Killing Bin Laden

[MomentsofSanity]

You want names? I haven't kept a tally, just a minor observation on a couple message boards and on tv/radio. In this thread I tend to think monovillage and momentofsanity probably think Bush and those under him deserve no credit, but I could be wrong... I don't keep track of who says what on here in previous postings.

When I see people say Obama gets FULL credit I take that to mean he deserves all of the credit.

Can't speak for monovillage but I think there is plenty of credit to go around. I just laugh at the partisan hacks who blame Obama for everything that's bad and refuse to acknowledge any credit for anything that succeeds. Amazing how nothing he has done has gone right, except the things that have and it's someone else who deserves the praise.

 

[cwjerome]

Can't speak for monovillage but I think there is plenty of credit to go around. I just laugh at the partisan hacks who blame Obama for everything that's bad and refuse to acknowledge any credit for anything that succeeds. Amazing how nothing he has done has gone right, except the things that have and it's someone else who deserves the praise.

That's good to hear, I know it was a team effort.

I would agree that those who cannot give Obama any credit on anything are just as bad as the people I describe in my first post.

 

[Doppel]

Great read, even though I'm normally tired of reading about this.

This is going to make a really awesome movie. This was really the only great thing Obama has done so far, IMO.

He didn't do it, but as that article mentions, he staked his presidency--to some degree--on this, he'd have taken the heat if it screwed up, to a large degree. It could have gone terribly. Imagine if a dozen guys has died in some ridiculous firefight with the Pakistanis or even a helicopter crash plus nobody was in that compound in sovereign territory, the news would have chewed him up in either case.

The helicopter crash was bad luck and possibly a fault of planning, not anticipating the flight characteristics around a wall (maybe they should have), but they made the right call making it a special ops mission, the right call not telling Pakistan, right call having backup troops, etc. This is why it will be such a good movie.

 

[Moonbeam]

Self-hate led you to this conclusion.

No, but yours made you want to attack the messenger. Truth is irritating, otherwise everybody would know it.

 

[IronWing]

I don't believe a word of it. It would be absolutely stupid to kill Bin Laden. The government I see would fake his death and and torture him for information is a clandestine prison somewhere.

I kind of looked at it the other way. I am surprised the government admitted to killing Bin Laden. He was the best thing since sliced bread. More military funding? Sure, Bin Laden's out there. More DHS funding? Sure, Bin Laden is under the bed! Need to further abuse the Constitution, torture folks, kidnap and murder people? Go for it, Bin Laden is on the loose!

My own conspiratorial thoughts were that Bin Laden died years ago and Bush kept dragging out his ghost just to keep spirits up.











That last part there... that's a joke, I say, that's a joke, son.

 

[Moonbeam]

I kind of looked at it the other way. I am surprised the government admitted to killing Bin Laden. He was the best thing since sliced bread. More military funding? Sure, Bin Laden's out there. More DHS funding? Sure, Bin Laden is under the bed! Need to further abuse the Constitution, torture folks, kidnap and murder people? Go for it, Bin Laden is on the loose!

My own conspiratorial thoughts were that Bin Laden died years ago and Bush kept dragging out his ghost just to keep spirits up.

Well if he were already dead then you have to say Obama was quite clever to kill his ghost. Maybe before the next election Obama will send a team to Argentina and kill Hitler.

 

[IronWing]

Well if he were already dead then you have to say Obama was quite clever to kill his ghost.

True that. The Bushies couldn't exactly come out and say "Obama didn't have Lin Laden killed as we killed Bin Laden years ago".

Maybe before the next election Obama will send a team to Argentina and kill Hitler.

I thought Reagan already covered that ground.

 

[JTsyo]

[FONT=&quot]The New Yorker puts together interviews of Team 6 members who went in for Bin Laden. Definitely is worth a reading:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle?currentPage=all

What's with the date on that article? When is it from?

 

[BeauJangles]

What's with the date on that article? When is it from?

Pretty sure it was published a few days ago. Dunno why the date is screwy.

 

[JTsyo]

Guessing it's dated for the next magazine release date.

 

[Phokus]

Actually, this is all due to Bush(43).

The same Bush who closed down the CIA unit tasked to hunt down bin laden? The same Bush who said he didn't care about Osama? You're retarded:

http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/bush-closed-unit-to-hunt-down-bin-laden-in-2005/1498/

Obama deserves a SHIT ton of credit for choosing the surgical strike rather than flattening an entire city just to kill Osama as Gates had pressured Obama to do. (also for reversing Bush's policy of 'not giving a shit about Bin Laden' once he got into office and made it a #1 priority)

On March 29th, McRaven brought the plan to Obama. The President’s military advisers were divided. Some supported a raid, some an airstrike, and others wanted to hold off until the intelligence improved. Robert Gates, the Secretary of Defense, was one of the most outspoken opponents of a helicopter assault. Gates reminded his colleagues that he had been in the Situation Room of the Carter White House when military officials presented Eagle Claw—the 1980 Delta Force operation that aimed at rescuing American hostages in Tehran but resulted in a disastrous collision in the Iranian desert, killing eight American soldiers. “They said that was a pretty good idea, too,” Gates warned. He and General James Cartwright, the vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs, favored an airstrike by B-2 Spirit bombers. That option would avoid the risk of having American boots on the ground in Pakistan. But the Air Force then calculated that a payload of thirty-two smart bombs, each weighing two thousand pounds, would be required to penetrate thirty feet below ground, insuring that any bunkers would collapse. “That much ordnance going off would be the equivalent of an earthquake,” Cartwright told me. The prospect of flattening a Pakistani city made Obama pause. He shelved the B-2 option and directed McRaven to start rehearsing the raid.

 

[a777pilot]

What I find interesting about all of this is that General Jim "Hoss" Cartwright was a student of mine when he was a Captain and I a Major. That was VT-23, TRAWING TWO, NAS Kingsville, TX.......many years ago. I remember him being an outstanding pilot.

 

[a777pilot]

The same Bush who closed down the CIA unit tasked to hunt down bin laden? The same Bush who said he didn't care about Osama? You're retarded:

http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/bush-closed-unit-to-hunt-down-bin-laden-in-2005/1498/

Obama deserves a SHIT ton of credit for choosing the surgical strike rather than flattening an entire city just to kill Osama as Gates had pressured Obama to do. (also for reversing Bush's policy of 'not giving a shit about Bin Laden' once he got into office and made it a #1 priority)

That's funny.

 

[Binarycow]

What I find interesting about all of this is that General Jim "Hoss" Cartwright was a student of mine when he was a Captain and I a Major. That was VT-23, TRAWING TWO, NAS Kingsville, TX.......many years ago. I remember him being an outstanding pilot.

so was he an overachiever or you an under... nevermind

thx for serving or have served.

 

[Phokus]

That's funny.

You giving Bush credit for killing Bin laden, when he publicly said he didn't care about him and closed the CIA group tasked to hunting him down is DEFINITELY funny (and sad).

 

[a777pilot]

so was he an overachiever or you an under... nevermind

thx for serving or have served.

He was/is an outstanding Marine and Officer. He did great things. I am proud to have served with him

Compared to him, well, I'm not even in the same league.

As for your thanks, it's appreciated but not necessary. It was my honor to serve my country as one of her Marines.

 

[a777pilot]

You giving Bush credit for killing Bin laden, when he publicly said he didn't care about him and closed the CIA group tasked to hunting him down is DEFINITELY funny (and sad).

True. Think it through....what I said. Think it through.

 

[Phokus]

True. Think it through....what I said. Think it through.

I'm guessing you're referring to this part:

he helped plan invading an allied nations sovereignty

If you're trying to equivocate Obama 'invading' Pakistan to Bush's invasions, that's kind of dumb, considering we aren't fighting a long protracted war with Pakistan and are doing surgical strikes there (some with their permission, this one not). The consequences are vastly different. In fact, i think that's what Bush should have done after 9/11, tried a surgical strike against Bin Laden first instead off occupying Afghanistan. The occupation has been a disaster.

 

[a777pilot]

I'm guessing you're referring to this part:



If you're trying to equivocate Obama 'invading' Pakistan to Bush's invasions, that's kind of dumb, considering we aren't fighting a long protracted war with Pakistan and are doing surgical strikes there (some with their permission, this one not). The consequences are vastly different. In fact, i think that's what Bush should have done after 9/11, tried a surgical strike against Bin Laden first instead off occupying Afghanistan. The occupation has been a disaster.

You're getting there. Well done.

 

[Phokus]

You're getting there. Well done.

Like i said, it's nothing alike. Bush invaded Iraq on BULLSHIT intel and he reportedly wanted to take down Iraq even before 9/11. It's really questionable that Afghanistan needed to have a full scale occupation (and the pathetic thing is, we pretty much let Osama escape). Obama had CREDIBLE intel on the location of someone who ACTUALLY attacked the United states. You couldn't make a worse comparison dude.

 

[a777pilot]

Like i said, it's nothing alike. Bush invaded Iraq on BULLSHIT intel and he reportedly wanted to take down Iraq even before 9/11. It's really questionable that Afghanistan needed to have a full scale occupation (and the pathetic thing is, we pretty much let Osama escape). Obama had CREDIBLE intel on the location of someone who ACTUALLY attacked the United states. You couldn't make a worse comparison dude.

Why do you think the US invaided Iraq? what you just stated make no sense. As for Afghanistan, you could not be more correct....Bush screwed up and let UBL get away. e should have departed Afghanistan within weeks of the failed attack on Tora Bora.

I've said for years now the two countries the United States ought be in to conduct this muslim war are Pakistan (NO! I do not mean an invasion.) and Iraq. Why? Because the center of gravity of this muslim war is now and always has been Iran.

 

[Phokus]

Why do you think the US invaided Iraq? what you just stated make no sense. As for Afghanistan, you could not be more correct....Bush screwed up and let UBL get away. e should have departed Afghanistan within weeks of the failed attack on Tora Bora.

I've said for years now the two countries the United States ought be in to conduct this muslim war are Pakistan (NO! I do not mean an invasion.) and Iraq. Why? Because the center of gravity of this muslim war is now and always has been Iran.

Because Bush wanted to. The lies and dishonest insinuation that Iraq had WMD's and a connection to 9/11 was just political theater to fool the American people into Bush fulfilling his dream of being a 'war president' (There was also that, 'Saddam tried to kill my daddy!' angle too).

LOL "muslim war" you are fucking crazy. Invade Iraq and Pakistan just so we could get at Iran? You're even WORSE than Bush.

Edit: I also want to add that if Obama had done something like Bush did (publicly saying he didn't care about Bin laden and dismantling the group responsible for hunting him down), Republicans would be drafting up the impeachement papers in a blink of an eye and calling him a treasonous bastard, if you had an honest bone in your body.

 

[zefyx]

What a great read, thank you OP.

 

[davmat787]

I read from time to time that Bush closed down the CIA's group hunting for OBL. However, we recently read that "John" guy from the CIA who was outed has been on the hunt for OBL from the get go, and possibly one of the single most important players in the hunt. So what gives?

 

[sarsipias1234]

Killing a human being, for whatever reason, is to act uncivilized.

Every time a human being is purposely killed this has a profound negative impact that is often ignored.

We are slowly killing any degree of cilivization we have left in the world by killing human beings on purpose.