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"Killing is [morally] fine" Discuss

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Is Killing fine?

  • Yes

  • No

  • In self defence

Results are only viewable after voting.
neckarb said:
And that would be an absolutely fair argument. Something I've considered time and time again, but either way neither argument condones the statement "Killing is fine" I personally believe that raising and killing animals for food is a necessary evil purely because the animals would not continue as a species without it and the demand for meat is so high. It is an evil though, it is not a morally good choice. No killing is moral. In all honesty I feel bad for the fact that I eat meat, I would become a vegetarian if I thought it would make the slightest difference, but when there are people with rifles killing coyotes out there I think that is an issue that needs addressing first.
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I think both condone the statement "killing is fine." Also, the fact that a vegetarian lifestyle would require land to grow food, it would necessarily destroy habitat and lead to more conflicts between man and animal, causing in the instances where man has to kill in self-defense. You cannot live on this planet and get away from killing and death, it's just impossible. Killing can also not be fine, but overwhelmingly on this planet, killing is fine and the instances where it is not justified are pretty rare.
 
neckarb said:
That's a valid point, but I would argue there is a huge difference between institutionalised killing of animals for food and an individual killing animals for no good reason.

Institutionally rearing animals for food, is one of the reason that animals like cows are not going extinct any time soon.

I'm English, from England.
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So killing an animal so you can eat it, even though there are alternatives available, is a good reason. Because you like the taste of meat, it is fine to kill an animal when you could survive on vegetables.

But someone protecting his livlihood by killing a predator that is responsible for killing some of those food-animals is a 'no good reason' becuase there are alternatives availble (even though those alternatives are not as effective, much more labor intensive, and more costly)?

So you choose to support an industry that kills animals just because you like the way they taste more than salad, and that's fine. Someone shoots a coyote that is killing his chickens (or his neighbor's I think) and you have a problem with it because shooting it is the easy way out? You are a hypocrite.
 
killing people is not fine.
It's justifiable and necessary for self-defence, war or police action, but it should not be fun for anyone imho.
 
waggy said:
i can agree that killing for fun or "sport" is wrong. I have been hunting since i was 12. We always eat what we shoot. don't take shots unless its a kill shot.
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And that's a far more ethical way to hunt, but I would still say that hunting as a concept is un ethical. I'm not having a go at you because you seem to at least have a head on your shoulders and a valid sense of morality in it, but some people seem to just walk around seeing how much they can kill then posting photos online.
 
we would all starve to death if we didn't kill.

And if we are talking self defense....well let someone break in and test how I feel about it.

I'm all in favor of helping Darin out. He seems to be failing lately.
 
Brigandier said:
I think both condone the statement "killing is fine." Also, the fact that a vegetarian lifestyle would require land to grow food, it would necessarily destroy habitat and lead to more conflicts between man and animal, causing in the instances where man has to kill in self-defense. You cannot live on this planet and get away from killing and death, it's just impossible. Killing can also not be fine, but overwhelmingly on this planet, killing is fine and the instances where it is not justified are pretty rare.
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A very fair point, I need to think about what it is about eating meat that seems more acceptable than hunters killing animals for sport. I definitely think that one is better than the other but I need to think about why.

SlowSpyder said:
So killing an animal so you can eat it, even though there are alternatives available, is a good reason. Because you like the taste of meat, it is fine to kill an animal when you could survive on vegetables.

But someone protecting his livlihood by killing a predator that is responsible for killing some of those food-animals is a 'no good reason' becuase there are alternatives availble (even though those alternatives are not as effective, much more labor intensive, and more costly)?

So you choose to support an industry that kills animals just because you like the way they taste more than salad, and that's fine. Someone shoots a coyote that is killing his chickens (or his neighbor's I think) and you have a problem with it because shooting it is the easy way out? You are a hypocrite.
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No you are right, in this instance my view is somewhat illogical and hypocritical, but for some reason I see a differentiation between the death of an animal for the mass to eat, and individual killing. Perhaps it's based on a Darwinian notion of survival of the fittest or just that one is more socially acceptable it's definitely something i'll be thinking about. Maybe i'll think twice next time I have that steak. I still maintain that hunting should not be considered morally acceptable, or socially acceptable, if alternatives are available (like a chicken coop) and definitely not if the person doing it enjoys it and posts photos online to show off.

Murloc said:
killing people is not fine.
It's justifiable and necessary for self-defence, war or police action, but it should not be fun for anyone imho.
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Agreed.
 
neckarb said:
And that's a far more ethical way to hunt, but I would still say that hunting as a concept is un ethical. I'm not having a go at you because you seem to at least have a head on your shoulders and a valid sense of morality in it, but some people seem to just walk around seeing how much they can kill then posting photos online.
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I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here as well. I am generally against predator hunting. I guess I don't understand why someone would go to Africa to shoot a lion that they are going to do nothing more with than hang it's hide on a wall as a decoration.

But, the OP of the other thread had a clearly stated reason for shooting the coyote, it stole chickens and a cat came up missing, all likely due to the said coyote. That person took the sensible action, he eliminated the pest animal.
 
rudeguy said:
we would all starve to death if we didn't kill.

And if we are talking self defense....well let someone break in and test how I feel about it.

I'm all in favor of helping Darin out. He seems to be failing lately.
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But would we? Vegetarians seem to survive ok..
 
SlowSpyder said:
I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here as well. I am generally against predator hunting. I guess I don't understand why someone would go to Africa to shoot a lion that they are going to do nothing more with than hang it's hide on a wall as a decoration.

But, the OP of the other thread had a clearly stated reason for shooting the coyote, it stole chickens and a cat came up missing, all likely due to the said coyote. That person took the sensible action, he eliminated the pest animal.
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But I would still argue that killing the pest animal is the last resort, not the first response.
 
rudeguy said:
Are the factories that make their food staffed only by bark eaters? What about the truck drivers that haul it around?

Don't be so small minded. Admit when you are wrong and move on.
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I'm not wrong, if the world stopped eating meat we would survive.

Admit when you are wrong and move on.
 
rudeguy said:
Oh shut up. Without the US, you would be from Germany.
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A brilliant argument about eating meat. Just the kind of logic I expected from someone like you 😉

On a side note, the Nazi's wouldn't have moved all of the English to germany if they had won the war, neither would they have renamed england to germany.

I'd still be from England 😉

Try again next time.
 
rudeguy said:
Are the factories that make their food staffed only by bark eaters? What about the truck drivers that haul it around?

Don't be so small minded. Admit when you are wrong and move on.
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I have also read that hundreds of thousands of animals are killed by the harvesting and processing of crops. I don't have any links handy, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.

The simple fact is that everything we do impacts other parts of nature. How many animals have been killed in mining coal for power, oil spills so he can drive, or materials to build the computer so he can post about coyotes rights? But somehow he thinks shooting a pest animal for killing chickens and a cat is a problem worth whining about?
 
neckarb said:
A brilliant argument about eating meat. Just the kind of logic I expected from someone like you 😉

On a side note, the Nazi's wouldn't have moved all of the English to germany if they had won the war, neither would they have renamed england to germany.

I'd still be from England 😉

Try again next time.
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you're the one who got pissy about someone calling you British.

Eating meat is normal. If you chose not to eat meat, I don't give a shit.

I thought this thread was about killing? Or are you trying to derail your own thread since your argument has been proven invalid?
 
neckarb said:
But I would still argue that killing the pest animal is the last resort, not the first response.
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Most pests aren't coyotes, coyotes are at the top of the pest totem pole. Rodents are nothing more than running, destructive food for other animals. Coyotes are not only problems in the country, they are problems in the city too. When I lived in Colorado, you could hear them yipping in the suburbs. Large pest populations and bountiful trash are the reasons. All these factors can lead to diseases, property destruction, pet loss, etc. And these pests will all end up getting killed, by disease, by a car, by another animal, by injury, etc. You can never protect the pests, even by letting them do what they want.

Fences help, but a fence doesn't stop 100 % of the animals 100% of the time. My mom's chickens only seem to die when they're locked up in the coop, some animals will figure out a way to food a fence be damned.

And lol to the guy that said coyote was alpha hunter. Ask a wolf or cougar if it thinks the coyote is an alpha hunter.
 
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