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Kids and washing hands...

rh71

No Lifer
It never dawned on me until for some reason I thought about it this morning - my boys confirmed to me that no kids wash their hands after rec before going into the lunchroom. This means playing in the dirt, on monkeybars, etc. and then eating finger foods like sandwiches and chicken nuggets. I'm no germ-a-phobe but in this day and age of everyone being careful about allergies and doing what's right, why is it so hard to install a foam-soap dispenser right outside the cafeteria for all the kids walking by? Are you telling me no faculty has thought of this?

Yes, I know - "we grew up like that and we turned out fine". But we were kids and didn't know better. Still disgusting as adults knowing our kids are eating with filthy hands.
 
Still disgusting as adults knowing our kids are eating with filthy hands.

Perceived. Every time you smell shit, it's poo entering your nose.

They're healthier than the rest of us cubicle-dwelling, antisocial, nuke-the-germs-from-orbit adults by a landslide.
 
Playing in dirt is the cleanest thing they'll do. It's their diseasebag playmates that'll do them in.
 
For germs, I'm pretty meh and do agree with the immune system priming idea -- no soy doctoro o professional medico.

All the other shit in the environment though, good luck. Hope you didn't get any paint chips from your dilapidated school with peeling walls on your hands. Lead will just slowly make you retarded so no biggy... oh, I'm sorry, intellectually disabled.
 
That is kinda nasty, never even thought of that. What's even more disgusting is ones that don't wash their hands after going to the bathroom, then they go and touch the monkey bars etc.
 
why is it so hard to install a foam-soap dispenser right outside the cafeteria for all the kids walking by?
More importantly, unless they were forced to, how many of these kids would use it, and would schools really want to deal with the drama I'm sure would ensue if they tried to "enforce" such a behavior on people-today's precious little darlings?

Secondly, what makes you so sure their little hands are getting so germy during recess anway? People seem to think there are all kinds of "horrible germs" where there aren't. There are, for example, way more germs on your toohtbrush than on your toilet seat... I mean, unless your kids' school's playground serves as a dog run during off-hours, chances are what their hands are mostly covered with is plain old "dirt" which (a) isn't horribly contaminated and (b) just gets moved around when you "disinfect" your hands rather than "washing them"...
 
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It's called environmental immunity. Those kids will end up being healthier than the ones that wash their hands every time they touch something.

Environmental immunity literally just means the immune system characteristics that you get from your environment. From what I've gathered there isn't anything substantial actually saying its "better" or that you'll be healthier, its just saying that most of your immune systems "information" came from being exposed to things in your environment. While it seems plausible that it should boost your immune system (there is some evidence that kids growing up on farms do better for instance), it doesn't always work that way.

It'd be better to figure out a way to offer common vaccine like exposure to a broad spectrum somewhat regularly.

Plus, environmental immunity doesn't really matter with stuff like MRSA and the nasty bugs that you actually need to worry about. Likewise, it wasn't environmental immunity that handled stuff like Polio, and its not going to handle stuff like Malaria, Ebola, HIV. I don't think it will even matter with regards to colds or the flu either, as those generally mutate fast enough that unless you got lucky and had a decent immune response triggered fairly recently, its not going to help you much. But simple sanitation measures has shown to have helped profoundly in reducing exposure to a lot of diseases (take various forms of the plague, which are still devastating when they hit us, but by limiting our exposure to it, we've made it almost a non-factor).

Hell look at Africa (and other similar regions of the world where access to clean drinking water, let alone enough clean water to just simply wash your hands regularly, is scarce enough and a major reason why they're at risk of serious disease outbreaks). If environmental immunity was so damn important they wouldn't be getting ravaged by a multitude of diseases (or would have evolved into superhuman beings). I suppose you could argue that with our more limited spectrum of serious disease that more developed places would be the prime place for environmental immunity.

Oh, and I think the point the OP is making is that there are lots of people that specifically need to limit their immune system exposure (and exposure to allergens), and by making it easier for everyone to have access to simple sanitation measure will benefit those kids.

I highly doubt that washing your hands a few times a day will limit the average kids exposure to those things that provide environmental immunity (there's a good chance a lot of the "healthy bacteria" they won't be exposed to at all anyway unless they're in the right environment where those germs are thriving but others are not, a big reason why you're not likely to be any healthier by washing less in typical modern environments). But it could greatly help kids that are at higher risk. Hell it could very well actually provide those kids more environmental immunity by lessening the overall load of things they're exposed to as well as should reduce the overall amount of those in the population (meaning likely weaker strains that immune systems can more readily handle). Much like how even though the flu vaccine has generally pretty limited success (some years better than others), its still important enough to be worthwhile.

Actually, what does the data even say with regards to the flu and significant but not serious illnesses? Are they even rising? I'd guess that they're down significantly from even 50 years ago, and likely just ebb and flow a bit depending on various factors (i.e. population mixing, strains). But look at how an outbreak of just a few people is treated as a major issue now.

That's not to say that its not possible to go overboard. For instance, overexposure to certain cleaning chemicals could very likely make you less healthy. They're finding out that antibacterial sprays in particular are worse (likely because of being inhaled, and causing inflammation of the sinuses and lungs). I know a lot of people that spray Lysol in the air (even though its a surface cleaner).

But then, we really can't say a whole lot for certain, and we're still finding out a lot of things (I think its been shown that you're not too likely to get sick via your mouth, its more your eyes and nose, so keep your hands away from your eyes). There's some belief that we've already killed off a lot of the beneficial bacteria, so even if you stopped washing as much you're just not likely to even be exposed to the good bacteria at this point, but will increase your risk of contracting harmful stuff.

Also relevant for OP - FDA even banned many of the antibacterial soaps last fall.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...bans-19-chemicals-used-in-antibacterial-soaps

I don't think he said it had to be antibacterial soaps. And that's as much because they were shown to be causing actual harm as well as not being any more effective than normal soap. Kinda like how companies are supposed to stop putting those little plastic beads in soaps, since they provide no real benefit for cleanliness, but do provide harm in the waterways.

Yep raise the kids in a sterile bubble then when they get exposed to anything it eats them up alive.

Except that's not true. They're still getting exposed to plenty of diseases. But we also have substantial populations of people that are at serious risk.
 
what's that foam? No water?

Honestly I wouldn't want to have that on my hands and eat it.

What's wrong with a traditional sink with no antibacterial bs?

You can get nasty stuff like worms from dirt, certainly after playing in the dirt hands should be washed.
 
Wall of text.

I don't disagree with anything you said. MRSA was largely due to overuse of antibiotics by the medical community. Vaccines are great. And care should be taken to reduce spread of infection.

That being said, he wanted a foaming soap dispenser outside a cafeteria. If you have dirty hands that does nothing. You aren't actually washing the gunk off your hands. Simply breaking it down a bit more. People seem to have forgotten the concept of detergents and how effective they are when used properly. Instead they just want to smear hand sanitizer all over things or use do a quick rinse with antibiotic soap. It's just no doing what they want it to.

My original comment was largely in jest, but the reality is that people freak out over things when they don't need to. Kids are disease merchants. It's just what they are. They are filthy. Have terrible hygiene and infection control habits. But yet they still live. The human body is pretty freaking resilient.
 
what's that foam? No water?

Honestly I wouldn't want to have that on my hands and eat it.

What's wrong with a traditional sink with no antibacterial bs?

You can get nasty stuff like worms from dirt, certainly after playing in the dirt hands should be washed.

I don't know what's in foam soap that I've used in the past - I just assumed it was effective as an anti-bacterial. I'm asking for whatever is anti-bacterial and practical at the same time. Getting all the kids to use a room & a sink is not time-effective when 4 classes are being ushered into the cafeteria simultaneously.

It was previously mentioned about eyes/nose/mouth transmission. That's how germs enter our body and cause us to get sick. Eating means putting hands to the face and also ingestion of whatever else on your hands they may have picked up even before rec. I'm not asking for a full body condom 100% of the time, christ. All I'm seeing are convenient excuses, but how many of you would go play in the dirt/grass or touch public facilities then go eat a sandwich daily without thinking twice?

I'm questioning why the schools haven't even pondered this. Only 1 person has admitted to not doing so either (I hadn't before yesterday). If the schools have considered this health issue, are they suggesting the same as you non-medical folks - "it's better for them anyway"?

Wash hands before eating... nah, that's not worth consideration at all...
 
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It was previously mentioned about eyes/nose/mouth transmission. That's how germs enter our body and cause us to get sick. Eating means putting hands to the face and also ingestion of whatever else on your hands. I'm not asking for a full body condom 100% of the time, christ. All I'm seeing are convenient excuses, but how many of you would go play in the dirt/grass or whatever other public place then go eat a sandwich daily without thinking twice?
.

Have you ever flown? Have you eaten the pretzels on the plane. Did you wash your hands before eating them? Think of how many surfaces your hands touched and how many hands before them touched those same surfaces before eating them. Have you died yet?

That's all I'm saying. And yes, when I'm hiking or working outside I routinely come in and grab a handful of crackers or chips or a granola bar without washing my hands.
 
More importantly, unless they were forced to, how many of these kids would use it, and would schools really want to deal with the drama I'm sure would ensue if they tried to "enforce" such a behavior on people-today's precious little darlings?

School and childhood are all about setting and reinforcing good habits. No enforcement is necessary, but the option to wash hands before eating should be there.

Have you ever flown? Have you eaten the pretzels on the plane. Did you wash your hands before eating them? Think of how many surfaces your hands touched and how many hands before them touched those same surfaces before eating them. Have you died yet?

That's all I'm saying. And yes, when I'm hiking or working outside I routinely come in and grab a handful of crackers or chips or a granola bar without washing my hands.

Limiting exposure. This is allowed to happen on a daily basis. Seemingly because they don't care.
 
Except that's not true. They're still getting exposed to plenty of diseases. But we also have substantial populations of people that are at serious risk.

What I'm saying is that the OP is better off not worrying about it. They are better off for it in the long run.
 
All I'm seeing are convenient excuses, but how many of you would go play in the dirt/grass or touch public facilities then go eat a sandwich daily without thinking twice?

I used to rub my hand on the counter at the gas station and lick it when the attendant said to be careful because everyone was sick, I did not get the mega AIDS or even the standard flu. I have zero issues with eating while my hands are dirty. Today I was walking around the basement of a high rise building touching pipes that had grease waste pouring out of them and trying to avoid pools of maggot infested grease. What did I do afterwards? Eat. What did I not do? Disinfect anything. Granted I didn't have any visible waste on my hands, that would just be nasty.
 
School and childhood are all about setting and reinforcing good habits. No enforcement is necessary, but the option to wash hands before eating should be there.



Limiting exposure. This is allowed to happen on a daily basis. Seemingly because they don't care.
Here's something else to worry about. If the school gets it's food from a central warehouse, I guarantee the kids are eating out of date food.
 
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