring more features and cheaper pricesand I would be happier (free FSAA, better FSAA, etc...)

 

[Powervr]

"I refuse to buy Kyro! "

then buy something else and be happy...

 

[Killrose]

20fps maybe ok if your running around by yourself, but 20fps does not cut it when the enemy shows up with a flamethrower and points it at you. 20fps does not cut it anywhere in my book. 20fps has a habit of becomming more like 8fps when things really start hapening.

Sorry powervr, but even 30fps does'nt cut it. Unless your into taking screen shots.

I'm sure you will be much happier when the KIII comes out

 

[Mingon]

<< the BIG thing here is that I am playing a game that you (all nvidiots) said that I would not be able to play decently allmoust 1 year ago... >>



the SMALL thing here is that you are still posting and trolling despite our hopes that you had been banned, go away powervr unless you have something worthwhile to say.

 

[Killrose]

powervr, we are not children with on-board video playing smuf nerf arena. We know crap when we see it, hear it, and even though we are distances apart over the internet, we can still smell it!!

Com'on, you have more, valid statements then what you are saying here. Even the GeForce 3 guy's back down the resolution when they start seeing 33fps!! If they don't, then they too need their heads examined.

 

[Powervr]

"Sorry powervr, but even 30fps does'nt cut it. Unless your into taking screen shots."
yes...
but it never drop bellow 25 fps...

TBR minimum fps is allways closer to the average fps

when the scene is more complex the requirements of fill rate drops (unlike traditional cards), well it would require more processing power for T&L but I got a athlon xp 1700+



"the SMALL thing here is that you are still posting and trolling despite our hopes that you had been banned, go away powervr unless you have something worthwhile to say."

you want me to be like U ?