[Kitguru] Microsoft might be interested in buying AMD

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,418
2,740
136
In a bid to revive its chip design operations, Microsoft Corp. may acquire Advanced Micro Devices, according to a source familiar with the matter. The software giant approached AMD several months ago, the source indicated. The result of the talks is unclear.

Microsoft Corp. has been selling game consoles for over ten years now and back in 2006 the firm even formed a division to design chips for its products, primarily game consoles. While this internal group has clearly developed some chips for Microsoft’s hardware, the company used chips designed by Advanced Micro Devices and Nvidia Corp. for its Xbox One consoles and Zune players, respectively. As it appears, Microsoft’s own chip design team cannot really develop competitive solutions for the company’s devices and in order to make its chip operations viable.

The details about negotiations are unclear, just like Microsoft’s exact proposal to AMD. However, since Microsoft has $95.3 billion in cash, whereas AMD’s market capitalization right now is $1.81 billion, the software giant may buy AMD relatively easily. In fact, current value of AMD is three times lower than the company paid for ATI Technologies in 2006.

Analysts estimate that Microsoft pays around $100 for every Xbox One system-on-chip to AMD. Life-to-date sales of Xbox One are around are around 12.6 million units, which means that Microsoft has already paid AMD around $1.26 billion for Xbox One chips. The acquisition of AMD could save it around a billion per year on Xbox One chips alone. It the company develops appropriate chips for smartphones and tablets, Microsoft’s savings could be even higher.

It is necessary to note that Microsoft does not really need AMD. The software giant needs system-on-chips to power its Xbox game consoles, Lumia smartphones, Surface tablets and possibly other hardware devices. It does not really need server processors or high-end graphics cards. However, AMD’s management will unlikely sell a part of AMD to Microsoft since its accelerated processing units (what Microsoft needs) are based on technologies developed for server microprocessors and high-end graphics cards.

The battle for video game console space is very strong. If Microsoft bought AMD, then Sony would be faced with a bad set of choices: put money in Microsoft’s pocket every time it sells a PlayStation, or try to create an entirely new platform by using technologies from Intel, Nvidia, ARM or Imagination Technologies.

Since game consoles is an important business for Microsoft, the company naturally wants to make sure that its technology provider does not go bankrupt or is acquired by a competitor. For example, if Samsung takes over AMD and builds-in its APUs into its TVs, it will automatically become a major player in the market of video games.

AMD and Microsoft did not comment on the news-story.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/a...erested-to-buy-advanced-micro-devices-source/
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Same old news when the trouble lurks.

So what, Samsung, Chinese, Xilinx, Mubala, Qualcomm and now Microsoft is to buy AMD?
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
Hmm, have to admit, did not see this coming.

But it makes a lot of sense because MS is devoted to consoles & mobiles and expanding its ecosystem. They definitely could use an in-house CPU/GPU development team.

AMD is chump change to MS, like Samsung & Apple, are huge enough and have portfolios that benefit from CPU/GPUs.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
I wonder if competition law would allow this to happen. But, very interesting if it did happen.

If they did, I wonder if they would shut down the APU business?
 

Flapdrol1337

Golden Member
May 21, 2014
1,677
93
91
Analysts estimate that Microsoft pays around $100 for every Xbox One system-on-chip to AMD. Life-to-date sales of Xbox One are around are around 12.6 million units, which means that Microsoft has already paid AMD around $1.26 billion for Xbox One chips. The acquisition of AMD could save it around a billion per year on Xbox One chips alone.

Kitguru seems to think tsmc fabs for free.

Really, this rumor is ridiculous, amd makes nothing that would fit any of the microsoft phones or tablets or anything else really. Only the xbone.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Ye their math is completely out of touch with reality (But so is the rest of the article.). Basicly they claim AMD earn 250M$ per quarter just on Xbox chips. And you can assume another 250M$ from PS4 as well using their "logic".

That would mean the entire semicustom business is profit and zero cost.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,418
2,740
136
Hmm, have to admit, did not see this coming.

But it makes a lot of sense because MS is devoted to consoles & mobiles and expanding its ecosystem. They definitely could use an in-house CPU/GPU development team.

AMD is chump change to MS, like Samsung & Apple, are huge enough and have portfolios that benefit from CPU/GPUs.
Yes, I see AMD as a more 'natural' fit to MS business than all the other contenders. Basically due to the fact that such an acquisition would have immediate benefit to MS manufacturing costs of XBone alone to make it worthwhile. Others would have to spend quite a bit of time reconfiguring AMDs operations into their business.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
Yes, I see AMD as a more 'natural' fit to MS business than all the other contenders. Basically due to the fact that such an acquisition would have immediate benefit to MS manufacturing costs of XBone alone to make it worthwhile. Others would have to spend quite a bit of time reconfiguring AMDs operations into their business.

Yep, and Surface Pros are very popular, if Zen lives up to the hype, a Zen APU would be killer for such a platform.

There's windows phones & so many tablets as well, currently using mostly Intel Atoms.

MS has a tremendous porfolio that could take advantage of AMD's tech/IP. It's strange how we often here about mergers, acquisitions etc that goes for so many billions, yet, AMD is valued at chump change to these giants.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,930
4,991
136
Looks like AMD is becoming a really "tasty" on the market. There can be two reasons why companies are wanting to buy them.

Or they are in big trouble. Or they have technology that will shine in couple of years, and are on ascending stage of their business. Time will only tell what will happen.

For example Samsung wanted to buy AMD for one person: Jim Keller. Father of Swift, and Cyclone CPUs in iPhones and AMD Zen.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
AMD has been in trouble for a LONG time. If people wanted to buy it cos they are cheap IP, they could have done so ages ago.

I think AMD's future is very bright, something you couldn't have even considered not long ago. HBM2. Zen. GCN2. Combine that into a range of APUs up to 200W with awesome CPU & GPU performance. dGPU market mid-range & below = DEAD.

"Oh, why would you buy a CPU for GPU performance, when you can just add a stronger dGPU?"

Dx12 is multi-GPU aware at its core. No longer would your iGPU be useless. A strong iGPU will increase gaming performance on a dGPU setup. Hmm!
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
What is used in current consoles? Specifically XBoxOne? Are they APUs? or far smaller SoCs?

Actually they are far larger SOCs.

Custom APU with beefed up iGPU. PS4 is a 7870 crammed on a SOC.

It's a shame AMD never made any of those custom APUs (or similar designs) as BGA for custom PC builds, mITX, slim builds etc.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,170
13
81
There is no point until they solve the memory bandwidth problem. Even a 7750 equivalent Kaveri is bandwidth starved.
They've already solved the bandwidth issue. It's called HBM. What they need now is to incorporate it into their entire product line.
 

therealnickdanger

Senior member
Oct 26, 2005
987
2
0
2000 - Sun:
http://www.murc.ws/showthread.php?8332-Sun-To-Buy-AMD

2003 - Microsoft:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1001268/what-would-happen-if-microsoft-bought-amd

2003 - Microsoft of IBM:
http://www.geek.com/chips/should-microsoft-or-ibm-buy-amd-551416/

2012 - Various:
http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=69&doc_id=1286412

2013:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...croprocessors_Lose_Share_to_ARM_Analysts.html

2014 - Qualcomm:
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing-components/processors/should-qualcomm-buy-amd--1259643

I'm certain I can find plenty more by spending more than 3 minutes on Google, but you get the point.

Honestly the best move AMD ever made was buying ATI and the best move ATI ever made was buying ArtX. Getting the complete and total LOCK on the millions and millions of consoles sold globally was a gamble that is certainly helping them stay afloat. The margins might be thin, but the revenue keeps them relevant.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/858/14
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1145794
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
They've already solved the bandwidth issue. It's called HBM. What they need now is to incorporate it into their entire product line.

Easier said than done obviously. Even on a premium 650.00 dgpu they were only able to add 4gb. And an igp, never mind one with HBM is conspicuously missing in Zen until at least 2017.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
What is used in current consoles? Specifically XBoxOne? Are they APUs? or far smaller SoCs?

They are technically APUs, but they aren't sold to the public. At least, all of AMDs SoCs are also APUs. But not all APUs are SoCs if that makes sense.

So, the point is, maybe it would only be economical for AMD to continue making APUs for their semi custom customers, such as Microsoft's XBox One. They make a profit on the Xbox One, but they either barely make a profit on APUs, or make no profit.

Its not whether they would stop manufacturing APUs - clearly MS still needs them - its whether they would bother selling the manufactured APUs to consumers like ourselves.

The other thing to remember is that they could integrate 3rd party IP into their APUs, like they are already doing with ARM CPU cores and Zen. So, lets say that in 2020 Microsoft launches the Xbox Two - just because AMD no longer design CPU cores, does not mean they cannot make APUs. They could make an APU with ARM CPU cores and Radeon graphics.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
2000 - Sun:
http://www.murc.ws/showthread.php?8332-Sun-To-Buy-AMD

2003 - Microsoft:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1001268/what-would-happen-if-microsoft-bought-amd

2003 - Microsoft of IBM:
http://www.geek.com/chips/should-microsoft-or-ibm-buy-amd-551416/

2012 - Various:
http://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=69&doc_id=1286412

2013:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...croprocessors_Lose_Share_to_ARM_Analysts.html

2014 - Qualcomm:
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing-components/processors/should-qualcomm-buy-amd--1259643

I'm certain I can find plenty more by spending more than 3 minutes on Google, but you get the point.

Honestly the best move AMD ever made was buying ATI and the best move ATI ever made was buying ArtX. Getting the complete and total LOCK on the millions and millions of consoles sold globally was a gamble that is certainly helping them stay afloat. The margins might be thin, but the revenue keeps them relevant.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/858/14
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1145794


Yea, buying ATI was a great move. That is why the market value of the combined companies is 1/3 of what they paid for ATI alone, not even counting for inflation.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
Yea, buying ATI was a great move. That is why the market value of the combined companies is 1/3 of what they paid for ATI alone, not even counting for inflation.

I think it was a good idea, but executed poorly.

It wasn't buying AMD that sunk the company, it was things like always being late to market and Bulldozer being so bad.

I also think they executed on APUs are slower than they should have. It took them far too long to realize any value from the acquisition of ATI. Its only within the last year or so that it has started to show any value.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Microsoft buying AMD would be interesting. Sticks it to Sony. I doubt MSFT is in a rush back into chips and stuff after they've hemorrhaged so much money from their last attempt at crafting their own chips (360 is mainly MSFT's fault for not listening to ATI in how to fab the chip they bought).

Also, would they get the X86 license? I don't think Intel would be too happy with that. Suddenly Surface Pro come with MSFT CPUs. Woof.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
Apple does full vertical integration. Apple iPads run Apple iOS and use Apple SoCs. Imagine a Microsoft Surface running Windows and using a MS SoC.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Apple does full vertical integration. Apple iPads run Apple iOS and use Apple SoCs. Imagine a Microsoft Surface running Windows and using a MS SoC.

Yeah, if I go by their last attempt, it would overheat and die. Haha. :awe:
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
I am not sure anti-trust regulations would allow a one company to buy the sole supplier for their competitors.

But this just seems like another random rumor anyway, one that will never come to pass. If someone were to buy AMD, seems more likely it would be Samsung or one of the other ARM giants.