Korean vs American school system

[Cerb]

Disagreed. Basic framework of science and math HAS to be instilled before you go nitty gritty into the details of how we got there.

Nobody goes into the nitty gritty of how we got there until well past compulsory schooling anyway, so I'm not sure what you mean, there.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Clearly, the answer is to throw more money at the problem.

 

[piasabird]

Koreans pay to send their children to a high school.

 

[hans030390]

I am happy for people to use a computer, its great for research, but to stop people just copying from wikipedia, they have to LOOK, WRITE AND LEARN.

It bothers me that you talk so much about the importance of writing and only used one comma in that bold section. (I do understand your reasoning, though.)

Though I should be more bothered by the other, larger inaccuracies in your sentence.

 

[Texashiker]

We are getting creamed internationally. Our math and science scores are abysmally low. If you compare our scores to countries like South Korea, we are getting trounced. What's the solution?

What we have here is a clash of cultures.

Korea - sit down, shut up, do as you are told.

US - teachers say sit down, shut up, students say screw you.

Part of the problem with our education system, why should I live my life to the standards set by someone else? Why should I jump through hoops just because the state and the teacher says I should?

Screw the teachers, screw the education system, I live my life by my own standards. Just because a teacher says I need to do something to get a good grade provides no incentive. Some students have no interest in good grades.

If schools want to provide an incentive to make good grades, pay the students, provide flexible hours, more time off for good grades.

Just because someone says I need to study and make good grades does not mean I am going to do what they ask. Maybe I should ask the teacher to wash my truck? In exchange I'll write an A on a paper and give it to the teacher.

Then there is the topic of homework, which is nothing more then treating the students like slaves. Teacher says take this paper home, complete it and bring it back. Someone remind me why I have to what the teacher says? I am not your little peon or your dog. If you want the paper filled out, fill it out yourself.

Koreans pay to send their children to a high school.

I pay this little thing called school taxes every year.

 

[diesbudt]

As Bill Gates has once said, he would rather hire a lazy person than a smart person.

Lazy people find easier and better ways to get stuff done. Because They are lazy. Maybe we understand this and the world doesn't?​

 

[Smoblikat]

As Bill Gates has once said, he would rather hire a lazy person than a smart person.

Lazy people find easier and better ways to get stuff done. Because They are lazy. Maybe we understand this and the world doesn't?​

I would rather hire an innovative person.........

 

[OutHouse]

A good portion of our system is being strangled by ESL students as well. Yes, I had to throw that in there. You look at the demographics for a place like California, and there's no question what the problem they face is.

i agree with this.

 

[OutHouse]

Koreans pay to send their children to a high school.

so do I. its called property taxes.

 

[OutHouse]

I think teachers are underpaid. I think teachers are under-appreciated.

lol, underpaid? LOL LOL LOL LOL underappreciated? of course they suck.

 

[Texashiker]

I think teachers are underpaid. I think teachers are under-appreciated.

What is the difference between a child abuser and a teacher? The teacher gets paid to abuse children.

When teachers start acting like teachers, rather than slave drivers, they might get some respect.

But first, they have to kiss my ass and apologize to generations of children that have been abused by our public education system.

 

[ivwshane]

lol, underpaid? LOL LOL LOL LOL underappreciated? of course they suck.

I'm sure you aren't one of those , "CEO's have to be paid a lot to attract the best talent", type people either./s


http://m.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state


If your kid was being tought by someone, which teacher would you rather have teaching your kid, one that makes $48k or one that makes $65k?

 

[sm625]

S Korea doesnt have a multibillion dollar industry focused on making its citizens stupid. Case in point: most of you could not even name any of the components of the system I am referring to. You're just like.... huh? You dont even know. You have no frickin idea. And you expect your children not to fall victim to it? Ha... that's good for a laugh. This will not even come close to turning around until the masses can identify this system and how it works.

For one thing, its not random.

"Diet, injections and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so. "

Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society 1953

That was written 60 years ago. Much of the system that I am referring to was founded upon the writings of Bertrand Russell. That's as good a place as any to start, if you even pretend to care about any of this. Then you might see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

[irishScott]

S Korea doesnt have a multibillion dollar industry focused on making its citizens stupid. Case in point: most of you could not even name any of the components of the system I am referring to. You're just like.... huh? You dont even know. You have no frickin idea. And you expect your children not to fall victim to it? Ha... that's good for a laugh. This will not even come close to turning around until the masses can identify this system and how it works.

For one thing, its not random.

"Diet, injections and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so. "

Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society 1953

That was written 60 years ago. Much of the system that I am referring to was founded upon the writings of Bertrand Russell. That's as good a place as any to start, if you even pretend to care about any of this. Then you might see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

So not just conspiracy theory, but 1950s conspiracy theory. That's got to be a P&N record.

Come on, post some youtube videos of a documentary with horrible editing that takes everything out of context! You know you want to...

 

[piasabird]

I pay property taxes also. Schools in the USA receive millions in funding from the federal government under title 4 or something like that.

I pay property tax and have no kids in school any longer. Probably not all of that goes for just school.

What I am saying is highschool is not part of the public school system in South Korea.

 

[CptObvious]

I lived in Korea for a few years. Yes, their educational system is way too rigid and focuses too much on rote memorization. But compare that to the U.S., where you have a handful of great educational institutions but large swaths of the country with complete idiots running and funding the schools, particularly in the South. I'd say the Korean government and local communities, even in the smaller areas, are overall more serious about making sure students are fundamentally prepared once they finish.

 

[Gintaras]

Bottom line, beating education into somebody with 12 hour school days will not produce a Steve Jobs.

Bottom line...YOU aren't Steve Jobs neither rest of 300 millions of americans...
You're a Failure of American Education system as rest of Most of 300 Millions of americans - you can type this using chinesse/korean made keyboard...IOf chinese/koreans were that bad and you were that good - YOU will be typing this on US made keyboard...

 

[Sulaco]

Bottom line...YOU aren't Steve Jobs neither rest of 300 millions of americans...
You're a Failure of American Education system as rest of Most of 300 Millions of americans - you can type this using chinesse/korean made keyboard...IOf chinese/koreans were that bad and you were that good - YOU will be typing this on US made keyboard...

Lol at equating quality of education to mass producing of cheap electronic products that are made for pennies on the dollar.
Newsflash: They're made there because of the cheap labor, mostly by US owned companies.

You really are a moron.

By the way, considering your horrid butchered English and penchant for having a serious little man syndrome for all things American, why is it you continue to live in and leach off of the US, rather than returning to the great motherland shithole you're from?

 

[Texashiker]

IOf chinese/koreans were that bad and you were that good - YOU will be typing this on US made keyboard...

We are smart enough to exploit cheap labor.

chinese/koreans are dumb enough to work for slave wages.

 

[spacejamz]

here's a start to fix the problem:

 

[Gintaras]

We are smart enough to exploit cheap labor.

chinese/koreans are dumb enough to work for slave wages.

Lol at equating quality of education to mass producing of cheap electronic products that are made for pennies on the dollar.
Newsflash: They're made there because of the cheap labor, mostly by US owned companies.

You really are a moron.

By the way, considering your horrid butchered English and penchant for having a serious little man syndrome for all things American, why is it you continue to live in and leach off of the US, rather than returning to the great motherland shithole you're from?

Ever heard an expression:"Laughing That Who's Laughing Last"?

Who do you think wuill pay $17 Trilion debt?
What would happen, if China won't sent underwear because of non-payment of debt?

Would you able to make an underwear yourself or would you walk in your own shit?

China is able to supply their own market...are you able to do the same here in US?

Do you think, it would be hardship for China to stamp: PAST DUE and hold all shipments or for you? Loosing so-called cheap labor? What would be a replacement for "cheap labor in China" then?

 

[Texashiker]

China is able to supply their own market...are you able to do the same here in US?

We could at one time supply all of our needs.

That was until greed drove our factories to low wage nations.

 

[Exterous]

so do I. its called property taxes.

Yes but Americans are generally pretty bad at linking indirect costs. I'd be willing to bet if we made it a direct cost we'd see an increase in parental invovelment

 

[OverVolt]

Ever heard an expression:"Laughing That Who's Laughing Last"?

Who do you think wuill pay $17 Trilion debt?
What would happen, if China won't sent underwear because of non-payment of debt?

Would you able to make an underwear yourself or would you walk in your own shit?

China is able to supply their own market...are you able to do the same here in US?

Do you think, it would be hardship for China to stamp: PAST DUE and hold all shipments or for you? Loosing so-called cheap labor? What would be a replacement for "cheap labor in China" then?

Nobody is paying down the debt lol.

China is not the superpower you think it is. They bluff, and you buy it hook line and sinker. A loss is zero and a gain is exaggerated. All their economic data is fudged. Without exports their economy would tank collapse.

 

[DrPizza]

1. I think you start by getting rid of unions and remove job security for the shit teachers of which there are indeed many; the great teachers will rise to the top and won't need to worry about job security. Conversely, you pay the good/great teachers amazingly well. We're talking $80K to start with great health benefits, etc. No matter the state. This will also encourage great potential teachers working in other industries to get into the education system. Teacher pay scales would also be uniform within a state.

2. At the same time, we also REMOVE standardized testing in favor ONE written AND oral exam that all students take at the end of every school year that serves as the grade exit examination. Depending on the percentage of students that get a 2.0 or better, the teacher gets a pay bonus. If too many fail, the teacher may not get a job offer for the next year. This written/oral exam would be aligned with various common high standards that would be similar from state to state. A student is held back or sent to a "special" classroom if he/she fails to pass the grade exit exam. No kicking the can.

3. Starting at the 9th grade, students would have the choice of either taking a college-prep high school track or a vocational track. This would model the German system whereby students in the latter track would learn specific vocational skills alongside more traditional high school curriculum but instead of applying for a college at the end of 4 years, they would apply for paid training positions with companies. While at these companies for 2-3 years of training, they would split their time between working within various company departments and returning to the vocational classroom to learn subjects that reinforce their on-the-job training. In Germany, this is known as the Dual System. After three years, the student would be certified in a specific vocation that would be recognized (transferable) by all companies. The trainee would also most likely receive a job offer to remain at the company that trained him.

4. Funding equalization. (This is the most socialist of all my comments.) Schools may continue to be funded by property tax revenue but I would argue for something more stable in light of the recent crisis. A time of crisis is not the time for schools to suffer financially. Quite the opposite should be true. Perhaps school funding could shift away from property taxes and instead to state income tax revenues? In any event, funding would be equalized. Meaning, rich counties would have to support poorer counties to create more equal learning environments.

5. The school year. Gone would be the 12-week-long summer vacation. In its place would be a 6-week summer vacation. The 6 weeks "lost" would be added to other vacations throughout the year: fall break, Thanksgiving, Christmas, spring break, etc. Each of these would be longer. The school week would also be different. For example, on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, students would focus on four core subjects like math, English, social studies (government/econ/history), and science only for longer class periods of at least 90 minutes. Tuesdays and Thursdays would have class periods of the same length but focusing on mandatory foreign language, art, music, and ethics classes. (Religion/ethics is mandatory in German schools). Each school day, Monday-Thursday, would end with 45-60 minutes of PE because Americans are too fat. Mandatory foreign language instruction (choice of German, Spanish, or Mandarin) would start at 4th grade at the latest, if not earlier.

1. Why should teachers' pay scales be uniform across a whole state? In my area, I can live very comfortably on my income. If I went to the other side of the state, I wouldn't be able to. Or, do you think the cost of living should be uniform across a whole state - the people in NYC shouldn't be paying for an apartment 10 times what I pay for a house and a lot of land? Unions: I don't think you're aware of how much unions have fought for improving education. Of course, they also want more money for their teachers, and that's apparently un-American and gets the unions a bad rap. Tell you what - look at the list of states that don't have teachers unions, then get back to me. At least in my state, they have already taken steps toward removing ineffective teachers - every teacher is evaluated based on students' grades on state assessments.
2. Students take ONE test, and THE teacher is evaluated? I think there's a counting problem here. In high school, typically students have a different teacher for each subject. Even in elementary schools, there are often music, art, phys ed, and other specialties.
3. I love the idea, and have been saying that for a while. I'm not sure why we have this one size fits all mentality. Tell me, why the hell does every student have to pass algebra in NY in order to graduate from high school (though currently, "passing" algebra is a joke. The state assessment requires 31 out of 87 points to "pass" with a 65% scaled score. And, going back to the OP, Secretary of Education Duncan, gee, you THINK our standards for passing were too low?! (This, coming from a math teacher.) Meanwhile, virtually no students learn how to use a simple spreadsheet to track their own checking accounts, or can even balance a checking account.
4. Agreed to an extent, though as I pointed out, costs aren't equalized, even within the same state. And even the cost per pupil isn't the same - all children don't cost the same amount to educate. If you broke down the costs associated with some students, you might find that within some school districts, a regular student costs $7500 per year to educate, while a special ed student might be in the neighborhood of $20k, after special accommodations, aides, etc. are taken into account. So, a district with a higher percentage of special education students is going to cost more on a per pupil basis.
5. I'll only briefly point out how ridiculous your schedule is. What are the math, science, etc. teachers going to do on Tues, Thurs - and vice versa. Where are you going to put all those students who are taking phys ed at the same time at the end of the day? Do you have any research that shows that such a schedule is beneficial? I've taught in 2 states - both have the same number of school days, but one has a longer school year due to more breaks. I can tell you from experience that the last day before a vacation is a complete waste. And, forget about starting a unit before a vacation and finishing it the week after you return. Also, what's wrong with other foreign languages? What's wrong with learning French, for instance? A foreign language IS mandatory in some states (NY requires students to pass a foreign language. Some special ed students may be exempted from this.)

Teachers - Remove tenure. If students fail the exams, teachers jobs are not safe. This way, the teachers will work harder to ensure the students learn. Teachers should also receive bonuses based on performance. If a whole class passes the exams with a C average, they get say £1000 bonus. If they get a B average its £2500. If they get an A average they get a £5000 bonus.

Homework - restrict it to half hour a day, per subject, with no more than 2 subjects setting homework per day. All homework should be handwritten, for reasons listed at the start.

Funding schools - every school (unless privately funded schools from parents paying per semester for tutoring costs) should receive funding based on student numbers. Each student should equate to roughly £1500 for the academic year. This is to be spent on resources and materials for the classes (not teachers pay).

Finally, teaching fiscal responsibility is another thing which should be mandatory, learning to manage money properly is a big help and should be taught in schools everywhere.

This would help drastically, but would cost massively too much to implement.

I'm in favor of some sort of merit pay. However, having spent time in the classroom, I cannot fathom any reasonable way to rate teachers in this manner. Not all students have the same ability. And from year to year, the average ability of a class varies wildly. 2 years ago, about 15-20% of the students in one of my classes were advanced students who were one grade below the rest of the students. Last year, only 1 student in that class was an advanced student. Guess what that means for the class average on the state assessment. Compared to the region and state, my students did fairly well. But, compared to previous years, my students did poorly. You think it's because I didn't try as hard? Plus, I had a lot of weaker than usual students - in the end, I put forth MORE effort than the previous year, and had worse results. You cannot judge a teacher's ability simply by looking at the scores of that teacher's students - someone above pointed out the discrepancy between two neighboring districts - put me in a classroom in an affluent district, and I'll have all my students in the high 90's. Put me in an inner city school district and give me students behind by a couple of grade levels, and I'll be lucky if half of them pass the exact same exam.

Homework - handwritten - "for reasons listed at the start" - You've given absolutely no reason for homework to be handwritten. If it's written, do you want it written in cursive, or can it be printed? While I'll agree that handwriting is still important for some reasons, your reply was void of any reasons.

I've already pointed out the flaws in funding a school on a per pupil basis. Not all students cost the same to educate. This goes beyond just salaries. Large print books, adaptations for various disabilities, etc., can have some fairly significant costs.

I agree on the last part, but have a little trouble believing that so many students never have some sort of household budget project. I'd think that most students get some taste of fiscal responsibility. I don't think the solution is simply education. For example: how many people have never heard that smoking is bad for you before they start smoking? A lot of the problem with fiscal responsibility is that fiscal irresponsibility is often modeled at home.