[Kitguru] Microsoft might be interested in buying AMD

[Dribble]

The problem with the APU is it mostly eats AMD sales - before they would have sold a cpu chip and a gpu chip (most AMD cpu's would get an AMD gpu not an nvidia one), with the APU they no longer sell a gpu chip and they haven't increased the price of the cpu. Hence they loose the sale of a gpu with every APU sale.
I know they had to do it as Intel starting including gpu's on their cpu's (before AMD managed it despite AMD being the one owning a gpu company!) but it's hardly a great way of making AMD more money.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Because the best iGPU when they are all slow doesn't equate to much. For actual PG gaming, you still needed a dGPU, particularly at 1080p. It hasn't actually changed.

Also, AMD still has the fastest iGPU in an APU. It's in the PS4.

What we need is R390X class with HBM in an iGPU. Feasible? Well, the PS4 is 7870 class with GDDR5.

On 14nm, Zen + GCN2 + HBM2, could easily give 980/390X performance class in an APU. That's when low-end & mid-range dGPU will die off and what's left, are high end options, very expensive.

I think something like that will eventually happen.

Compared to 5 years ago, APUs have killed off the lowest end cards.

As APUs grow in performance, they replace the lower tiers of graphics cards, until they will eventually replace mid range graphics cards.

I don't think it will happen next year to be honest, but maybe the year after that, you might get HBM2 in an APU. Even something like 1GB of RAM for an APU would make a big difference.

 

[beginner99]

If they didn't, AMD would probably be dead and snapped up by the likes of Qualcomm or other partner. So, while it hasn't brought them huge success, it has helped bring them enough success to stay afloat and retain ownership.

Problem with ATI purchase was, that it was too expensive for the cash AMD had. This lead to delays in process technology and lower R&D which made AMD uncompetitive forcing them to sell the foundry part and falling behind more and more. If AMD could have invested these 5 billion in new CPU tech, history might have turned out completely different.

What I'm saying is that the purchase of ATI is indirectly responsible for AMD falling so much behind Intel.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Suppose Microsoft did buy AMD, would they shut off sale of PS4s once they got their hands on AMD?

 

[ShintaiDK]

The problem with the APU is it mostly eats AMD sales - before they would have sold a cpu chip and a gpu chip (most AMD cpu's would get an AMD gpu not an nvidia one), with the APU they no longer sell a gpu chip and they haven't increased the price of the cpu. Hence they loose the sale of a gpu with every APU sale.
I know they had to do it as Intel starting including gpu's on their cpu's (before AMD managed it despite AMD being the one owning a gpu company!) but it's hardly a great way of making AMD more money.

That was also something most people could see miles away when AMD bought ATI and announced Fusion. It could only lead to internal canibalism.

And from history we have learned that consumers are not willing to downgrade on the CPU to get better IGP. So its a double damage lose/lose situation for AMD.

 

[Headfoot]

Suppose Microsoft did buy AMD, would they shut off sale of PS4s once they got their hands on AMD?

highly doubtful. their contract is likely for a term with no right of termination on AMD's behalf. Probably not assignable without permission which Sony would be very unwise to grant

 

[ShintaiDK]

Suppose Microsoft did buy AMD, would they shut off sale of PS4s once they got their hands on AMD?

Assuming they did. No.

To possible regain the value of the buyout they would have to swing the heavy 2 hand axe brutally at AMD. License GPU tech out to everyone willing to take it and keep the Sony PS4 revenue flowing. The goal would be to keep the GPU tech alive enough to be used/reused in a possible future console with either ARM or a licensed Intel CPU design. While everything else would get 0 funding and just sell as long as it could. And after the possible future console(s). Then shut the company off completely when the licensing part cant keep whats left floating. Think Imagination Technologies type future.

I doubt more than 1000-1500 people would be left after such a buyout while it would slowly further decrease over time.

Thats really the only way to get the money back. Cut the company to the bone. 4-5 billion that needs to have a return of 10% per year as well to make it worthwhile.

 

[Stuka87]

Its actually in Microsoft's (Assuming this all for some reason happened) best interest to keep the PS4 on x86. The reason being is it makes it FAR easier for Dev's to develop for the XBox and PS4. There are some API differences, but for the most part the consoles area extremely similar. Happy Devs are productive devs.

 

[therealnickdanger]

Because the best iGPU when they are all slow doesn't equate to much. For actual PG gaming, you still needed a dGPU, particularly at 1080p. It hasn't actually changed.

That was sorta my point... is that it's pointless. IGP is only now "acceptable" for 720p/768p high/ultra and 1080p low-med. In the future, IGP will be "acceptable" for 1080p high/ultra, but it will still really only matter for mobile. Desktop and living room will be 4K+ and people will complain about IGP the same way we do now. It doesn't help AMD and overall NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

 

[Silverforce11]

That was sorta my point... is that it's pointless. IGP is only now "acceptable" for 720p/768p high/ultra and 1080p low-med. In the future, IGP will be "acceptable" for 1080p high/ultra, but it will still really only matter for mobile. Desktop and living room will be 4K+ and people will complain about IGP the same way we do now. It doesn't help AMD and overall NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

The reason why iGPU hasn't breached the "performance threshold" all this time was due to lack of fast bandwidth with ample capacity. Crystal-well offers fast bandwidth but its a cache, high settings & textures destroy its performance.

HBM2 is the solution. Fast bandwidth with enough capacity to match dGPU vram.

It's definitely the break-through tech to unleash iGPU potential. As there's no difference whether its an iGPU or dGPU, its got the same uarch, same bandwidth, same vram capacity. The limits will be TDP, but since AIO are popular for CPU cooling, its a non-issue.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, I am going to put that all in one cooler in my ultrabook. I am with nickdanger on this one. APUs (either from AMD or intel, I am using the term generically), only make sense in mobile. A nice apu with good cpu performance and HBM will make sense in a laptop if the price is right. But in a desktop, they are improving, but even with HBM will be at best a low/mid solution compared to a powerful CPU and discrete gpu. Plus a separate cpu and gpu are much more flexible, in that you can upgrade separately. And yes by the time zen apus with HBM come out 1080p will be the low end for desktop gaming.

And lets look at that theoretical 390x quality APU. The TDP of the 390x is 275 watts, add another 80 watts for the cpu and you have 350 watts. Even if 14 nm brings double performance per watt you are still at 3x the power envelope for a large notebook, and about 10x the power of a mainstream mobile chip. In a desktop, yes, you can do it perhaps, but it will be a niche product just like current APUs.

 

[ocre]

I think the rumor is improbable.

AMD has a very rough road ahead of them. Why would M$ throw money into that pit? M$ is a rich company, yes. But there have been serious concerns these past few years. Many attempts to branch out have brought them nowhere and all eyes are on their every move.

This, out today

http://news.investors.com/technolog...microsoft-msft-ahead-of-q4-report.htm?ven=rss

But he [Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella] said Microsoft will "make some tough choices in areas where things are not working."​

Microsoft is rumored to be planning another round of layoffs and a big write-down on the value of its Nokia (NYSE:NOK) mobile device acquisition.
​

Microsoft shedding non-core assets

On Monday, Microsoft got out of the Internet display advertising business through a deal with Verizon (NYSE:VZ) -owned AOL.​

"After more than a decade of 'investment' (i.e., sustained losses and write-downs) in advertising, we think this is the right strategic move for Microsoft," DiFucci said. Display ads likely represented about 1% of Microsoft's revenue, he said.
With Microsoft in house-cleaning mode, there's a good chance it could take a write-down of the $5.2 billion in goodwill associated with its Nokia acquisition and further restructuring, he said.
"An aggressive write-down and restructuring would mitigate future losses, but we note that the business would still likely burn cash," DiFucci said. "We see the Phone Hardware business as poorly positioned versus the established Apple (NASDAQ:AAPL) and Android ecosystems and believe Microsoft will have to either make significant investments to drive scale (and thus higher losses) or accept lower market share and market relevance.

The xbox division is a very tiny portion of M$ and it is certainly non essential. Bill Gates was just talking about selling off the whole division a few months ago. The assertion that M$ would buy AMD for their console division sounds preposterous to me. Completely out of the realm of reason.

There is a huge problem with the idea that anyone buys AMD. I cannot see any company buying them and handing the mountains of cash just to keep doing what they are doing. If someone buys AMD, they will most likely dismantle the company. It takes many years to come up with a awesome CPU or brand new GPU architecture. And AMD has dumped billions into research for many years. They have only recently started skimping in the R&D department. You see, AMD has been struggling in quick sand and that is just not gonna be attractive to anyone. I honestly believe that one of the reasons AMD is developing ARM capabilities is to become more attractive for a sale.

There is no one gonna buy AMD and let them continue to do what they are doing. Their GPU department needs to be spun off completely. They cant go the direction the are going for many reasons. But specifically, lets talk about what powerful APUs do to their GPU division. Cut off the nose despite the face, ever heard of that saying?
There is no way around it.

It is a mess. Anyone hoping a big company buys AMD should know that the result would be very different than they imagine. I just dont believe the situation will be pretty. It will not remain the same, like it is. AMD will be completely gutted

 

[soccerballtux]

if they aren't giving AMD money for the xb1 CPUs AMD looks like it's in even worse shape than it was