Kids on ADHD drugs score higher on tests

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

So basically you don't have any background at all, but feel qualified to render an opinion. My opinion based on my education, practice and experience is that it's real. No doubt there ARE cases where it's misdiagnosed, however that doesn't mean it's bogus.

You being an adult, I really dont care what you do in your personal life. I am against the children who dont want to do thier homework being force-fed some of the most powerful stimulants on the planet. I have seen people get screwed up pretty bad by Ritalin, adderall, etc.

I'm against the same thing. I also am against causing people who have genuine problems suffering because someone got screwed up. You might as well say that because opiates are abused, people need to deal with pain no matter how bad it is. All in the head you know.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SammyJr


That's actually typical ADHD behavior. A person with ADHD can easily focus on things that interest them for hours. The problem is when confronted with a task that doesn't fit that mold, like much school work, house work, job duties, etc. They have extreme difficulty focusing on those sorts of things.

I think that most "underachievers" have a degree of ADHD.

The describes just about everybody I know, including myself.

Of course it does because all young children could be considered ADHD because they only want to do the things that please them. It has always been this way except when I was a kid good parenting and discipline was the order of the day but these days it is much more convenient to diagnose it as a "disease" and then medicate. It also artificially removes the burden of responsibility off the parents as it is now a disease that is causing the problems.

 

[child of wonder]

At age 3 1/2 my son began having a harder and harder time staying out of trouble at day care. He would behave erratically and impulsively despite our continued and consistent discipline. Yes, this is not unusual for a young child. However, when compared to other kids at the center, even his 2 year old sister, his behavior concerned the daycare employees the most. A typical day would include him refusing to follow directions, not participating in group activities, biting other kids, fighting, wandering around during story time, and more.

I know what some of you are thinking -- "you clearly are inferior parents and weren't doing your job. Put your kid in his place."

We tried and tried and tried. We brought him to a pediatrician who specialized in child behavior. He had several tips for us and was also amazed at our son's intuitiveness and curiousity. We tried his suggestions for months. After things didn't improve, he suggested a counselor. We took our son there for about 2 months. Again, no noticeable improvement.

More months went by along with a few more visits to the pediatrician. Our son, Calvin, had a late August birthday and as age 5 approached, we had to decide whether to enroll him in Kindergarten. Since his daycare acted as a de facto preschool, it was our hope that a new environment with new material to learn would keep him better focused and, thus, improve his behavior.

Unfortunately, this was not to be the case. After 2 months of struggles in Kindergarten we were referred to a psychologist. We took Calvin to see her approx. twice a month for several months. She tried behavior modification therapies and gave us ideas to continue her work at home. We saw a slight improvement but there were days he was still spending more time in the office than the classroom.

Next thought for those who don't have kids -- "your kid is a bad apple." Again, Calvin is one of the most caring and loving little guys I've ever been around and that's not simple parental bias. Many, many people have echoed the same sentiment.

It's likely that I have ADHD. I've struggled with attention issues my whole life. I have never been medicated and had similar opinions towards ADHD drugs that OCGuy and some others do. I did not want my son on some kind of mind altering substance. I wanted him to develop restraint and discipline.

My wife and I worked tirelessly to improve his behavior without drugs. We stressed to every health professional we spoke to that we wanted to exhaust all other forms of treatment before considering drugs. After 18 months, we finally agreed to have a specialist spend 4 hours with Calvin to test him for ADHD. Not surprisingly, the test was positive.

Calvin is in 1st grade and has been on Concerta for 4 months now. We noticed an IMMEDIATE improvement with his behavior and performance both at home and school. 95% of his discipline issues have vanished and he has rapidly established himself as one of the more gifted students in his grade. His teacher has recommended he be tested to be placed in an accelerated learning program for gifted students now that his behavior is under control.

It is our hope that Calvin can be weened off the medication as he gets older and can learn to control his impulsiveness. As the specialist pointed out, Calvin has all the tools to make correct decisions but his brain would put thoughts into action without the aid of any kind of reasoning filter.

Anyway, as a parent who endured a very long struggle to prevent medicating my child I thought it apt to share my experience that ADHD is a real condition. It is definitely over diagnosed and over-medicated, but that doesn't mean the condition doesn't exist or can be a real problem for those that suffer from it.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Adderall does not make someone high. It usually has two effects on people. Either it increases concentration so their thoughts don't wander or it slows down their thinking and calms them so they can focus. I have seen people that are almost put to sleep by taking adderall. For me I take adderall for EDS. I have tried about every other option from nutrition to exercise, none of them worked. I then tried provigil and ritalin. Neither had any effect. Finally I had a doctor that said lets try something old, amphetamines. It worked, and it worked well. Can I function without it ? Sure I can. But its a miserable day when I do because I constantly want to sit down and go to sleep and it is hard for me to sit watching a movie because I feel like I need to get up and do something , can't sit still.

It really is a miracle drug for me.

For children I do think they prescribe it too young. It is hard to tell in young children what is a medical problem and what is not. I can't say whether a child should be on the drug or not because I am not a doctor.

I think the reason children score higher when taking it is because it is a stimulant. Anyone who takes a test is going to do better when wide awake vs groggy. Lots of children do not get proper sleep , they stay up all night then go to bed, sleep 5 hours and go to school. Of course a stimulant will make a difference in test, even a cup of coffee would.


Adderall xr also just went generic this month, so it has become cheaper to take.

Thanks for sharing. For those who doesn't have first hand experience with ADD/ADHD or the drug and bash the disorder or the drug should shut the f up. ADD/ADHD is real, people who have it and their family do suffer from it. My first son was diagnosed with ADD and the child care refused to take him in when he was young. There is a clear difference between him and his brother, and we spent huge amount of time and energy to help in everyway. Right now, he is 9 and not on drug. he does okay in general, and very well in certain subject that he likes. I will probably not going to have him on drug unless the situation is out of control, so far it has not, thank god. But I would love to hear first hand experience on how drug can help, just to understand what are the options out there.

For those who doesn't have first experience dealing with ADD, we already have to deal with the discrimination and the work that comes with ADD, we don't need your bashing and useless comments, so shut the f up.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
At age 3 1/2 my son began having a harder and harder time staying out of trouble at day care. He would behave erratically and impulsively despite our continued and consistent discipline. Yes, this is not unusual for a young child. However, when compared to other kids at the center, even his 2 year old sister, his behavior concerned the daycare employees the most. A typical day would include him refusing to follow directions, not participating in group activities, biting other kids, fighting, wandering around during story time, and more.

I know what some of you are thinking -- "you clearly are inferior parents and weren't doing your job. Put your kid in his place."

We tried and tried and tried. We brought him to a pediatrician who specialized in child behavior. He had several tips for us and was also amazed at our son's intuitiveness and curiousity. We tried his suggestions for months. After things didn't improve, he suggested a counselor. We took our son there for about 2 months. Again, no noticeable improvement.

More months went by along with a few more visits to the pediatrician. Our son, Calvin, had a late August birthday and as age 5 approached, we had to decide whether to enroll him in Kindergarten. Since his daycare acted as a de facto preschool, it was our hope that a new environment with new material to learn would keep him better focused and, thus, improve his behavior.

Unfortunately, this was not to be the case. After 2 months of struggles in Kindergarten we were referred to a psychologist. We took Calvin to see her approx. twice a month for several months. She tried behavior modification therapies and gave us ideas to continue her work at home. We saw a slight improvement but there were days he was still spending more time in the office than the classroom.

Next thought for those who don't have kids -- "your kid is a bad apple." Again, Calvin is one of the most caring and loving little guys I've ever been around and that's not simple parental bias. Many, many people have echoed the same sentiment.

It's likely that I have ADHD. I've struggled with attention issues my whole life. I have never been medicated and had similar opinions towards ADHD drugs that OCGuy and some others do. I did not want my son on some kind of mind altering substance. I wanted him to develop restraint and discipline.

My wife and I worked tirelessly to improve his behavior without drugs. We stressed to every health professional we spoke to that we wanted to exhaust all other forms of treatment before considering drugs. After 18 months, we finally agreed to have a specialist spend 4 hours with Calvin to test him for ADHD. Not surprisingly, the test was positive.

Calvin is in 1st grade and has been on Concerta for 4 months now. We noticed an IMMEDIATE improvement with his behavior and performance both at home and school. 95% of his discipline issues have vanished and he has rapidly established himself as one of the more gifted students in his grade. His teacher has recommended he be tested to be placed in an accelerated learning program for gifted students now that his behavior is under control.

It is our hope that Calvin can be weened off the medication as he gets older and can learn to control his impulsiveness. As the specialist pointed out, Calvin has all the tools to make correct decisions but his brain would put thoughts into action without the aid of any kind of reasoning filter.

Anyway, as a parent who endured a very long struggle to prevent medicating my child I thought it apt to share my experience that ADHD is a real condition. It is definitely over diagnosed and over-medicated, but that doesn't mean the condition doesn't exist or can be a real problem for those that suffer from it.

I was the same growing up, except my parents used their slippers to keep me in line...

As euro pretentious as this may sound, americans are stereotyped as the people that use pills rather than punishment to keep their kids in line.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: halik

I was the same growing up, except my parents used their slippers to keep me in line...

As euro pretentious as this may sound, americans are stereotyped as the people that use pills rather than punishment to keep their kids in line.

That's exactly what we wanted to avoid.

However, all the beatings in the world can't make someone's brain produce chemicals differently.

 

[Fox5]

Do you all have ADHD or something? From what I got out of the article, the conclusion was that kids diagnosed with ADHD did better on drugs than off, but that kids without ADHD still did better.


BTW, I supposedly have both ADHD and asthma. My inhaler doesn't make my breathing difficulties go away (in fact, it somewhat agitates my lungs) and Adderall has no real effect on me. If anything, it makes me sleepy.
Now caffeine pills......oh yeah, that's where it's at, I can't concentrate in the slightest until I've had a few of those.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Do you all have ADHD or something? From what I got out of the article, the conclusion was that kids diagnosed with ADHD did better on drugs than off, but that kids without ADHD still did better.

Say that to the pre-med kids I met during under-grad who would pop their friends' Ritalin before cramming O-Chem...

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: bbdub333
How the fuck can you diagnose a kid that young with ADHD anyway?

No idea, my best friend's brother was diagnosed with it, yet when he comes over to the house, he can play Counter-Strike for 6+ hours without moving.

That's actually typical ADHD behavior. A person with ADHD can easily focus on things that interest them for hours. The problem is when confronted with a task that doesn't fit that mold, like much school work, house work, job duties, etc. They have extreme difficulty focusing on those sorts of things.

I think that most "underachievers" have a degree of ADHD.

that is called being normal.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Taejin

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

So basically you don't have any background at all, but feel qualified to render an opinion. My opinion based on my education, practice and experience is that it's real. No doubt there ARE cases where it's misdiagnosed, however that doesn't mean it's bogus.

You being an adult, I really dont care what you do in your personal life. I am against the children who dont want to do thier homework being force-fed some of the most powerful stimulants on the planet. I have seen people get screwed up pretty bad by Ritalin, adderall, etc.

Basically, you don't have a clue, but you've got personal experience, and since it's your experience, it is statistically significant enough for you to render an opinion others take seriously.

Did I sum it up?

So how much dope do you or a friend/family member take daily to get by?

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: Fox5
Do you all have ADHD or something? From what I got out of the article, the conclusion was that kids diagnosed with ADHD did better on drugs than off, but that kids without ADHD still did better.

Say that to the pre-med kids I met during under-grad who would pop their friends' Ritalin before cramming O-Chem...

Missing my point.
The article was not a comparison of kids on Ritalin versus off.
It was a comparison of kids WITH ADHD on Ritalin versus off. The kids on did better, but still did worse than kids without Ritalin or ADHD.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Taejin

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

So basically you don't have any background at all, but feel qualified to render an opinion. My opinion based on my education, practice and experience is that it's real. No doubt there ARE cases where it's misdiagnosed, however that doesn't mean it's bogus.

You being an adult, I really dont care what you do in your personal life. I am against the children who dont want to do thier homework being force-fed some of the most powerful stimulants on the planet. I have seen people get screwed up pretty bad by Ritalin, adderall, etc.

Basically, you don't have a clue, but you've got personal experience, and since it's your experience, it is statistically significant enough for you to render an opinion others take seriously.

Did I sum it up?

So how much dope do you or a friend/family member take daily to get by?

I'm guessing that you also think anti-depressants are happy pills and not needed.

 

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Taejin

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

So basically you don't have any background at all, but feel qualified to render an opinion. My opinion based on my education, practice and experience is that it's real. No doubt there ARE cases where it's misdiagnosed, however that doesn't mean it's bogus.

You being an adult, I really dont care what you do in your personal life. I am against the children who dont want to do thier homework being force-fed some of the most powerful stimulants on the planet. I have seen people get screwed up pretty bad by Ritalin, adderall, etc.

Basically, you don't have a clue, but you've got personal experience, and since it's your experience, it is statistically significant enough for you to render an opinion others take seriously.

Did I sum it up?

So how much dope do you or a friend/family member take daily to get by?

Uh, my answer to that would be it doesn't matter, since personal experience has no real bearing on what should be a scientific inquiry from people who have a clue, which you obviously don't.

And I can't speak for my friends, but I've never taken any ADHD/ADD related medication.

 

[desy]

ADHD kids usually endup workaholics because they have to put much more effort in to reach the same grades as non.
Micheal Phelps and Einstein were ADHD
I also just described my wife and since ADHD has a inherited component and quite often a birth trauma too, I just described my son.
Since kindergarten we have worked with a skills program which is disipline, self discipline.
Listening, following directions, responding to requests, and ignoring distractions.
This is half of dealing with ADHD, the other half is drugs or natural treatment.

He's now in grade 2 we had him tested after a poor report card , not one grade met expectations. Its now more than 'what are the colours and what is a triangle', reading writing and rithmatic skills were all low.
Testing showed he's above average intelligent :thumbsup:, but two areas below average, speed of decision making and poor working memory, ie list of instructions.
Not wanting to go the ritalin route just yet, some studies show after the 3yr cycle kids are 1 1/2 inch shorter and 5lb lighter among other side effects. I went with fish oil pills, magnesium, and b complex vitamins, also on school days he gets 100mg caffeine pill in the morning. 100mg = 5mg ritalin which is the lowest dosage
http://www.naturalnews.com/z019432.html
Forward a few months later to his next report card, and 2/3s of his grades went up, of the remaining 1/3 ,half of those now have a + beside them and the ones that didn't move up are 'likes working in groups' and that kind of stuff.

So, we will see how the end of yr card turns out, ritalin still could be an option, but if he's coping I'd rather not change him. Even though my wife and I had very good grades through school, I won't put the pressure on him to be an A student. Now that I'm older, a lot of sucessfull peers are guys that did poorly in grade school but had drive or desire and EQ over IQ

 

[Praxis1452]

What's wrong with using drugs to enhance mental ability? And I mean the ability to focus and concentrate on a topic by mental ability. It's not an all encompassing term but I want to extend the idea out there. Mental Doping? LOL

If the parents think that their kids perform better with these drugs and that this benefit outweighs the perceived negative side effects, I'm all for it. Soon we will be able to enhance human ability to a degree that was beyond the realm of possibility. Remember the runner with artificial legs that was more energy efficient? Now the legs are only suited to a specific niche and the person had to have no feet, but in the future we might decide to remove a limb to be better suited at a particular task, or in fact multiple tasks. I think it'll be fun. =D

 

[Dragula22]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
What's wrong with using drugs to enhance mental ability? And I mean the ability to focus and concentrate on a topic by mental ability. It's not an all encompassing term but I want to extend the idea out there. Mental Doping? LOL

If the parents think that their kids perform better with these drugs and that this benefit outweighs the perceived negative side effects, I'm all for it. Soon we will be able to enhance human ability to a degree that was beyond the realm of possibility. Remember the runner with artificial legs that was more energy efficient? Now the legs are only suited to a specific niche and the person had to have no feet, but in the future we might decide to remove a limb to be better suited at a particular task, or in fact multiple tasks. I think it'll be fun. =D

You can applaud the gov't for their successful propaganda against drugs ("Say NO to drugs"). Using drugs for positive/negative effects just have a bad name to it now. Also the performance enhancing drugs atheletes have been using doesn't help.

On another level, it's probably a superiority complex as well. People think the way they were raised is the "better" way and this "I'm better than you" mentality soon transforms into a "let me decide what's best for you" mentality.

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: Dragula22

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
What's wrong with using drugs to enhance mental ability? And I mean the ability to focus and concentrate on a topic by mental ability. It's not an all encompassing term but I want to extend the idea out there. Mental Doping? LOL

If the parents think that their kids perform better with these drugs and that this benefit outweighs the perceived negative side effects, I'm all for it. Soon we will be able to enhance human ability to a degree that was beyond the realm of possibility. Remember the runner with artificial legs that was more energy efficient? Now the legs are only suited to a specific niche and the person had to have no feet, but in the future we might decide to remove a limb to be better suited at a particular task, or in fact multiple tasks. I think it'll be fun. =D

You can applaud the gov't for their successful propaganda against drugs ("Say NO to drugs"). Using drugs for positive/negative effects just have a bad name to it now. Also the performance enhancing drugs atheletes have been using doesn't help.

On another level, it's probably a superiority complex as well. People think the way they were raised is the "better" way and this "I'm better than you" mentality soon transforms into a "let me decide what's best for you" mentality.

I would hardly call the campaign successful. In fact overall it has failed horribly. Drugs are still a huge market in the U.S. The only thing the government has done is driven it underground, in effect, creating the black market for drugs thereby associating drugs with shady dealing etc.

edit: lurker and yeah I kinda agree with the rest.

 

[Pneumothorax]

What I would like to see is a study on non-ADD/ADHD kids comparing mental performance with ADHD/ADD drugs vs placebo. (Of course this will never happen outside regimes like China/North Korea) I was in Med school in the early part of the decade and a decent number of my fellow classmates were supposedly recently "diagnosed" with adult ADD and were taking Ritalin to improve their performance. Now that adderall and the like are out, I'd bet today's med school classes have a higher percentage of people on ADD/ADHD drugs.

 

[theeedude]

Great, we'll have more standardized kids who do better on standardized tests.
Great use of their unique potential to drug them to develop into something they are not.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/t...s_kill_creativity.html

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: SammyJr


That's actually typical ADHD behavior. A person with ADHD can easily focus on things that interest them for hours. The problem is when confronted with a task that doesn't fit that mold, like much school work, house work, job duties, etc. They have extreme difficulty focusing on those sorts of things.

I think that most "underachievers" have a degree of ADHD.

The describes just about everybody I know, including myself.

But most people still do the tasks they dislike or find boring and do well enough. A person with ADHD will either not do the task or do it very poorly and to below their potential.

Honestly, if that is the criteria for ADHD, the majority of America would be on pills.

The majority of america is on pills.

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Great, we'll have more standardized kids who do better on standardized tests.
Great use of their unique potential to drug them to develop into something they are not.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/t...s_kill_creativity.html

How would you judge/measure/get something quantitative to represent some aspect of a child? I'm honestly just wondering.

Drugs don't automatically make you into something you are not. The use of adderall and ritalin for tests and concentration may not be a bad thing at all. It's nice to say that all people are unique, and in many ways people are. But the application of attention and focus to many activities would be useful.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: Fox5
Do you all have ADHD or something? From what I got out of the article, the conclusion was that kids diagnosed with ADHD did better on drugs than off, but that kids without ADHD still did better.

Say that to the pre-med kids I met during under-grad who would pop their friends' Ritalin before cramming O-Chem...

Missing my point.
The article was not a comparison of kids on Ritalin versus off.
It was a comparison of kids WITH ADHD on Ritalin versus off. The kids on did better, but still did worse than kids without Ritalin or ADHD.

They didn't have a group where healthy children got the sick kids' treatment for comparison. That is what my comment was about.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452

Originally posted by: senseamp
Great, we'll have more standardized kids who do better on standardized tests.
Great use of their unique potential to drug them to develop into something they are not.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/t...s_kill_creativity.html

How would you judge/measure/get something quantitative to represent some aspect of a child? I'm honestly just wondering.

Drugs don't automatically make you into something you are not. The use of adderall and ritalin for tests and concentration may not be a bad thing at all. It's nice to say that all people are unique, and in many ways people are. But the application of attention and focus to many activities would be useful.

In majority of cases, it's simply a substitute for proper teaching. Of course it's easier to drug students to behave and pay attention than it is to develop better educational approaches that will get their attention and maintain discipline. Also, standardized tests are good, but they aren't all that good of indicator of what someone learns from a class. I can ace tests all day, but ask me a question about a class I took that I got A+ on, and I probably won't remember, because I was too focused on cramming my short term memory for the test instead of internalizing the concepts.